|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
 Posted - May 19 2006 : 2:07:23 PM
|
I just got to this post now (been extra busy lately).
Maybe I can throw some perspective on the whole crown issue. The following are, to an extent, my own theories and intuitions.
First, we all have operative crown chakras -- we would be dead without them. Whenever we say a chakra is 'awakening' that means that the activity in it is currently noticeably increasing. 'Awakening' is really a relative term, not an absolute one.
We subjectively accommodate to the steady-state and no longer notice it. If your crown is in steady-state (hasn't significantly changed in level of activity for some time), you'll notice nothing there. That's true no matter what stage of 'development' you are at. If Buddha's crown is in steady-state activity, he notices nothing there....
So a sensation in the crown can mean it is 'awakening'. It doesn't mean that it is 'awakened'. A person with a more 'silent' crown may actually have a more developed system than a person with a crown that has become noisy. (By silent here I just mean not 'presenting' or drawing attention to itself, not 'silent' as in 'inner silence'). In short:
Steady-state hardly active = silent
Steady-state moderately active = silent
...
Steady-state highly active = silent
In transition = noisy
The warnings on 'crown awakening' as I understand them, are warnings against practices attempting to physically 'direct energy into the crown'. Apparently, people have had major problems stemming from such practices. I have no personal clue about these, but I believe these risks.
I saw this as a warning against those kinds of practices. I didn't see them as a warning against the crown spontaneously awakening, or even against things which may kind of indirectly awaken your crown, if it is ready. If that is a non-AYP position, let me know, someone. Yogani?
Any kind of anhanced activity I felt for a while in my crown was never the result of any attempt to 'move' energy into it. The process was a little different; a better way of looking at things (with more unity) would spontaneously arise, or would be stimulated by some other source (such as by a teacher like Nisagardatta). As I started to look at things that way, some crown 'activity' would follow. This was typically very peaceful for me. There was a great sense of completeness and deep rest. It was joyful, but not exciting. And it is in a good way, that I mean 'not exciting'.
|
 |
|
|
alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2006 : 2:45:01 PM
|
| Very nice observations David. Thank you. Peace, alan |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2006 : 3:15:15 PM
|
Great post, David - thanks for clarifying this issue 
You wrote:
quote:
So a sensation in the crown can mean it is 'awakening'. It doesn't mean that it is 'awakened'. A person with a more 'silent' crown may actually have a more developed system than a person with a crown that has become noisy.
This is exactly how I have interpreted it. That my crown is NOT awakened - but noisy because the transition is going on. This is how I perceive ecstacy in all the chakras - simply a cleaning process; not a proof of "awakened chakra", but rather a sign of ongoing purification.
May all your Nows be Here |
|
|
|
weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2006 : 10:41:08 PM
|
Hi David and Katrine,
Thank you for your posts on this.
David wrote:
quote:
If your crown is in steady-state (hasn't significantly changed in level of activity for some time), you'll notice nothing there.
If you mean perceived level of activity, this is not quite in line with what I experience. I have had about the same level of pulsations in the crown for about 2 months, but they are still as noticeable as when they started. However, if you mean an "actual" level of activity, beyond perception, it could be true. I have found a lot of consolation from the following, which is an addition to Lesson 230 in the printed version of Advanced Yoga Practices by Yogani, it is not included in the online lessons, therefore I post it for general interest (my underlining):
"If there are some sensations in the crown, this is normal as we continue with our regular brow to root advanced yoga practices, because the crown is also being gradually opened in a controlled way. Over time the crown sensations will be stronger in concert with overall purification in the nervous system. If the energies do not become uncomfortable, we can just continue with our daily practices. It is not a danger to notice what is happening at the crown, as it does not constitute focused practice. There will be a time when we can go directly to the crown with nothing but complete absorption in ecstatic bliss being the outcome. This is how it is when the nervous system is adequately purified. So, all we do is let the crown come along naturally with our regular advanced yoga practices. If things get excessive, then we know it is time to apply self-pacing and back off a bit. With this approach the crown is not so much difficulty. It is just like any other kind of self-pacing situation we encounter in the nervous system as we proceed with our practices." |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2006 : 02:51:13 AM
|
Thank you, Weaver!
That was really summing things up for me.
May all your Nows be Here |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2006 : 9:18:39 PM
|
Weaver said:
If you mean perceived level of activity, this is not quite in line with what I experience. I have had about the same level of pulsations in the crown for about 2 months, but they are still as noticeable as when they started.
Nothing you've said contradicts what I said Weaver. It just indicates that your crown has not been in steady-state for the last two months. Two months is nothing! You could spend your whole life feeling your crown opening like that.
Yogani said:
Over time the crown sensations will be stronger in concert with overall purification in the nervous system.
Yes. If te crown area is being 'purified' it will probably be felt.
Maybe what I meant by 'steady state' is ambiguous and not the best phrase. Perhaps 'in normal function' would be a better phrase. According to my understanding, our chakras are not 'designed' to be drawing attention to themselves in normal function. No more than our livers, our kidneys, or our brains themselves! They are 'presenting' because of changes and transitions -- expansions, purifications. Just like growing pains in adolescence. So by 'steady state' I mean normal function, without purifications/transitions. I didn't mean 'outside the short-term'.
There is no saying how long 'purification' will last. A lifetime maybe?
In short: chakras presenting themselves would be purification, not purity.
I hope that clears it up and we are 'on the same page' now.
regards,
-David
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on May 20 2006 11:33:55 PM |
|
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 02:28:18 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
According to my understanding, our chakras are not 'designed' to be drawing attention to themselves in normal function. No more than our livers, our kidneys, or our brains themselves! They are 'presenting' because of changes and transitions -- expansions, purifications.
This is also my understanding of chakra states, as well as that of Osho, so it must be correct!  |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 07:47:00 AM
|
Oh, so Osho agrees with me about this? [OK then, let's see ... aha] A flawless and perfect Guru he was indeed. We are honored and priveleged to have had him amongst us in bodily form.
See, I can play guru-politics too when I want to!
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on May 21 2006 07:50:25 AM |
|
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 11:51:49 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
See, I can play guru-politics too when I want to!
Indeed, and you might consider applying for guru-ship yourself, as you have the qualifications: humility, grace, and a purified crown! All hail guru Obsidian!  As for the rest of us meatheads, what are we to make of our lack of crown activity? Does an inert crown indicate a higher state? Doubtful, in most cases. When is it safe to assume that an inactive crown suggests a higher level of awareness?
Another question: Why the big deal about the crown, anyway? Is it b'c it houses the sahasrar, the opening of which is arrived at only after years of cleansing and devotion to one's guru? I ask this b'c it makes little sense to me that the crown should be singled out as the chakra extraordinaire, any more than the liver, kidney or heart should be hailed as the organ of choice. I have a lot of throat and ajna activity, which is a very cool thing for me, but I've not once experienced any activity at the root.
What's my point, you ask? This: ANY chakra activity indicates purification, and the 'lower' chakras are not of lesser significance than the 'higher' ones. Shakti emerges from the root, divine love at the heart, divine grace at the throat, and so on; each as significant as the other. My understanding is that in the state of ultimate purification, the chakras fuse to become a mega-chakra, at which point muladar and sahasrar, and every chakra inbetween, become indistinguishable.
|
|
|
|
alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 12:43:00 PM
|
I like that, megachakra. We are all megachakra. How about bindumegachakra?
|
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:06:25 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by meg
Indeed, and you might consider applying for guru-ship yourself, as you have the qualifications: humility, grace, and a purified crown! All hail guru Obsidian!
Thanks Meg. Humility I have in abundance, but I cannot claim a 'purified crown'.
Seriously, if you start to see a lot of 'humility' from me, that might be the time to watch out and start running away. That might be an indication that I am getting up onto a trip. I'm trying to help the world de-mythologize enlightenment right now. If I reverse and start to cultivate the mythologization of it (as per the more conventional yoga tradition), that could be an indication that I have sold out to the dark side.
quote:
Originally posted by meg
When is it safe to assume that an inactive crown suggests a higher level of awareness?
Never. And it's never safe to assume that an active crown suggests a higher level of awareness either. Which is really my main point here. Perceived activity = (in good cases) purification. Something is throwing some trash out of your head. What more could you ask for?
If part of you is begging to have a mark of 'higher awareness' (and that's probably true to some extent of almost all of us), that part of you is marked as trash also, for eventual dissolution.
|
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:10:20 PM
|
Meg, the crown chakra opening prematurely causes a lot of emotional turmoil.. and is very uncomfortable. The point of AYP is to be gentle about the purification. That is why Yogani tries to keep us away from the crown.
Look at these lessons, Yogani explains it very well... and I will tell you this, the things he says are all true.. I have first hand experience of this to some degree..
http://www.aypsite.org/199.html
quote:
Lesson#199: The problem is that, if our nervous system
between the root and the crown is not purified enough, kundalini
energy will begin tearing through everything to get to the crown.
This is what produces so-called excessive kundalini symptoms, which
can include a counterpart of emotional difficulty as well.
http://www.aypsite.org/201.html
|
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:11:05 PM
|
My understanding is that in the state of ultimate purification, the chakras fuse to become a mega-chakra, at which point muladar and sahasrar, and every chakra inbetween, become indistinguishable.
Which is another way of saying that they shut up and let us live life.
The megachakra -- would that be the Meg O'Chakra?
I don't believe in 'ultimate purification', by the way. For any form, a higher form is possible. With the possible exception maybe, of my very own daddy.
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on May 21 2006 1:16:12 PM |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:35:18 PM
|
Shanti said:
That is why Yogani tries to keep us away from the crown.
The statement needs a little qualification. More accurately, he's trying to help us avoid premature crown awakening. See the lesson you referred to. It's much more nuanced than 'trying to keep us away from the crown'.
|
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:50:54 PM
|
I agree David.. my mistake.. That is why Yogani tries to keep us away from the crown premature crown awakening
Sorry.
Also while I am in the correction mode.. let me clarify one more thing..
".. I have first hand experience of this to some degree.. "
Not of the wonderful experiences that happen with a smooth opening.. but first hand knowledge of the "excessive kundalini symptoms" and "emotional difficulty" with premature opening.  |
Edited by - Shanti on May 22 2006 08:03:11 AM |
|
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2006 : 6:08:03 PM
|
Directing one's attention to a spot opens that spot. This is the basis of self-healing and lots of other things. Attention paid during a period of spiritual work greatly amplifies that effect. And attention paid to a chakra during a period of spiritual work amplifies it further still. I mean ANY kind of attention.
And attention at the crown is hard to resist, since the crown is the brass ring, the siren, and the surprise ending all rolled into one. AYP is about not going there....at least until the very late stages. Which, in my understanding (and experience) is about not working there, not visualizing there, not putting attention there, not witnessing there....just letting it be, and constantly reinforcing the pathway from mulha to ajna (and letting that "nourish" the crown indirectly, as Yogani assures us it will). I pretend the crown doesn't even exist.
I could relate lots of anecdotal and theoretical rationale for this, but Yogani's already done so very well.
If you put attention to crown, if you show interest in crown, it will seduce and entice you. I find AYP as-is seduction and enticement enough, and likely will for some years to come. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 22 2006 6:10:12 PM |
|
|
|
axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2012 : 4:24:00 PM
|
In the section of locked postings I found a reference to this string on crown chakra and ajna.
Together with lessons there is a body of knowledge and practice not present in the active discussions on pressure in the third eye, kundalini experience and drilling a channel from ajna to the back of the head.
Ideas?
Axel
I take the experience here and the third eye as the spinal nerve and the "white" hole in the head.
Ideas
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Ajna and Crown
