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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 24 2006 : 4:10:53 PM
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Hi Shanti:
What I have in mind is someone (or several someones) who can give folks a nudge on setting up group meditations, and offer encouragement and support on how to do it. You know that having a group meditation is pretty easy to do, because you are doing it now. But for some it might seem complicated. It isn't really. It is just a matter of asking a few folks if they are interested, getting a hold of some Deep Meditation books, and opening the door on a day of the week that suits everyone.
I recommend meditating first. One person can keep the time, so the others don't have to think about it. Then, after coming out slowly, some discussion can take place as the group would like. If there are no sharings or questions, a few sentences or paragraphs from an AYP book, or other relevant writings, can be read to stimulate the group. That almost never fails to open up an interesting discussion. Most people experiencing this simple format are amazed at how easily it flows. Something deep inside us becomes free to express in that kind of group environment, perhaps for the first time in our lives. Egos are checked at the door, just like here in the forum, so it is often a special experience and everyone walks away with something valuable -- some nice inner silence, clarity and new understandings about their path and life.
It can also be done the other way -- discussion first and then meditation at the end -- but that is usually not as relaxed as the former approach, especially for beginners who are likely to have experiences to share right after their first meditations. Even we "old pros" might be more in-the-groove on discussing practices and experiences after meditation than before.
Also, with beginners in the group, it might be best to limit the group meditation to 10-15 minutes until sure that everyone will be all right. Group self-pacing, you know.
Of course, group meditations are not a replacement for our daily practice at home, or wherever we happen to be at the appointed time.
A lesson on group meditations can be found here: http://www.aypsite.org/37.html
And, as someone mentioned recently, group meditations are covered in the Secrets of Wilder novel also. Boy, are they!
So, if you are encouraging group meditations there, it is only one small step to be encouraging them everywhere. This AYP cheerleader can use all the help he can get. 
The guru is in you.
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2006 : 9:44:32 PM
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| Thanks Shanti for bringing me here. I hope it is not too late for me to seek info on this forum. Still want to know whether old practitioners (whatever system they may have been following, and new ones can be mixed. Where we used to conduct sessions and workshops it was a no-no. In workshops, we (the ones conducting it)often all felt adverse affects, which, we were told, was the influence of the heavier prana of the new group. But newcomers also varied a lot. Some would get Ujjayi breathing in a pat, and some would take days if not weeks. I see a new perspective in the 'pay' thing. A friend has been almost begging for a couple of us to go to the USA to teach, but insisted that no one would show interest if we taught free (includes asanas, etc). And they could not understand things like arrange flight tickets and place, and be taught. So I dropped the matter... also, what I'd learnt before had strong 'Vedic' or rather, 'Hindu' overtones... Yogani's method takes care of that. Perhaps flexibility in this as in other things is to be learnt for the practices to reach and benefit everybody. The site and the books can also be promoted this way. But perhaps Yogani will address my concern about mixing old and new practitioners in group sessions, and why there are adverse effects on some. Should one identify 'more sensitive' ones and segregate them in a separate group in such sessions? |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2006 : 11:21:59 PM
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Sadhak wrote: "But perhaps Yogani will address my concern about mixing old and new practitioners in group sessions, and why there are adverse effects on some."
Hi Sadhak:
If we are are going to provide everyone on the planet with the same opportunity, then all the doors must be flung wide open and everyone should have the option to come in -- it is their choice. The arbitrary "slicing and dicing" must end -- that is another phrase for "sectarian hierarchy."
My opinion is that the benefits of inviting everyone to come together in spiritual practices in an open way far outweigh the minor disruptions that may be encountered in something like a group meditation. It is increased purification and opening. That's all. And we have ways to deal with it.
This forum, and AYP in general, is a good example of blending old timers with newcomers, and many different spiritual backgrounds as well. The synergies are amazing, and it works. Yes, the gears do grind occasionally, and we work through it. The USA is another example of this kind of synergistic phenomenon -- a melting pot of many cultures and peoples, each retaining their roots. They said it couldn't be done. The fact is it can be done, and the whole is far greater than the sum of the parts.
It can happen in yoga too -- a worldwide democratization of the tools and knowledge. That is worth far more than preventing a few grinding gears here and there. Chances are they will grind anyway, and why not have it be among friends?
Reminder: Self-pacing works in groups too, as needed ... there are ways to deal with excess energy flow in just about any setting ... that is really what we are talking about here. Who are we to decide who is ready for a spiritual energy surge and who is not? That is what happens in group meditations. If people are feeling it in the room, they will be feeling it down the block, on the other side of town, and on the other side of the world. That is the purpose of group meditations -- to soak the world with inner silence. So it is for everyone, both in the room and everywhere ... better to be in the room if it is not too much, and each can decide that for themselves -- self-pacing.
Some beginners can conduct more energy than old timers, which means they are old souls disguised as beginners. Let them all in!
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 09:24:44 AM
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Hi Sadhak,
I know your question was directed to Yogani, and he has answered your question very well. I agree with him, this concept that we have, where "WE" decide who is at what level seems so flawed. Each one of our nervous system is wired for spirituality, just a matter of opening the doors to it. SO "Let them all in! "
In my group, most of them don't have the concept of doing meditation to find self, they are meditating to become better people.. All of them agree that they feel calmer during their daily life, the little little irritations don't break them down, they are level headed when they react with their kids and better able to handle every day situations. .. one of them said, "I don't find it necessary to yell at my child anymore.. I can just talk to him and get things done... also a lot that seemed like it was a big deal.. I can just let it go now". They are doing so much better than I was in a month and a half.. I was focused of enlightenment.. I only saw the big picture .. but they don't see that.. they appreciate the little things.. where as I did not see the little things that were changing in me.. and kept feeling I was getting nowhere.. I need to try harder.. and then trying harder and step back because of the energy overloads.. it was like 3 steps forward 2 steps back... So deciding who gets what is not up to us.. I think everyone has the right to know about this, then if they want to stick around fine.. if not, that is fine too. Our aim should be to introduce them to this, then it is their choice.. and they can do it for whatever reason suits them.
About separating the sensitive ones.. Yogani did not address it.. but I don't agree with that.. There were 2 of them who were/are really sensitive. One was after meditation.. she felt light headed for about a couple of hours after the session.. Well, we got her to lie down after the session, and at home too she would lie down and at times fall asleep for 15-20 min.. but that helped.. and now she is fine with her 5 min rest. She missed one of the sessions.. and I realized I really missed her energy... I think she was adding the most to that group. The other one, from the second week was so restless.. and since I don't meditate I was getting irritated with her constant movements.. guess what, no one else even realized she was noisy.. so I guess the sensitive ones can be kept in the same room. The only thing I do tell them is, if for any reason they feel like they cannot stay in meditation any more.. to slowly get out of it.. relax with their eyes closed so they don't disturb the others.
OK, now that is enough.. Hope I helped a little.
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 10:12:24 AM
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Hi Yogani, Shanti,
quote:
The arbitrary "slicing and dicing" must end -- that is another phrase for "sectarian hierarchy."
You know, the more I get to know of this system, and the general demeanor to people on the path, the more happy and excited I get.
I was anxious because I didn't feel competent or even able to do all this separating. I do so agree that slicing and dicing must end. I find it quite cumbersome and heavy to move along in an atmosphere where there is 'us' and 'them'. And that must follow with everyone else too. It must be this embracing everyone that can be felt here that gets everyone going.
I see self pacing is also about taking responsibility for oneself with experience, observation, and understanding, instead of passively handing over oneself to someone who should take the responsibility of you. Is that right?
Thanks Yogani.
Shanti, I will try out this lying down for as long as you want antidote to anyone who is feeling tired or anything. Seems the sensible thing to do. Will let you know when any group here gets going.
But there seem to be so many things to ask... I'm getting a different perspective on each aspect... and vibing so well with it... there seems a lot of learning and unlearning to do. Bear with me... I'm only on lesson 106 or so, and all this interaction on forums. Chewing on everything, digesting well, and really relishing this fare!!!
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 11:46:08 AM
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quote:
Sadhak said: But there seem to be so many things to ask... I'm getting a different perspective on each aspect... and vibing so well with it... there seems a lot of learning and unlearning to do. Bear with me..
Hi Sadhak,
Keep asking, and someone here will keep answering... and then one day you will just get tired of asking and follow Jim's advice and "Just let this practice be like brushing your teeth and don't hope for anything big. Or small. Or anything. Just do it without hope."
Have Fun.
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 12:34:39 PM
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Sadhak, you asked: "I see self pacing is also about taking responsibility for oneself with experience, observation, and understanding, instead of passively handing over oneself to someone who should take the responsibility of you. Is that right?"
Yes, that is right. As Yogani says 'the guru is in you' and others say 'the master is within'. That self-pacing will keep you progressing smoothly and help keep unwanted side-effects at bay.
You also said: "the more I get to know of this system, and the general demeanor to people on the path, the more happy and excited I get."
Indeed. I whole-heartedly concur. Beautifully stated.
Light and love,
Kathy
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 3:02:31 PM
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Hi sadhak
It's beautiful, isn't it? This opening of yoga for all is just one emerging tip of a giant iceberg. My teacher offers in much the same way as does yogani. I am privelaged to participate in my own clunky, growing way
In emerging Peace, alan |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 7:23:11 PM
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quote:
I was anxious because I didn't feel competent or even able to do all this separating. I do so agree that slicing and dicing must end. I find it quite cumbersome and heavy to move along in an atmosphere where there is 'us' and 'them'. And that must follow with everyone else too. It must be this embracing everyone that can be felt here that gets everyone going.
You know Sadhak.. while I was in India, I really wanted nothing to do with religion and did not know that religion and spirituality were 2 different things. I always wanted God, but was never attracted by the "us" and "them"... the join us and no one else... do as I tell you or else.. I was a real rebel when it came to following rules and rituals.. most people thought I was a big time paapi (sinner) and was definitely in God's bad books... there was no salvation for me.. Maybe they were right... I still cannot convince people back home (except my parents) about Yogani's teachings.. their attitude is "spirituality from a firang... you are still the same.. haven't got any better with age"..
There was however always a very Strong pull toward Ma Kali though and I guess when that is there nothing can stop you.. right?? Yogani and AYP rescued me.. I have never been happier.. |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2006 : 05:50:46 AM
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Join the club!!!
OH you already have haven't you 
RICHARD |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2006 : 11:02:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by azaz932001
Join the club!!!
OH you already have haven't you
RICHARD
Yes, I have. Thank you everyone. It is brushing teeth, Shanti. But it isn't absent minded brushing teeth. It is with complete awareness. And if it weren't for that, you couldn't tell anyone what to do.
Today I have a very upset mother coming to me. Her first child was slow, and now the second child has been diagnosed with Down syndrome. She is terrified, depressed, and feels helpless. I will be initiating her into the AYP method. I will be telling her some things about how to deal with this. But there must be that one something that I ought to tell her for it to really help. What is it? Today when I got up from my morn session, I was quite clear on how to put across things to her... now it's a little fuzzy. Will appreciate help from anyone. These are the tests of a pilgrim on the path, right? Yoga has the answers. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 10:38:59 AM
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"It is brushing teeth, Shanti. But it isn't absent minded brushing teeth. It is with complete awareness."
But it is like absent minded brushing Sadhak.. The more consious awareness you put into it.. the less your true self will have a chance to show itself.. more your mind will control it.. The mind has a way of talking over your self.. hiding it. In meditation we are trying to find that true self.. the silence that hides behind the mind.. the mind is nothing but constant chatter.. we are trying to go beyond that.. and in order to do that we have to give up on the mind awareness..
"And if it weren't for that, you couldn't tell anyone what to do."
Why would you have to tell anyone what to do.. its all there in the lessons.. I don't tell anyone what to do.. I point them to the lessons and the lessons do the talking..
You yourself gave us a perfect example...
"Today when I got up from my morn session, I was quite clear on how to put across things to her... now it's a little fuzzy"
After meditation,, when your mind was not in control. your inner silence was your awareness.. you knew exactly what you should say to put your point across to her.. but later in the day.. when your mind took over and was in full control over you.. things became fuzzy...
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Edited by - Shanti on Jun 04 2006 12:00:49 PM |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 10:01:35 PM
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quote:
But it is like absent minded brushing Sadhak.. The more consious awareness you put into it.. the less your true self will have a chance to show itself.. more your mind will control it.. The mind has a way of talking over your self.. hiding it. In meditation we are trying to find that true self.. the silence that hides behind the mind.. the mind is nothing but constant chatter.. we are trying to go beyond that.. and in order to do that we have to give up on the mind awareness..
Right ho Shanti. I get some of what you are saying. Will try to shift my absent mind out of daily activities to meditation. |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 12:33:19 AM
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This seems to be the spot for bunging this in. Just posting on small groups around. Hope others will too... now that the long distance group has come alive. Here's to more groups!
This time there were 6 of us in the group, and happily, everyone participated; even one who used to never open his mouth. The effects of the open system are delightfully apparant already. I will eschew timekeeping in favour of joining the group in meditation next time. This time I didn't. But noticed that I became suddenly very tired and dried out after the session, though I was feeling quite light and perky before. Is there a connection? Or was it merely sleep deprivation manifesting after a period of time? One of them was reluctant to drop nadi shodhan and simha pranayam ... I told him that he might end up over cleaning if he did continue. And sure enough, he complained of pain during the meditation. That day he had re-commenced the two pranayams after dropping them for a week. I'm going to keep reporting on the group, so that your feedback is in place too, for the group side to evolve in a manner that can be easily replicated. |
Edited by - sadhak on Jul 04 2006 12:47:10 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 11:25:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
But it is like absent minded brushing Sadhak.. The more consious awareness you put into it.. the less your true self will have a chance to show itself.. more your mind will control it
Shanti, this just shifts the mind to another level of control, as it dutifully starts searching for the true self. It's got to be, as you say, absent-minded tooth brushing. Or, maybe even better, sit in the chair and let the cosmic barber do his work. That's it. Don't add on. Any adding on just shifts the camera position. In other words: "don't just do something, STAND there!"
Yogani, do you really think the group thing is the way to disseminate AYP? It would heighten the focus on experiences (because participants will share them - really, that's all they'd have to talk about), and, as we've seen, even very experienced AYP practitioners have loads of experiential aims.
You had the great insight of not focusing on "feelings" during practice, but, rather, on feelings during subsequent real-world engagement. So maybe folks ought to meditate solo, then have AYP cocktail parties where they talk about sports and politics, and give each other feedback, week by week, on their apparent social smoothness. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jul 04 2006 11:30:26 AM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 1:04:14 PM
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Hi Jim:
AYP groups and gatherings are inevitable. They will happen even if they are not mentioned. And there are real benefits, as many are noticing. Indeed, group practice is a powerful tool to help accelerate the rise of world consciousness.
We really haven't scratched the surface yet in AYP on groups, retreats, and organized educational programs. There are endless possibilities -- all of them good for raising individual and world consciousness.
All of these things need some structure, and we are in the very early stages of filling it in. Several have gone on retreats and have asked for routines to do there, and suggestions have been offered to optimize progress and avoid overloads in an intensive practice situation. I can see large AYP group retreats someday. There is so much to do! Eventually it will be done, definitely not all by me.
As for the open discussions on experiences, it's sort of like democracy, you know ... sometimes messy, but much better than the alternative. Some of us old timers have seen the alternative, living under hierarchies that prohibit discussions on experiences, and it does not work.
As long as we are clear about real spiritual progress being beyond the multitude of our experiences, no matter how long it takes us to catch on, eventually we will. It was mentioned way early in the original AYP lessons -- experiences will be there and we will favor the practice. The way I see it, we can't hide from our own evolutionary process. The more we know about it the better. If we try and sweep it under the rug, what good will it do? The rug is an experience too!
It is the same with the guru. No matter what we say, many will stay focused on the external guru. That's okay. But where is the guru really? Inside, beyond our external experiences of guru. It is the same thing. In time, we grow and understand what is real and what is a reflection of our inner condition and bhakti. In stillness we know.
In the meantime, we can talk about it. It is good for our motivation to see the signposts along the highway, ours or someone else's, as long as we don't get stuck staring at them. Better to be practicing than gawking at the scenery.
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2006 : 9:20:40 PM
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It's been 4 months since we started this meditation group. Just thought I would share something..
Last Friday we were talking about meditation during our regular group meeting...
All of these ladies have been doing 20 min med every day generally twice.. along with asanas and alternate nostril breathing.. nothing else.. no spinal breathing, no mudra or bandhas.. they have all told me that they feel they are changing.. they have become calmer in their reactions and daily life.. they surprise themselves sometimes by how they react to situations now.. So, like Yogani says in his books and lessons.. meditation is the main thing and it can take you all the way.. well that is true.. it can change you more that you think possible.. They are all 100% converted meditation-er.. if there is any such thing.. they all look forward to being together on Friday.. and try their best not to miss any of their sessions at home or the group meetings...
Thank you Yogani... for introducing us all to such a wonderful and powerful thing. |
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Group Meditation
