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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
 Posted - May 28 2006 : 11:26:14 AM
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Etherfish said:
I'm coming from quite a different place than you. I have very little ego, (which creates problems also)so I am not provoked very easily.
If it's true, lucky you indeed. If it's false and you believe it, you're in serious trouble spiritually. So watch out and good luck with that one!!
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 12:40:33 PM
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Op, it's not over yet. Guess I'm still along for the ride. Yes, be careful. Be sure "I have very little ego" isn't "very little ego has me"
Peace, alan |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 3:14:08 PM
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No, here are the kind of problems I run into from not having very much ego: I tend to disappear when it comes to my abilities. I can be in a group of people, and be the best qualified for the job, and when it comes time to pick someone, I will get passed over because people forget about me. They remember the guy who makes the most noise. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Girls don't notice me because they notice the guy who has "game". In other words he has an act that advertises his strong points.
So without much ego you become the "unsung hero". In times of real need I have the ability to perform a lot better than people with an ego, but nobody will know it unless there's an emergency. Guys with a big ego are always busy painting a picture of what they would do, even though in a real emergency they would be scared and under-perform. Everyone else believes the picture they paint because they want to believe it as it make them feel secure. Real emergencies rarely materialize, and even then the big ego guys tend to take credit for what they didn't do. So it's not that great having little ego. In myself i know it's right, but that's as far as it gets.
There's a purpose for the ego, and when you don't have one, you learn that purpose painfully. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 28 2006 3:15:07 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 3:18:59 PM
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Hi Ether
All that sounds just like me. No kidding.
When I look close enough at myself I see that size doesn't matter when it comes to King Ego. 'Big' or 'little' he still rules with a mighty thumb.
Peace, alan |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 3:28:12 PM
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quote:
In times of real need I have the ability to perform a lot better than people with an ego, but nobody will know it unless there's an emergency
Ether, I will say I am some what like you.. and I could never identify my ego.. but someone at the forum pointed out to me that egos come in many forms.. and Jim said..
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=2
quote:
We're not talking about ego in the sense of having a big head and lots of pride. It's the eastern meaning..........the narrating, thinking, grasping mind and our image of a separate, frozen self.
You can be humble and still locked in ego mind. Humility's not the answer. The answer is practices, which enable you to more and more recognize that you are the witness/silence, rather than the noise. Not frozen. Not separate.
Soooooo.. what would you say to this? The fact that I think I can perform better than most when there is an emergency and the fact that I can work more than any of the others and not be recognized for it.. because I never make a big deal about things.. is a form of ego to me.. is it not for you?
PS: I did not see your post Alan.. yes.. welcome to the club of little egos.. you know.. these little ones are harder to isolate.. we don't even see them.. so when we are told.. recognize your ego.. the little ones have a way to hide and we go "what ego?"
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Edited by - Shanti on May 28 2006 3:32:03 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 3:36:45 PM
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May I add here let's not forget to laugh with ourselves and have sympathy for our little egos? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 3:46:23 PM
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Yes you may Alan.. laughing with you at our little egos
Although.. sympathy I have none... |
Edited by - Shanti on May 28 2006 3:48:09 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 3:54:10 PM
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| Oh, come now Forgiveness is key. It helps to separate. You know, "leggo my ego!" I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 7:03:18 PM
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Hello Ether,
Being uninclined to self-promote doesn't come even close to qualifying for ego-transcendence in the spiritual sense. If being uninclined to self-promote in real life (as opposed to on the forum) is what you mean by 'little ego', then don't cherish it, because it's useless on the spiritual path (and useless in life in general) and may even be an impediment for both.
Suggested remedy: learn to self-promote within reason and reality. Have a clear image of yourself and make sure you get what you deserve. Don't ever, ever, ever, be the 'Unsung Hero' again, like those guys with the 'little egos' that the Superhero comics are written for.
Seriously, that is the theme of most Superhero comic stories.
Best,
David
quote:
No, here are the kind of problems I run into from not having very much ego: I tend to disappear when it comes to my abilities. I can be in a group of people, and be the best qualified for the job, and when it comes time to pick someone, I will get passed over because people forget about me. They remember the guy who makes the most noise. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Girls don't notice me because they notice the guy who has "game". In other words he has an act that advertises his strong points.
So without much ego you become the "unsung hero". In times of real need I have the ability to perform a lot better than people with an ego, but nobody will know it unless there's an emergency. Guys with a big ego are always busy painting a picture of what they would do, even though in a real emergency they would be scared and under-perform. Everyone else believes the picture they paint because they want to believe it as it make them feel secure. Real emergencies rarely materialize, and even then the big ego guys tend to take credit for what they didn't do. So it's not that great having little ego. In myself i know it's right, but that's as far as it gets.
There's a purpose for the ego, and when you don't have one, you learn that purpose painfully.
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 8:15:03 PM
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My apologies, Ether, if I seemed to be belittling your situation or feelings. I wasn't intending that. I'm certain Shanti would agree with me that we were not trying to be humorous at your expense
Peace, alan
P.S. I agree with David's advice |
Edited by - alan on May 28 2006 8:50:18 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 11:56:14 PM
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Ether, I agree with Alan.. we are not trying to be humorous at your expense... I am sorry if I said anything to hurt you.. it was all Alan's fault you know...
David, I have always hated Superhero comic stories.. I do love happy ending fairy tales though.. do they fall in the same category? |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 12:42:27 AM
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Seems to me like you two (Alan and Shanti) were sharing humorously your experiences of 'Little Ego', which is something we almost all share to some degree or other.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 03:17:38 AM
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Hi Ether
I think David is right in what he says and if you can grab hold of it you have the opportunity to take a giant leap forward.
quote:
Being uninclined to self-promote doesn't come even close to qualifying for ego-transcendence in the spiritual sense. If being uninclined to self-promote in real life (as opposed to on the forum) is what you mean by 'little ego', then don't cherish it, because it's useless on the spiritual path (and useless in life in general) and may even be an impediment for both.
Suggested remedy: learn to self-promote within reason and reality. Have a clear image of yourself and make sure you get what you deserve. Don't ever, ever, ever, be the 'Unsung Hero' again, like those guys with the 'little egos' that the Superhero comics are written for.
Seriously, that is the theme of most Superhero comic stories.
David, this is great, it has given me a new vital source of self enquiry for when I see the new superman movie, and I'm serious about this, I will enjoy it all the more for that - thanks
Louis |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 06:10:50 AM
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Jokes aside.. Ether, little ego or big... what you are doing with the kids is great.. so don't let us tell you how to do things.. all we can do is talk.. you are the only one doing something.. I know you don't need a bravo from me... but thank you for caring for these kids and taking the time and effort to make a difference.
David I find your solution amazing though.. Suggested remedy: learn to self-promote within reason and reality. Have a clear image of yourself and make sure you get what you deserve.
So you want us to make the small ego, big.. and then try and get over it?
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 07:20:41 AM
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Yes, all those things you guys are telling me to do is what I'm already doing. I came to the conclusion that having a small ego was impairing my usefullness to society. So that's what I meant by becoming an actor. I'm emulating the useful parts of the guys who have a big ego, without actually having one.
PS it's never really been "better" having a small ego; always an impediment. There's a good reason for the ego. I do think however that it may be better to artificially develop one rather than being controlled by one. We'll see. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 29 2006 07:26:17 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 08:35:00 AM
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quote:
So that's what I meant by becoming an actor. I'm emulating the useful parts of the guys who have a big ego, without actually having one.
Glad to hear that Ether.. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 09:57:34 AM
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I think there is a distinct difference between confidence and ego. To me, ego is acting, confidence just is. The more I practice the more confident I become in everything I do because the "Doubting Thomas" voice of my ego has less influence.
A |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 10:32:47 AM
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Thanks Louis.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
David I find your solution amazing though.. Suggested remedy: learn to self-promote within reason and reality. Have a clear image of yourself and make sure you get what you deserve.
So you want us to make the small ego, big.. and then try and get over it?
Shanti, problems of semantics again. Words, words, words. One person is meaning one thing by 'small ego' and another a different thing.
Perhaps 'insufficiently assertive' is what is being meant by 'small ego' in certain places here. The remedy for that is being sufficiently assertive -- no more, no less.
When people say 'big ego' that might mean overly-narcissistic (having a strong sense that one is special). You can certainly be overly- narcissistic and still be insufficiently self-assertive, meaning you can have a 'big ego' within one meaning of the phrase, and a 'small ego' within the other. Witnesss the Superhero stories -- spiderman, superman -- they play to the fantasy of being superbly special, despite being walked-on in everyday life.
By the way, even narcissism, within bounds, may be OK and good -- it's certainly normal. A certain amount of feeling of one's specialness may be part of what makes many of us tick. This could be part of what is called 'healthy pride'. I can enjoy the Superhero stories or movies myself -- I know I am getting into a fantasy world and I enjoy the ride.
So what I am saying is to become sufficiently self-assertive (if you are low on that). But that does not at all mean letting narcissism (feeling of specialness and attachment to it) get out of bounds.
So in short, become sufficiently self-assertive, and also work on not feeling special or superior.
Now, I'd love to talk more but some Evil Genius is trying to cut the Brooklyn Bridge in two with a laser. Gotta get into my polyester suit and save all those people.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on May 29 2006 6:26:07 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 11:11:02 AM
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| Ego is ego. It's a hindrance. More and more we merge the self into Self and let go of false identification and the little self becomes a personality of Self. More and more we find proper and useful abilities to interact on the stage before us as actors in a divine play. We drop our hold on things and Self will show us the way to function effectively from a place of evenmindedness. Become a superman |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 6:22:48 PM
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Alan, I'd take the position of 'conditional agreement' with what you said. Yes, within certain meanings of the word, ego is a hindrance. We have to be really careful though with where we go with an idea like that. Mustn't take a gross approach -- must not get out our shotgun and go out hunting the ego -- if we do, the ego will position itself perfectly to assure its safety despite our hunt -- as the holder of the shotgun.
I think that gross approaches (including enemy-making with the ego) often do damage. Sly, sophisticated approaches are sometimes better: make friends with the ego. Know it well. Infiltrate it. Be alternatively easy on it then ferociously harsh if necessary: Give it some play. Then shock it with reality again and again. Educate it with the truth until it has no chance but to grow up.
Words are often deceptive and inadequate. This thing we call ego is really an immature personality. One does not actually remove an immature personality -- a shotgun to the head would do that but it is not helpful. It ultimately fixes by becoming mature and facing the truth.
quote:
Originally posted by alan
Ego is ego. It's a hindrance. More and more we merge the self into Self and let go of false identification and the little self becomes a personality of Self. More and more we find proper and useful abilities to interact on the stage before us as actors in a divine play. We drop our hold on things and Self will show us the way to function effectively from a place of evenmindedness. Become a superman
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Edited by - david_obsidian on May 29 2006 6:28:07 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 6:33:32 PM
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Yes David, I agree, sly, sophisticated approaches, or even eye's open approaches are good.
I don't believe I was advocating enemy-making, violent or shot-gun approaches
To me ego is more than an immature personality. For me ego is the combination of everything and anything that is identified with outside of the realm of Self (God-consciousness?). To me ego is a 'false' or 'separate' identity.
Peace, alan |
Edited by - alan on May 29 2006 6:36:16 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 6:50:02 PM
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Alan said:
To me ego is more than an immature personality. For me ego is the combination of everything and anything that is identified with outside of the realm of Self (God-consciousness?). To me ego is a 'false' or'separate' identity.
Is this just semantic mismatch? The 'fully mature personality' of which I was speaking incorporates the idea of being free of a 'false' or 'separate' identity. So I think we are just speaking with different meanings to our words, not disagreeing.
What is useful about seeing 'ego-free' and 'fully mature' as being contained in each other is that we can understand that being free of a false or separate identity is one of the growth-potentials of the personality. It isn't something that comes magically from outside our human or biological potential. It isn't alien, or coming from anyone else. Nothing which is not-real or not-true or not-native or not-us has to be taken on or accepted by us.
Like those computers that have a little label that says 'Intel Inside', our beings have a little label on them that says 'Divine Reality' inside.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on May 29 2006 6:54:42 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 7:15:48 PM
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I don't have any problem being sufficiently assertive, or getting what I deserve, as that's a problem I worked on many years ago.
The type of ego-acting that i'm working on now is self-advertising. It's possible that many of you aren't exposed to the kind of situations that require that, and it wasn't natural for me either. But there are times when it's absolutely necessary. In my line of work I meet strangers whose trust I must gain in a short period of time. Also i often work with "good old boy" network type of egomaniacs who require that posturing on first meetings, and periodically thereafter. i've gotten pretty good at it now, and see it as a type of communication required by certain other people. i've gotten where I can see in their faces if they require that, and I launch into my BS. It feels like I'm translating into another language. Don't really like it though. |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 9:56:16 PM
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Hi Ether, I see where you're coming from.
More power to you in figuring out how to maneuver. It can be quite a game it appears. I hope you can find more enjoyment in the act since it is what you must do for now
Peace, alan |
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mystiq
India
62 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2006 : 02:41:38 AM
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Hi Etherfish I think that you are quite right.The so called popular Gods have been created by the imagination of man. Basically it is a product of our hopes and fears.The real God or Brahman is not a product of imagination and is what is left after all thoughts have run out.That God or Brahman doesnt have any image and non can see him for he is our very self.
mystiq |
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