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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 08:52:47 AM
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Yogani (or other who might know),
I am not 100% sure, but I believe I have reached stage 4 yesterday. The tongue was able to go in through the left side. I followed your description as best I could, "twisting" the tongue so that the topside of it faced the septum. Going in (though it doesn't seem that far in), the topside of the tongue touched a soft, sensitive "cushion". I tried to twist my tongue as much as I could, but it's a tricky thing.
I stayed in that position(it felt very nice) and after a while I could feel waves of heat moving throughout my whole body. It seemed to level off a bit after about a minute or so, and felt an ondulating sensation of heat from the base of my spine up to about my mid back. You know when you see seaweeds moving gracefully in a wavelike motion underwater, that it the kind of movement the "flames" seemed to be moving.
My question is, can we do pranayama and meditation while in any stage of kechari, even 4 (assuming that's what I was in), or is it sort of a standalone practice? |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 10:53:45 AM
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Hi Y:
As mentioned in lesson 108, pranayama can be done with alternate nostrils from the inside using stage 4 kechari. It's is not something to jump into on a whim, as it is very powerful, a whole new level of practice involving long term acclimation and self-pacing. Stage 4 kechari can also be used in alternate nostrils during successive kumbhakas in yoni mudra, chin pump and/or yoni chin pump. It is not advised until stability in stage 2-3 kechari is mastered during sitting practices -- which can also take a long time. And, of course, any practice we consider adding kechari to needs to be well established and stable beforehand. There is only so much the nervous system can be absorbing at once. That is why we always go step-by-step in AYP.
In every case, including stage 4 kechari is a major change, like adding a whole new practice. As with any new practice, we begin small and build up very gradually...
It is at the practitioner's discretion, keeping common sense at the fore. Stability and long term daily practice are the keys to progress.
The guru is in you.
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Loris
1 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2006 : 5:10:06 PM
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Hi Yogani (and Hi all)
I am in a situation similar to ycloutier: perhaps initial Kechari stage 4 (after about 2 years stage 2-3).
In The Secrets of Wilder (final chart) and in your reply to ycloutier you seems to suggest to use stage 4 in pranayama and stage 3 in meditation.
Why not stage 4 in all the practices (with self-pacing)? |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2006 : 10:19:47 PM
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Hi Loris, and welcome aboard here!
Yes, that's right.
Stage 4 kechari tends to be dynamic (alternating nostrils), and therefore akin to pranayama. As recommended in the AYP lessons, we do not do pranayama at the same time as deep meditation because it divides our attention between the two practices. That is not so bad for pranayama, but can seriously disrupt the simple and delicate procedure of deep meditation. That is why we don't do any of the mudras or bandhas during meditation either, until they become automatic habits that we don't think about when they are occurring. Hence, we use our spinal breathing pranayama session for cultivating the habits of mudras, bandhas and siddhasana.
Now, if kechari stage 4 has reached the level of being an effortless automatic habit for you, then you are welcome to let it be there in deep meditation. But do you really want to be meditating with one nostril blocked for 20 minutes? As soon as you decide to switch, you are not doing deep meditation anymore, but pranayama. nah nah... 
So, I'd suggest using kechari stage 4 during pranayama and kumbhaka (breath suspension) related practices where alternate nostril breathing fits in nicely. For most using kechari stage 4, that will be more than enough. Yes, in the practices chart in the Secrets of Wilder, that is how it is shown, without any "secret chamber - upper passages" (stage 4) during i am meditation. On the chart, "secret chamber - altar of bliss" (stage 2-3) is shown during intermediate and advanced stages of i am meditation, meaning, only when it is an effortless habit.
Btw, the same goes for samyama as for meditation. They are in the same class.
I'm really glad you brought up the practices chart from the Secrets of Wilder novel, covering nearly all of the core practices of AYP, applied in routines at the basic, intermediate and advanced levels, all on one page! It is one of the best kept "secrets" of the book, and perhaps in all of AYP. Nothing like it can be found anywhere else in the AYP writings. Maybe I will duplicate it (with the Sanskrit terminology re-inserted) for the ninth Enlightenment Series book next year, which will cover the eight limbs of yoga and the structure and pacing of self-directed practice. That will be the big picture, and the Wilder practices chart is definitely the big picture.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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billeejak
20 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2006 : 7:18:37 PM
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| And I was going to ask if there was just such a chart...guess I will be ordering the book tonight ;-) |
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Kechari Stage 4 + Pranayama
