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mika
Australia
19 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 02:57:14 AM
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Hi everyone,
I am having some serious problems with tantra and could use some help.
I came across tantra in books a few years ago and started learning it on my own at a bad time in my life, shortly after developing generalised anxiety disorder. I read Way of the Superior Man by David Deida and Cultivating Male Sexual Energy by Mantak Chia. It is the biggest mistake I've ever made.
My anxiety was getting worse and a few months later I read stories about people going insane from doing tantra and similar practices and I became terrified of it. I could feel sexual energy in other areas of my body now and I was scared of it and would try to push it away whenever I thought of it. It has been that way ever since, but the feelings in my body have been getting stronger and now I get awful headaches and feel terrible when I think of it. There is rarely a moment when I am not thinking about it. I am scared now not just of going insane but simply of thinking about it and having that energy build up.
When it does build up, at its worst it is agony and I feel like cutting myself, out of desperation. I have been planning for suicide because it is getting worse every day and it may get to a point that I can't bear it. I can't even meditate anymore or do many other things that would help me cope because it would be a constant battle not to think about the energy and would ultimately make it worse.
So far I haven't been able to find anyone in my area to help me so I came here looking for advice.
Stephen
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kaserdar
91 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 10:08:56 AM
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Hello Stephen,
You are lucky because there are people practicing and don't feel any energy movement you do. What you should do right now is learning with this energy and balance yourself. You came to right place. Please start reading lessons and practice gently. Everything is going to be ok.
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 10:40:08 AM
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Hi Mika,
Yes, the energy can be pretty overwhelming at times. Headaches and irritation often come from when the energy runs into various "issues" that you may have. Working on grounding should help. What kind of grounding practices (or meditations) do you do? I have also found that it is possible to radiate the extra energy.
Jeff |
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 1:40:05 PM
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| If you are feeling suicidal or feel like harming yourself then you need to speak to a councelor asap. Try to find a therapist familiar with yogic methods. But get some help. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 6:51:48 PM
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Stephan,
being aware of energy is not dangerous, it is simply your own body building up more charge than you are able to comfortably handle. First off, the fear is the first thing to deal with, that is the main risk, not the energy. As Roosevelt said "the only thing that there is to fear is fear itself". That said, all of the practices on this site should help you be able to handle this energy. There are very good tools here, start at the beginning and take it slow. If restraining ejaculation is making you crazy or have symptoms then don't hold it back so much. Find your balance. It is like steam in a locomotive. If the channels and boiler is good then you can handle steam to turn the wheels. If the channels need cleaning and you feel excess pressure then by all means release some. Ejaculation is your pressure valve, use it when needed. Not too much but certainly when you feel worse rather than better from the energy sensations. With time (and it can take years)you will probably find this energy clears and you feel better and stronger but it is a slow process and self pacing is needed, don't try to do it all at once! That is like doing pranayama and trying to hold your breath as long as possible till you can't stand it anymore. This is counterproductive. Find your natural sexual rhythm. every 3 days? every week? every month? We are all different, so take it easy on yourself and find what works best for you. We are here to help with our experience so please feel free to ask questions, explain what is going on and be courageous! |
Edited by - Victor on Mar 06 2012 6:52:59 PM |
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Louie
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2012 : 08:38:02 AM
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I think it is important to remember that sexual energy is not a magic elixir that brings only positive energy. It is more like an amplifier. It will take whatever the energy of your thoughts and feelings is an multiply it. Thus, if you already had some self-destructive tendencies, they could become stronger when you start to practice sexual retention.
I strongly reccomend that people with emotional or psychological issues should NOT see tantra as a way to treat themselves. If you start tantra and find that it creates a lot of negative energy then back off on the tantra and refocus on meditation and other practices that will help to release that negative energy.
My personal policy is that as soon as the energy start to feel uncomfortable I let some of it go in order to come back into balance. Sexual energy is like everything else in life. It is a good thing, but too much of it can be harmful. Respect the power that it has and don't harm yourself pursuing some ideal of lasting 30 days or three months or whatever. The goal oriented approach to the whole thing is contray to what yoga practices are really about. Trust your own body's wisdom in terms of how much semen retention is healthy for you. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2012 : 3:34:46 PM
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steven, something that seems to smooth my energies is meditating in a chair with my feet on the ground, meaning outside on the grass or dirt, God is the fatherr of all, however we also walkk upon the mother earth so conncetion may be important for your body. personally i like to do this in the evening at least for ten minutes.
best to you
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2012 : 6:31:31 PM
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| And friend, what exactly was the problem of being insanly terribly extatic? :) Is it really that or something else you are afraid of? |
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mika
Australia
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2012 : 06:01:10 AM
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Thanks for your replies, they're all helpful but I'm still unsure of what to do. I'm having trouble writing my thoughts down but I'll try.
I'm not actually still practicing tantra. I started learning it for a few months around late 2008 and early 2009 and then stopped. I didn't have any tantric orgasms or anything. At that point I was able to feel sexual energy in my lower back, and then I became afraid to feel it.
Over time the feelings got stronger so that now all I have to do is think about them and they’re there, and I can feel them in other areas of my body like my head. And then it builds up and I get headaches and feel terrible in a way that I can't describe.
I don't know whether I did something wrong with the practice and I'm screwed or it's just my anxiety causing the problem… Is it possible to do it so incorrectly that it can't be fixed?
Could it be that I'm hyper sensitive to the energy because of my anxiety, and that will calm down if I manage to treat it? And the energy might be giving me headaches and making me feel terrible due to my anxiety as well?
From what I've read about anxiety disorders, the way to overcome them is to face the anxiety and feel it rather than run from it. I just don't know that I can do that with this tantra thing, when I'm getting headaches and I'm still worried that something is wrong and I'm in danger. If I was just facing anxiety, I know I would be safe and it couldn't harm me. But I don’t feel the same way about this.
I'm doing tai chi but I can't do formal sitting meditation because of this problem. I can walk around on the beach in bare feet to help with grounding too. But ultimately I can't see how I'll overcome anxiety until I can stop running from the energy.
Stephen
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2012 : 3:59:56 PM
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Friend,
it sounds like sexual energy was surpressed in your family and you got the wrong impression, that sexual energy is not allowed and wrong and even dangerous. Do you come from a christian or muslim tradition?
Sexual energy is totally fine and natural, girls and women will be attracted by it and they could want to have more intimate love with you. This is natural, that is how the body-mind was designed to. No need to be ashamed or afraid of. Let the extacy shine, even your family is allowed to partake in your extatic radiance, no matter of mother, father, brothers, siters, friends, girls/women, animals, plants, the earth, sky or even god.
You practice tai chi which means, the energy in your etheric body flows smoothly which means, your attention will have great impact on the physical and on the subtle flows of life. If you put your attention to your genitals, the energy will flow there, become sexual in quality and if you put your attention somewhere else, this energy will move to that place bringing with it the sexual quality and mixing this with other qualities of that area. Put your attention on your heart and the energy will take heart-qualities. This is natural reaction and pure physics. You are not crazy, this works for everyone in the same way.
When it comes to headaches and uncomfortable feelings, you can be sure, that the reason is a mixture of tai chi, energy in general and your brain, which obviously is a little overwhelmed with too much energy. This is ok aswell, over time your body will for 100% sure adapt to more energy as your nervous system gets stronger and old unneseccary impressions get washed away.
Tai chi does promote this to some degree, but covers mostly the grosser energy fields in your body. As a byproduct this will lead to more refined cleaning and freeing of the energy flow and strengthening the brain and nervoussystem. Yogani also practiced tai chi, me too, but only as a supplementary practice for full spectrum overall cleaning the layers of body-mind.
The problem is the problem making, which is impression + mind-interpretation and both can be cleaned out of the system. Sex is sex, energy is energy, body is body and genitals are genitals. This is so. And it will still be so, before, during or after the mind-cheat. End the cheat by neutralizing its waves, DM and SBP do this, and your extatic energy will even increase, but the problem will be no more.
Wish you the best,
Love |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2012 : 10:50:39 PM
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| well you have to find what works for you, if you wish you can try meditating useing some of yoganis techniques, if the mantra is an overload one technique of his is focusing only on breath and you can place your attention between chakra three and four, its his solar enhancement I believe. maybe this will not overload. by meditating with your feet on the ground this is different then walking in a sense that it is constant contact with the ground while also attempting to be still, it may allow more energy to flow through. maybe these two together will be smoother for you. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2012 : 11:10:36 PM
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| a question for you, would you describe what your Ideal relationship would be with a partner, in you ideal world |
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mika
Australia
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2012 : 7:35:48 PM
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I haven't been raised in a religious family. I'm an atheist with some interest in buddhism and taoism but I'm not comfortable with all aspects of them. I didn't have any problems with sex before tantra.
I can't answer your question brother neil. I can't think about women or relationships anymore.
I've been through severe anxiety, depression and pain to the point of being stuck in bed for months but I've never suffered so much as I am suffering now. It is tearing me apart moment by moment, and it's getting worse every day.
I almost can't bear the weight of seeking help or a solution on top of what I'm already going through. I don't know if anyone understands what I'm going through. I don't understand it.
Thank you for your replies, I will learn what I can from them, but I don't see a solution here and I don't want to hang around with my pain if no one can help me.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2012 : 8:08:23 PM
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some thoughts and the reason that I asked the question about relationships. maybe a part of you never believed in the type of relationships you were having, maybe in your soul you believe in monogomay and sacradness of relationships, however outwardly you werent doing that. with normal sex, your not cultivating your energy and therefore maybe it did not bring up such strong feelings, however with tantra it may have allowed your energy to rise, which may increase negative feelings if you are not in a stable relationship. I dont know if that pertains to you.
If all you are doing is laying in bed and dont care to meditate or try other things for help then my suggestion would be to watch videos of mooji http://mooji.org/videos_tiru2012.html |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2012 : 02:12:19 AM
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| Anxiety loves to have something to attach itself to! In this case I would say it is feeding off your concerns about the sexual/kundalini energy which - although it is indeed a gift which many would love to have! - apparently was aroused before you were ready to handle it. So the energy disturbance is being magnified and exacerbated by the anxiety and it is a feedback loop. I agree with Little Turtle that if you are having thoughts of harming yourself then you definitely should seek professional help, preferably with a therapist who is familiar with yoga. It would be useful to have the therapist help you look at whatever it is you are afraid of and face it head-on in a supportive environment. I also would recommend doing the very basic AYP meditation practices. If seated meditation is impossible for you, and barefoot walking on the beach seems to help, then you might try very simple asana with slow, gentle moving and breathing (also barefoot on the beach) such as you can find here: http://www.heartofyoga.com/podcasts-and-videos/ "Principles of Practice" parts 1 and 2. [Note: Not an AYP practice, but very similar.] This is essentially moving meditation, which many people find useful for centering, grounding and calming, and will probably feel familiar to you, having done tai chi. Do not despair, your uncomfortable condition is temporary and in time as you learn to flow with the energy things will balance out. I hope this is helpful and I wish you all the best. |
Edited by - Radharani on Mar 28 2012 5:03:16 PM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2012 : 08:21:49 AM
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Hi Stephen,
There is plenty advice in this forum not get started with Tantric practices until and unless you have stability in a meditation/pranayama routine nor mix Taoist/macrocosmic orbit exercises with the AYP system. So if you want to find your balance and stability you need to drop whatever it is you're doing and start studying and practicing the main lessons from the beginning: http://www.aypsite.org/MainDirectory.html
But, because you already have energy problems, you may want to first read this lesson directly: http://www.aypsite.org/69.html
Eventhough you're atheist, you could still go ask a local Orthodox Christian priest for some help. He could advise and help because the help to a great extent will depend on his faith. I recommended this book on another part of the forums, maybe it will help you as well because it is a practical guide to surrender which may take off some of the tension you experience resisting the stuff that is going on inside you http://www.stnicholasdc.org/files/O...-Warfare.pdf
As they say:
No God, No Peace.
Know God, Know Peace.
Best of luck, Lili
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Edited by - Lili on Mar 29 2012 2:42:03 PM |
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_shakti_
Canada
48 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2012 : 08:02:16 AM
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Hi Mika, this is my first post here. I was planning on just reading through some threads and not jumping in for a while, but then I read your posts. I feel concerned due to the language you are using to describe your situation. I myself have a regular meditation practice and do yoga, and I am very interested in Tantra and have had some (ongoing) experiences with kundalini, but by profession I am a psychiatric nurse.
Having read what you have shared, I feel that you would be best served to put this all away for a while.. no meditation, no yoga, none of it. Not until you first get a handle on your anxiety and depression. It sounds like you have been through this before and that you recognize your depression and anxiety is at a severe level. What helped the last time?
You say: "I almost can't bear the weight of seeking help or a solution on top of what I'm already going through."
But what is the alternative Mika? Help is always available and you are able to reach out for it no matter how weighty it may seem.
As for this: "I don't know if anyone understands what I'm going through. I don't understand it."
The first step is opening up to someone. You have started to do so online here with strangers, now try doing so with friends or family (if you haven't already) and then to a counselor/doctor/psychologist. You don't even need to get into all the Tantra stuff, just deal with the depression and anxiety right now. Once that normalizes, you will be able to see the rest more clearly.
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mika
Australia
19 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 01:31:54 AM
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Thanks Brother Neil, Shakti, Lili and Radharani for your advice.
I am seeing people about this now, although no one yet that is particularly experienced in this area.
For a long time I've felt like I've been cursed after reading Mantak Chia's book, so it helps to hear you say that Kundalini is a gift, even though I don't see it that way.
I feel stuck because my anxiety and depression stem from this sexual problem and I know very little about how to treat that. Reading about it often just makes my anxiety worse… I'm just not comfortable with the ideas and can't understand many of them. So it would be best if I keep looking for someone who is familiar with these ideas that I can work with in person.
Until then I'll read your posts again, take a look at the links you've provided and stick to the most basic practices.
Stephen |
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vd007
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2012 : 1:18:45 PM
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Same problem with me here. Read Mantak Chia, David Deida and then did tantra for 2 years till 2008. I am in a total mess for the past 4 years. Nothing helps nothing works. I had a very solid training in buddhist meditation for Years and have meditated 3 to 4 thousand hours in my life.
Old gurus were wise in not letting these techniques get to the public. I used to be so happy before tantra and now there is no light at the end of the tunnel. |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2012 : 3:18:28 PM
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I worked both books on healing love of Mantak Chia, Tibetan tantra meeting a lama each three weeks with intense practice also of many other initiations and met a Jewish- freemasonic master in the same time. I got able to cope beyond former sex relations though i am not very virile with a good penis with an Osho pupil given the name heart mudra by him. Using Mantak Chia methods of no semen loss but many orgasms I could have intercourse with her for hours and even three days. Following her description she sought vainless a yin valley orgasm Michael Winn as fully initiated master pupil of Mantak Chia enlived and describes.
But I share much of the difficulties of the two people in this string wondering afterwards how I could survive the undigested energies of Mantak Chia. Presumably getting also clean energies with Mantak Chia and good success by the Tibetan mantra cleansing.
I rework with new and milder perspectives on Mantak Chia his free youtube course on healing love on youtube in his belief that raw sexual energy from the sexual region heals as jing energy each part of the body when smashed to them
"I'm not actually still practicing tantra. I started learning it for a few months around late 2008 and early 2009 and then stopped. I didn't have any tantric orgasms or anything. At that point I was able to feel sexual energy in my lower back, and then I became afraid to feel it.
Over time the feelings got stronger so that now all I have to do is think about them and they’re there, and I can feel them in other areas of my body like my head. And then it builds up and I get headaches and feel terrible in a way that I can't describe."
Well, there are obviously also other influences. There are sufficient remedies for such states also in the Mantak Chia system.
So the anxiety disorder is in chinese medicine a question of the kidneys turning to aggressiveness in liver, bitterness and despair in the heart and depression in the spleen and especially the lungs with suicidal ideas. This has to be cleansed as bad emotions or broken by a melting with opposing emotions. Chinese pharmacies and acupuncture has teas and individually composed herbs also online.
How is the feeling strength of the knees in the tai chi stance?
Axel
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mika
Australia
19 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2012 : 05:46:52 AM
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Wow vd007, that's really horrible to hear. I'm so sorry that this is happening to you as well.
I'm glad that I'm not alone in a way but it also means this problem could be more serious than I thought. And I'm even more terrified.
I can't believe that something like this exists in the world. I think of the innocence of children and then this and I can't believe it.
I wasn't sure before, but now that I know this can happen to other people... I really wish every copy of Mantak Chia's and David Deida's books could be destroyed. At the very least they should have strong warnings in them. If I had been given a warning, I'm pretty sure I would have listened to it and stayed away.
I would never recommend that anyone learn this without the help of an instructor and then only if they don't have any existing physical or mental health conditions.
If you don't mind me asking, I'd like to know whether you had any health conditions before starting tantra.
Currently I'm seeing a Chinese medicine practitioner, trying acupuncture and taking herbs. I'm also seeing a psychiatrist who is looking for a sex therapist for me and soon I'll contact a local qigong instructor. I don't know whether this will help but I have to try.
At the moment though, the only thing that really helps me is valium and I save that for emergencies.
Axel, I have knee pain and my legs aren't very strong anymore so that makes tai chi difficult but I still do it. Is that what you're asking?
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2012 : 08:30:32 AM
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Dear Mika,
if it is not a false Tai chi position falsely bowing the knees weak knees hint to kidney problems which may be depleted from energies causing already this way fear also in sexual intercourse. If the legs are to weak for Tai Chi more static Qigong is advisable for getting the necessary strength.
It seems you never had a training with Mantak Chia using much the six healing sounds. you find them also from other masters on youtube.
The kidney sound may be most beneficial clearing out the fear and unwanted energies you remark. So you make the organs smile as their positive side and smile to the organs also.
A refilling of the kidneys is possible by gripping and moving the kneecaps circularily clockwise like a acupuncture needle brings this way energy and stimulates, anticlockwise it takes energy and sedates. At best over 100 times both knees the same time.
Axel |
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Lovatube01
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 10:04:50 AM
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| To tell the truth, I have never practiced tantra and it seems something new for me. Is it really so difficult and reguires so much energy. I am really curious!!! |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2012 : 1:03:30 PM
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Hi Lovatube01,
if it is tantra that appeals to you, it is as good a place as any to get acquainted with spiritual practices. The Tantra Lessons link shows a good overview of what it's about and where to get started. You will see that the way things are presented here are very down to earth and to the point. It isn't some obscure philosophy that is the focus, but the commonalities of the nervous system itself in all of its variety. Taken in moderation and at a level appropriate to our current inner resources, it can begin to work right away. But as anything, it is as the lessons say, a marathon and not a sprint |
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 6:08:15 PM
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| I was a new bee myself till last month. After undergoing Tantra experiences, I realize that it is not every one. It requires enormous physical pratice, mental practice and self restraint. Age and living circumstancces are other criteria. If Kundalini awakening is the only goal for which you want to use tantra, then you can choose alternative methods. |
Edited by - yogishankar on Jul 02 2012 4:15:16 PM |
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2012 : 4:13:16 PM
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I would like to share a general advice.
People who are into family life (already married) or those who has sexual thoughts: when they practice prana related techniques (Kriya Yoga, Hatha Yoga,etc), Kundalini tries to go up -
Since they are into sex, romatic behaviour/thoughts,etc as Apana goes down, Kundalini follows and tries to go down. This will create tension in the system, which will lead to kundalini emergencies.
For such people, Bhakti Yoga (mind related techniques) are safe.
In the case of Prana techniques, you are "pushing up" the kundalini by force. In the case of Bhakti Yoga (mind related techniques), God residing in heart will "pull up" the Kundalini - when ever it is safe.
In both cases Kundalini is going up. In one system it is "Pushing Up", in another it is "Pulling Up".
To conclude, if you are living by youself and want to be safe, Mind/Intellect related techniques are "safe". Eg: Devotion, Self Inquiry "Who am I",etc |
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