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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
 Posted - May 09 2014 : 10:39:59 AM
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So, I've been doing Kriya Yoga for what... 8 months now? Anyway, I've always been curious about kechari. I always do stage 1 in my meditation. Actually, I've been doing it all day after some point.
A few months ago I tried getting my tongue up there. With the aid of my fingers, it sort of kind of worked, though it made me gag, wasn't comfortable, and always slipped right back out again. The whole thing seemed pretty pointless and I gave up.
Recently I've been playing with my tongue a bit again though and I was surprised. I didn't need my fingers to push my tongue anymore and it doesn't really feel bad. I can enter what I think is stage 2 and get my tongue into a semi-stable position. It does keep slipping back out again, though, and if it doesn't there's soon so much saliva I have to swallow, but it seems to be working better and better the more I do it. There's also a strange taste.
Am I on the right path here? Energetically, I can't really feel anything, it's just that my tongue is now able to do this weird thing and it's kinda fun to play with. I don't see how this would help at all with meditation though instead of just distracting me. How should I approach this? Should I start doing this during meditation, slipping out and putting it back in again all the time, or should I wait until I can keep it there consistently? My guess is that right now I last about 20 seconds, 30 tops. |
Edited by - Zlarp on May 09 2014 10:45:28 AM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2014 : 4:51:34 PM
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it helps. see when someone says they're doing kriya they really mean theyre trying to do kriya. the first time you do kriya correctly you go into samadhi. it takes time to pruify and ease the knots so you can do this. part of kriya is kechari(and its abig part) there is no kriya without kechari
- do tabalya(or snip or whatever) before kriya breaths. eventually you ll be able to stay in it the whole time. i do all my sadhana in kechari ~2.5 hours. |
Edited by - adishivayogi on May 09 2014 5:10:45 PM |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2014 : 4:59:54 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2014 : 10:16:15 PM
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Hi Zlarp,
If you would like to read about my(beginner)experience with Kechari,just to have comparison point,please follow the link EK has provided.Few posts can be found on page 10.
In my modest experience,the time you will be able to hold your tongue there will increase by practice.Same as you,maybe 10 days ago,i wasn't able to hold it in for more than 20-30 sec.I needed fingers to keep it in for more than that.But yesterday i managed to keep it in for 10 min,with maybe 2-3 short brakes,just to swallow saliva.I'm also drooling like a bulldog.According to Ennio,that will go away in a while.
Also when i told Ennio that i can touch uvula now(after doing Talabya Kriya for few weeks), and ask him should i try to get tongue in by pushing it with fingers,he said:"Try by all means. Now very probably it is the right moment."
So i am sticking to it and slowly incorporating Kechari into routine.My view is that it's better to practice it outside routine at first,to get used to it,and then slowly incorporate it in routine.I tried other way around,but found it distracting.
Cheers,all the best Zlarp! |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 2:40:32 PM
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Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm not going to be doing any snipping or even stretching, I really feel my tongue is long enough, the bigger thing is that there's a lack of this kind of "energetic draw" people keep talking about. Today I can already maintain stage 2 a lot longer than yesterday. It feels a bit like I felt with stage 1 kechari, which was also difficult for me in the beginning.
I can slip the tongue up easily now. I still don't feel different, though yesterday I heard a lot more "music" during meditation than ever before, so maybe that's connected. Definitely no feelings of being utterly blissed out like people report though. Not that I need that, it sounds kind of silly :) Just makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong. |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 7:57:20 PM
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Hey Zlarp..It's same here,i don't get any notable effect upon entering Kechari.I'll speak for my self,and say that i don't think anything is wrong.We are all different,and at different stages of Sadhana.For example,i think EK was telling how he obtained Kechari when energy "asked" for it,thus he felt bliss and whatnot.That was his experience.Yours,mine,Joe's,Mary's...experience might be same or different and i would say all that is ok.
In regard "sensations",i found out in last few days that Talabya Kriya,for some reason,is producing mild,pleasant sensation in spine which gives me goose skin.Also,last two days since doing Pranayama with Kechari,mind is notably calmer during day.That might or might not have to do with Kechari.
Best! |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 9:11:07 PM
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Dear Zlarp and Sol what you are reporting are the mildest effects, be careful in your practices and do not be in a rush you are coming along nicely.
Just remember if things start to progress rapidly take some time for yourself to adapt. If either of you need to talk in private contact me. |
Edited by - Experientialknowing on May 10 2014 9:59:42 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2201 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 9:13:44 PM
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| The energetic difference in stage 2 is subtle for me, stronger some sits than others. As others have said, practice outside of meditation and incorporate it when it happens naturally. I play in stage 2 at different times of the day and no one is on to me! |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 11:09:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Experientialknowing
Dear Zlarp and Sol what you are reporting are the mildest effects, be careful in your practices and do not be in a rush you are coming along nicely.
Just remember if things start to progress rapidly take some time for yourself to adapt. If either of you need to talk in private contact me.
Hi EK!
First of all,don't think that your previous friendly advice was discarded just like that.It's appreciated,as friendly gesture of senior Kriyavan.
Thanks for your willingness to help out,and i'll drop you an email if things get crazy
Today morning,managed to do whole routine with Kechari.Position of tongue and elasticity of soft palate have changed in last few days,which allowed me to stay in Kechari for much longer time than before.Seems salivation decreased too.So,Zlarp,if you feel like you should practice Kechari,go for it.Practice makes perfect!
Kechari it self was,apparently,held as one of three key Mudras in Kriya by Bhagavan Lahiri Baba.In Householder lineage,as far as i know most of them,including Ennio,are preaching Kechari to be done right from beginning.
But i do agree with EK,we should observe,note and act accordingly.
Best! |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2014 : 03:57:06 AM
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:) Yes, yes, no hurry, no hurry! I don't believe in practice and attainment anyway, things are fine the way they are. I don't even know why I'm doing this silly Kriya thing, I just sort of stumbled into it. I find it strange to see all these people with their strong "bakthi" around here. Take it easy guys! God is right there. And if you can't see god, then that's exactly where he's hiding :)
So, on a lighter note, who here thinks that being able to do weird and crazy things with their tongues like this will help them impress the opposite sex? ^^ |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 04:37:05 AM
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Just a small update in case anyone else in my situation comes along: I can do my whole meditation in kechari stage 2 right now and I'm spending most of my day in it. So after the initial ability to get my tongue "up there", it took only about 3 days to get used to it, even though it felt impossible at first. Like Sol Invictus, I still need to swallow now and again, but it was the same for kechari stage 1 at first.
Feeling-wise, nothing has changed. My throat feels a bit sore, even, though I'm not sure if that's because of kechari or because my recent cold still isn't quite healed up. Sol, since you're ahead of me, tell me if something cool happens, alright? :) |
Edited by - Zlarp on May 12 2014 05:17:51 AM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 05:19:54 AM
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quote:
I'm spending most of my day in it.
this is not wise, it will lead to overload |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 05:56:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
I'm spending most of my day in it.
this is not wise, it will lead to overload
Could you link me to where overload symptoms are described so I can keep it in check if I notice? I'm not an energetically sensitive person at all so I think something would need to pack a huge wallop for me to even notice it. Compared to the sensitive people around here I feel like a spiritual lumberjack in the court of Versailles with fainting maidens all around him while he wonders what all the fuss is about. |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 05:57:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Zlarp
Feeling-wise, nothing has changed. My throat feels a bit sore, even, though I'm not sure if that's because of kechari or because my recent cold still isn't quite healed up. Sol, since you're ahead of me, tell me if something cool happens, alright? :)
LOL,will do!But actually,i'm not really ahead,see,you managed to do whole session in Kechari and now staying in it for whole day.Thou,makes sense what Maheswari is saying.Take care,friend:)
About sore throat..Here is what EK kindly advised to me:"...mix up a glass of Warm Water 12 ounces worth and put 1 tablespoon of table salt in it. The water should be warm / hot like as you would make it for drinking hot tea.
Swish this around until it is cool and then spit it out till the cup is empty twice daily and you will see how fast minor things like this heal and how soreness from the rest of the tissues can be alleviated. One day you will need to do this and gargle as well when Kechari starts effecting the throat."
Cheers,all the best! |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 06:45:59 AM
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Erk, another strange-feeling thing just happened. I can now push my tongue in farther. If I look into a mirror I can now see my uvula again when doing stage 2 kechari. I think before I was pushing it up with the tongue as well. As I push in my tongue farther the uvula slips back down again.
With the tip of my tongue I can now feel two bony bits to the left and right and a third one in the middle. What's going on? I don't think it makes sense that I have reached stage 3 kechari already, so have I just completed stage 2 now in the way it's supposed to look like? |
Edited by - Zlarp on May 12 2014 07:21:27 AM |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 11:52:53 PM
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"Stage 3 – Gradually working to the top of the nasal pharynx and septum. This takes us to the bony structure containing the pituitary gland."
Copy pasted from Yogani's lessons. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2014 : 02:12:18 AM
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Hello Zlarp
not feeling energy is not an excuse for over doing ,the practices are very well explained in the lessons, we practice only during sitting times, then we got out and live normally
in the end we are not even seeking those energy experience, they might happen, they might not, in all cases they are scnenery, and scenery is irrelevant
usually energy symtpoms do appear , and if we overdo practices, the symptoms will be disturbing
the symptoms are found in many topics in the forums, just search for overload , or kundalini
there are 2 lessons also that can help
http://www.aypsite.org/69.html
and
http://www.aypsite.org/367.html
take it easy |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2014 : 04:20:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
Hello Zlarp
not feeling energy is not an excuse for over doing ,the practices are very well explained in the lessons, we practice only during sitting times, then we got out and live normally
in the end we are not even seeking those energy experience, they might happen, they might not, in all cases they are scnenery, and scenery is irrelevant
usually energy symtpoms do appear , and if we overdo practices, the symptoms will be disturbing
the symptoms are found in many topics in the forums, just search for overload , or kundalini
there are 2 lessons also that can help
http://www.aypsite.org/69.html
and
http://www.aypsite.org/367.html
take it easy
Hmm... I think it's best to ask my guru about this, since we were taught to have our tongues rolled up all throughout the day. However, she did not tell us anything about further stages of kechari, so it might be different for stage 2. |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2014 : 2:02:59 PM
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| Aand my guru says not to do kechari stage 2 at all. Now I am thoroughly confused, since I thought it was an integral part of Kriya Yoga. I wrote her back that I don't think I'll be able not to do it now that it's become so simple and easy to do. I hope this won't make her angry with me or anything. I hate not following my guru's advice, but it just feels really wrong. |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2014 : 3:15:58 PM
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Who is your Guru?
Which Lineage?
What have you told her?
quote:
Originally posted by Zlarp
Aand my guru says not to do kechari stage 2 at all. Now I am thoroughly confused, since I thought it was an integral part of Kriya Yoga. I wrote her back that I don't think I'll be able not to do it now that it's become so simple and easy to do. I hope this won't make her angry with me or anything. I hate not following my guru's advice, but it just feels really wrong.
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Edited by - Experientialknowing on May 13 2014 3:35:17 PM |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2014 : 4:46:34 PM
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My guru's Kripanandamoyimaji, she lives in Switzerland. She's in the line of Dhiranandaji, who goes back to Hariharanandaji when he was touring Europe. He in turn goes back to Yoganandaji, Sri Yukteswarji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
I told her about how I was now able to get into stage 2 kechari after trying around a bit and attached the picture from ayp to show what that meant (in case our tradition had different definitions of the stages). I said I was able to do it during meditation and added a short summary of approximately the things I posted here. I also told her that someone had said not to do it all day and only during meditation, which was why I was writing her.
She replies saying that she does not agree to do the tongue mudra in such an "extreme" fashion, that it was meant to get in touch with the Medulla oblongata and that stage 1 was enough for this, that Kriya Yoga is a way of love and devotion and that I should concentrate on that. Everything else would just serve the ego. She reminded me of my tendency to tense up and that I should try and let the energy flow.
Then she apologized for this being a difficult question to answer per e-mail (she's on holiday right now) and that she hoped I understood it correctly.
Frankly I find the situation a bit disconcerting. I wrote her back explaining why this worried me. This is all kinda weird. |
Edited by - Zlarp on May 13 2014 4:48:33 PM |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2014 : 7:42:15 PM
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| Hey Zlarp, sonce we are initiated in the same lineage I will contact you via email, what I would say should be private. Contact ypu tomorrow. |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2014 : 02:43:36 AM
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Alright, thank you for your concern :) One caveat, though: I am not initiated into the lineage yet, I only had my introduction. My initiation will be in July.
As for kechari practice right now, I've definitely overdone it, which I have a tendency to do. Doing kechari is starting to hurt. My throat ache has gotten worse and when I blow my nose there's blood - it's not a nosebleed, just some very diluted blood. This leads me to think I've been chafing the inside of my nasal pharynx with my tongue. I'll lay off kechari practice for now until it's healed, even though part of me is driving me to continue. I'll start off slower next time. |
Edited by - Zlarp on May 14 2014 02:47:19 AM |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2014 : 08:52:05 AM
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Sorry to read of such troubles. Writing to you now.
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2014 : 09:03:06 AM
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Hahah, troubles :p I am used to migraines and other bad headaches. This leaves me with quite a high pain tolerance. That's probably why I was able to ignore that I was doing such chafing - I'm just too much of an insensitive prick to notice. I'm hoping that continued practice will change that, though :)
I just got back an e-mail from my guru saying that if I felt truly comfortable doing it it wasn't a problem, but it was more important not to strain and relax the facial muscles. I'm backing off kechari practice now until these cold symptoms (and the bloody nose, heh) go away. For some reason I'm still tempted though despite all this. I guess I'm just getting excited over this new trick I learned :p like a kid learning to ride the bicycle I really don't care if I fall and get hurt a few times. |
Edited by - Zlarp on May 14 2014 09:05:40 AM |
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Kechari Mudra
