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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 20 2011 : 11:09:56 AM
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| I've been practicing DM for a few months now. I try not to analyze what happens during meditation, but sometimes my mind gets the better of me. For some time, when I meditated, I noticed the mantra became very distorted, like a mumble in my head. It wasn't really I AM at all. But at the same time I knew it was. I took this to be the mantra becoming fuzzy like Yogani says, refining. But lately, just over the past few days, the mantra has become very distinct and clear, as if I was saying it perfectly on the surface of my mind. But I'm not concentrating, and even though the sound is very clear and drawn-out like a bell, it feels very deep. When I think it in this clear way it feels almost blissful. But my thoughts tell me I'm going backwards, that the mantra is supposed to refine and become quieter. Am I doing incorrect practice? Any advice? Thanks to all. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2011 : 12:42:19 PM
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Hi Stillpool,
you might find this post helpful, as well as other points in that topic. |
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2011 : 04:41:32 AM
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Hi Stillpool,
If you have a choice of a clear mantra sound and an indistinct/fuzzy one - then the fuzzy one is the one to go with. Don't force yourself though. If you start getting thoughts of "I am going backwards! etc - they are just that- thoughts - time to go back to the mantra at a comfortable level.
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2011 : 2:28:22 PM
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Thanks for the answers.
So, I know there's no "goal" in meditation, but at the same time there kinda is. So let me ask, is the "goal" to have the mantra, or is the "goal" to rest in silence, if the silence is there without the mantra? For instance, sometimes it feels like I kind of slip between the thoughts, or more like I slip behind them, I watch them without getting caught up in them. The thought of the mantra sometimes passes through this silence, then there are thoughts, both the mantra and the thoughts (when I'm settled like this) seem to only refer me back to the silence. Is this ok? Or should I stay with the mantra? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2011 : 2:48:50 PM
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Hi Stillpool,
During meditation it is O.K. to get lost in thoughts, and it is also O.K. to get lost in silence. If you notice that you are lost in thoughts, then you pick up the mantra again, and gently favour that over whatever thoughts are moving through your mind. If you are lost in silence, then favouring the mantra isn't an option, as it would first require the noticing that you are off the mantra, and the question of whether or not you should return to it. That is a thought, and at that point the mantra should be favoured over the thought of whether or not you should pick up the mantra again. All of this can happen at the level of the witness, where you recognise that you are the observer of all that is happening and that you are not part of it, or affected by it.
Neither the mantra, nor the thoughts, nor the silence, or the witness are the goal. The goal is something quite other. If you stick with the simple procedure of the meditation, it will flower and blossom within you. The nectar of the flower is the goal.
Christi |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2011 : 3:16:29 PM
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The 'goal' as I understood it is to allow the mantra meditation to work for us. This is done by following the easy procedure, which I believe in time also eases self-doubts and other mental baggage provided one keeps at it regularly.
It is said that by losing the mantra and easily picking it up again is a sort of movement that dislodges samskaras, which is like window cleaning to let more and more light through, or perhaps lots of inner light all at once. During the process, a lot of dust tends to fly up, making it appear darker, but the cleaning goes on regardless, which is why we are told to keep at it and not worry about the effects (with the exception of self-pacing) which vary with time and between people.
The 'goal' I don't think can be isolated as an either-or condition. It works together, as a whole, just like the routine which makes it holistic. Breath meditation is an alternative, but it is recommended for those who are (or even become) oversensitive to meditation.
Favor the habit of returning to the mantra whenever you are off of it, as opposed to analysing and remembering what happened or did not happen. If you have a choice, it is to gently return to the mantra at whatever level you find it. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2011 : 3:19:35 PM
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| Christi: thanks for the clarification. didn't see your answer when I posted :) |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2011 : 2:59:41 PM
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Thank you all for being so kind and helpful.
Is there a difference during meditation between having thoughts and actively thinking? In other words, is it possible to be meditating correctly if I think the mantra once, then there is a long pause with thoughts going by but I'm not grabbing them, I'm just letting them go, then at some point I notice that I am actually thinking, so I come back and think the mantra again, and again let go til I engage in thinking again? Is this correct, or do Ikeep the mantra going no matter how subtle of obvious the thought is, or even if I'm not thinking but I notice thoughts? Does this make sense?
Thanks |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2011 : 3:08:40 PM
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| Is there a difference between having thoughts and actively thinking? For instance, during meditation, say I think the mantra once. Then I notice silence, and in that silence there are thoughts floating around, but I'm not grabbing at them. At this point do I just rest? BUt then I notice that I have latched on to one of those thoughts and I'm actively thinking. At this point I come back to the mantra and again let go. Is this correct? Or do I repeat it back to back at a closer rate no matter if I'm actively thinking, but just because I notice thoughts? Thanks all for being so helpful and kind. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2011 : 3:45:04 PM
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Hi Stillpool,
Whenever you notice that you are off the mantra, you gently come back to the mantra. This is the case if you find you are actively thinking, or there are simply subtle thoughts happening, or you are merged in silence. So there is no point at which you actively choose to just rest. You always come back to the mantra when you notice that you are off it.
When you come back to the mantra you come back at the same rate of repetition that you left it at, and at the same level of clarity/fuzziness.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Nov 22 2011 4:07:03 PM |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2011 : 4:02:37 PM
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Thank you so much  |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2011 : 10:34:13 AM
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| Wouldn't letting go of the mantra in favor of the silence that has been cultivated by using the mantra lead to a deeper experience of silence, or awakening, or freedom from our habitual thinking? Coming back to the mantra when my thoughts are so abstract and still seems to disturb the silence. In other words, even the mantra is just another thought. Shouldn't even this thought be released in favor of silence and stillness? Thanks again. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2011 : 12:46:39 PM
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 let the over analysis commence.
Welcome Stillpool,
You do let go of the mantra automatically, we are not trying to concentrate on the mantra, or attempting to lose the mantra Within the meditation there will be periods of space caused when the mantra is lost. Just pick up the mantra again. Sometimes this can remain for the entire session.
Some branches of Yoga do meditate on stillness/silence. While I'm not going to say that is wrong (nothing can be), it is generally accepted that meditating on silence actually dulls the mind. Meditate on nothing, get nothing.
Yoga is about not pushing away and not grasping. So we neither grasp the stillness or the mantra. We let the spaces come when they do without trying, we favour the mantra but only gently. It all happens naturally just by following the AYP instructions.
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Edited by - karl on Nov 24 2011 1:07:35 PM |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2011 : 1:21:26 PM
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Hi Stillpool
There will be quite a bit of faith needed to start a practice and to keep going in the beginning, but if you persevere you won't regret it.
The mantra has a vibrational quality which is tangible when ecstatic conductivity starts flowing. If you just sit in silence you won't be inducing the powerful energetic effects of repeating the mantra. That's why some AYPers need to self pace with meditation without the mantra. |
Edited by - woosa on Nov 24 2011 1:22:03 PM |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2011 : 2:01:39 PM
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A certain someone once said "An ounce of real practice is worth ten pounds of talk. Try and see." Any guesses as to who? 
Stillpool: there is also the matter of the effect of the mantra on the subtle nervous system which is also covered in lesson 22 and others.
Before coming to AYP I too used to incorporate a big part of meditation with 'sitting in silence'. After a few months of using the mantra, I find now there is plenty of silence even with the mantra, at least much more so then when first taking on the mantra. |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 2:56:20 PM
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I'm still having some confusion about the matter of the mantra choosing its own pace, frequency, etc.
If I choose whatever type of repetition that is comfortable, easy, is that the same thing as the mantra choosing its own pronunciation, speed, etc? Or do I start the repetition in whatever way I choose, but then let go and wait to hear the mantra in whatever way it chooses to sound?
Thanks again for the support. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 3:35:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stillpool
I'm still having some confusion about the matter of the mantra choosing its own pace, frequency, etc.
If I choose whatever type of repetition that is comfortable, easy, is that the same thing as the mantra choosing its own pronunciation, speed, etc? Or do I start the repetition in whatever way I choose, but then let go and wait to hear the mantra in whatever way it chooses to sound?
Thanks again for the support.
You initiate the repetition. Just keep repeating it. At some point it takes less effort and becomes quite automatic. It's hardly ever automatic during the initial few seconds . Just jump in at a pace that feels right. It will change session to session, sometimes feeling laboured, loud and with bell clear diction, like a tv announcer, next it will be a mumble.
Anytime you are thinking "I'm not doing this right etc" gently go back to the mantra/start repeating the Mantra. Anytime you think "it's me that is repeating the mantra" ....yea, you guessed, go gently back to the mantra. |
Edited by - karl on Nov 28 2011 3:41:38 PM |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 3:49:01 PM
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| Thanks Karl. Very helpful advice! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 6:45:36 PM
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Hi Stillpool,
There isn't ever a point where you deliberately let go of the mantra and enter silence/ stillness. It will happen of it's own accord. When it does, it often happens when the mantra is faint and subtle (but not always). If it does happen, at the point when you notice you are off the mantra, gently pick it up again. It may only require one repetition before you are gone again into stillness/silence. Or you may be back on the mantra for the remainder of the session. It is not important.
The only important thing is to practice according to the procedure given.
Christi |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 09:54:48 AM
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| I just wanted to add my appreciation for all the patience and support and information all of you have provided me with on this forum. In the past, I tried out Kriya Yoga. There was so much secrecy, and if I had a problem or question, I had to write (snail mail) for advice and by the time I got a reply the problem was either forgotten or replaced by a new problem. This is not meant to discredit that organization. We do the best we can with what we've got. I'm just thankful that we now have AYP and this community of people practicing together, helping each other along the way. Thanks again. |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2011 : 11:19:44 PM
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I read this today in the Lessons.
"We begin with a thought, not focusing on any meaning, just picking up the repetition of the thought of the mantra's sound easily, on the edge of letting go. We let the mantra go its own way naturally to less and less – this is the simplest and most efficient way to dive into the infinite sea of bliss consciousness within us."
Could someone elaborate on the meaning of "on the edge of letting go..."?
Also, "We let the mantra go its own way naturally to less and less..."
Is this the same as repeating the mantra without trying to keep it in the forefront of the mind? As in just letting it run on as a repetition in the background of the mind? Or does it mean we are favoring the silence over the sound? Or am I missing it entirely?
Thanks for listening (and answering)
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 03:02:06 AM
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On the edge of letting go = very gently favouring the Mantra without effort. Imagine holding onto a balloon string so lightly that any breath of wind might blow it from your hand.
Letting it go to less and less = not a conscious thought, just relax your grip on the balloon string without any concern that it might float away. You might equally find that you are gripping the string like a madman that's Ok as well.
Always remember (this is the learning to ride the bike bit). When you are noticing that you are holding too tightly, or your not being gentle enough........YOU ARE OFF THE MANTRA........you are attached to another thought, analysing the technique. The mantra has taken a secondary position. So, we just accept the thought about not doing the Mantra properly, while gently making the Mantra the primary thought once again.
Even if you spend the entire session worrying about what the Mantra should be doing it really doesn't matter. It is only when you notice that the Mantra is not the primary thought that you pick up the Mantra again......FULLY PREPARED TO go back to worrying about the technique if that is what happens. That is holding the string lightly. |
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 8:35:30 PM
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Karl,
Thanks. Very clear description. Thanks for the help. The analogy of the balloon, priceless  .
So really I need to stop getting hooked by these questions that keep coming up in my head, right? In the end, none of them matter. Just the simple procedure of DM. And if I just stick to the procedure all of my questions will take care of themselves in time, right? I know this is an easy path, but it still takes a lot of trust. Not of others or of technique, but trust in myself. Not always easy!
I know it must be frustrating to have a "new guy" come along with the same old questions that have been asked and answered a million times before. Thanks for making me feel right at home.
Stillpool |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 9:04:17 PM
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It feels very familiar in a good way
Yes just do the practice, the questions will always be coming up, they just change as you change. In many respects there is no requirement to practice at all, but we need it as a guide. |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 9:21:57 PM
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| Yes, it takes care of itself in time as you continue practicing. Don't worry about getting hooked on questions, or analyzing the procedure - it is normal. Trying not to question is one more thing that is not the mantra. Don't fight it, don't favor it. If you notice it's happening, just go back to the mantra. Losing the mantra (however that may happen) and picking it back up is correct meditation. So every time you wonder "am I doing it right?" and then do it again, you did it right! It's OK to have thoughts and mantra at the same time, just gently favor the mantra over the thoughts in that situation. |
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