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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 11 2011 : 12:59:28 PM
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Hi All,
I have consciously decided that I would live in the world and carry out my karma/duties rather than renouncing.
All my spiritual attainments were great so far, until recently where I am attracted to every female that I see. It doesnt really matter who it is. The weird thing is I know I also love them as well. I just dont know how to put these things in words. I am unable to discuss this with my wife and she is unable to see things the way they are. I also know that I have some trouble with women. If I could overcome it, maybe it will open up myself to new dimensions etc. Here is the question.
Another married lady has expressed interest in me and I have been running away from her ever since. Came across an article on vamachara/lsd recently, which can push a person from one limitation to another. There is an escort that calls herself guru maayi or haakini from Boston, who claims to be very good in vamachara/neotantra etc. Is there another ethical way of going about removing my limitation? Although I have less confidence in counselling etc.
At the expense of sounding crazy I have laid out my limitations, What should I do? Please show me a way. Also know that I do not merely see women as sense objects but goddesses to be devoted to.
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2011 : 11:34:02 PM
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| Hi, Sivasambho! I was a renunciate for 14 years and I must say, it is much easier than being in relationship. However, you can certainly pursue your spiritual path in the context of a relationship in the service of bhakti/karma yoga. You describe "limitations" which are not entirely clear to me. You did say you are attracted to all women. Attraction per se is normal and not necessarily a "limitation" unless we feel compelled to act upon the attraction. Since you are married and your wife (apparently) does not want an open relationship, the only "ethical" way to resolve this is practicing yoga with your wife. She, after all, is equally "a goddess to be devoted to" as all the other women - right? I don't think practicing with a priestess without your wife's consent would remove your limitations; if anything it would only make your situation more difficult. You should focus on seeing the Goddess in your wife and learn tantra with her. I hope that is helpful. |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 01:22:10 AM
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Hi Jamie,
Thanks for your message. I used to be this way being attracted to women a lot and had relationships etc. However after doing my practises, have been visualizing all women as my sisters and mothers and quiet honestly I seldom had any intrigue in this period. I felt like I myself was one among women and feeling vulnerable and all. Though I continued my marital relationship with my wife as a duty.
From what you said it appears, I am getting to become normal again in a social setting. But maybe the duality is what I didnt have and its probably bothering me. The limitation I had mentioned is just bondage, not being able to let go of past and sync in the current moment. If I start doing my shiva prayers, I will be the sweetest husband ever and the sweetest person around anyone. Should I forget this goddess thing once for all and just go back to Shiva? With both the aspects of divinity, I figure I might be a productive person in society. Your advice of talking this stuff with my wife, will not work, she already doesnt want me to yoga and she wont do it as well. She gets insecure as I am detached a lot at times. I made a goal of making money etc, now this is why I was thinking probably vamachara etc to just get my confidence up. I know my problems, mostly I am a person in the mind and never act out. This has to go out the window, and I have to become a dynamic person. Thought mother shakti would help me here. Now Neither mom nor dad cares... Oh well, I wish life was simple! |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 08:13:12 AM
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Your wife probably doesn't like yoga because it seems to take you away from her. If you meditate twice a day as in the lessons, over time it makes you peaceful and more in the moment, which she should see as a good thing. Then if you try to see the goddess in her as much as you do in all other women, it should remove any dislike she has for yoga.
And that's where good romance starts. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Oct 12 2011 08:14:14 AM |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 08:31:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Your wife probably doesn't like yoga because it seems to take you away from her. If you meditate twice a day as in the lessons, over time it makes you peaceful and more in the moment, which she should see as a good thing. Then if you try to see the goddess in her as much as you do in all other women, it should remove any dislike she has for yoga.
And that's where good romance starts.
Thanks Etherfish. After this intrigue with the other married lady my pleasure center is no more at the top of my head rather now its in swathishtana. I dont know if I should pursue her as well and finish this off in the bed before getting back to the practises? by the way I do meditation twice a day and surya namaskar and kriyas in the morning. Though my meditations are currently filled with passion and a strong urge to have sex. |
Edited by - sivasambho on Oct 12 2011 08:33:17 AM |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 08:32:11 AM
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Hi Sivasambho! I agree with Jamie being attracted to women is completely normal. I also agree that seeing an escort service against your wife's wishes will not bring you abiding inner silence or lasting peace and bliss.
But I was wondering if you would mind helping me understand a few things... What yoga practices do you currently do? Or if you currently don't do any yoga practice, what would you like to do? What affect does yoga practice have on you? Please forgive the many questions... I'm trying to understand why your doing yoga would make your wife feel insecure.
I understand about wanting to break out of the shell of your mind, and I'm sure you can do it. I don't think the escort service will help you, but a path will show itself. Keep your chin up! |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 08:42:22 AM
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liz,
Thankyou for your message. I was like being a saint, but that doesnt get you anywhere in the world to be able to do things. So I want to change things within me and how I relate to people etc.
As far as her insecurity goes, I was pretty happy without the need for anything or anybody. I am not sure if you could relate to this.
My practises consists of suryanamaskar, savasana and advanced kriyas in the morning. Two times meditation one in afternoon and one in the night.
Hope it answers your question. Have a nice day!
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 4:43:40 PM
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Single life or long-term relationship is an either-or ("and" would only work in a mutually open relationship). Whenever I feel "inspired" by a young/pretty/shapy woman, I breathe and circulate the energy around, that's all. Fantasizing would make it more difficult.
Part 6 of The Way of The Superior Man is about making a conscious decision (unlike in our teens  ) instead of just obeying a progeny reflex:
http://books.google.com/books?id=TE...ge&q&f=false |
Edited by - HathaTeacher on Oct 12 2011 4:46:46 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 9:50:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sivasambho
...I am attracted to every female that I see.... Came across an article on vamachara/lsd recently
Hi,
I have a question about what you wrote. What is vamachara/lsd? Vamachara I understand as a different spelling of bramachara. Is that correct? But what is lsd? The drug?
Thanks for sharing! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 01:08:25 AM
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| Sivasambho, I don't think you can just "forget" the Goddess; you will eventually integrate Her into your life. The question is, in what way? I still say She is in your wife. The reason your wife doesn't want you to do yoga is because, as you said, it made you seem more detached from her. So here's what you do: bring her roses, wine (if you drink), chocolate or some nice gift. Shower her with attention. Worship her as the Goddess. Learn the vamachara techniques (holding back orgasm and raising energy) on your own in private and then share it with her and make love to her tenderly. I don't think she will object to this form of yoga. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 09:07:44 AM
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In my experience, the most important part in the flow of generosity is the sort of attention and touch that is non-sexual. Eye contact, a listening ear, a foot rub, and no expectation of sex later on that night. A kiss, cuddling without expectation of genital contact. A poem, a shared walk. Honesty with money. Empowering her. Sex only when she feels like it, which is probably mind-bogglingly more seldom than you imagine (Lots of wives like the affection, empowering non-judgmental attention, and non-sexual touch so much that, that if they have it freely without expectation of sex, they could do without the sex almost all of the time). The ultimate tantric hold-back starts way before sex. It starts with a generous heart (and a willingness to manage the sexual drives in solitude). To take on that sort of discipline, I have found that it is important to cultivate inner silence and balanced inner sensuality with daily meditation and pranayama sits.
PS If my experience is generalizable, what will turn your wife on is if you stop running from other women who find you attractive, and start being a respectful, honest, non-grasping friend to other women openly, and without toxic secrecy. It will break your heart, but over time will heal your heart too. One small example of how it has worked out for me: For my fiftieth birthday this year, I enjoyed conversation and watermelon not only with my wife but also with two amazing beautiful, smart women friends who called called my wife to ask if they could help give me a happy birthday party. Now I have weekly meditation sits with one of those women. Bramachara is the soil, the water the sunshine that nurtures the silent rose and brings it to fiery blossom in a smile, a kind word, an enthusiastic hug, and even a shared twenty minute sit freely shared. |
Edited by - bewell on Oct 13 2011 09:48:24 AM |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 5:57:54 PM
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Oh, well said, Bewell! For me, libido tends to ride the hormone waves of the monthly cycle, but I never, ever, ever lose interest in sharing time and companionship with my wonderful hubby! Expectation of sex at the end of all the wonderful cuddling, massage, etc. tends to induce stress, and stress is a libido off-switch. (It took him a while to come to grips with that.  )
All the advice here strikes me as being particularly good. You can channel all that good energy around your body as Hatha suggests. You can channel it into your marriage by worshipping your wife as the divine goddess as Jamie suggests. And you can cultivate it by openly engaging in warm friendship with your current love interest as bewell suggests.
But one thing still needs to be addressed. You mention that you cannot discuss any of this with your wife. That's the part that gives me the most concern. I've been down this path. When a subject becomes taboo, you don't stop thinking about it. You just stop talking about it. And when you shut down on one topic, it becomes only too easy to shut down on another because it makes you equally vulnerable. Pretty soon, you stop communicating altogether on anything important, and the next thing you know, your spouse wakes up one morning next to a perfect stranger -- you.
You need to make it safe for your wife to tell you about absolutely anything and to express herself exactly as she wishes in that moment without fear of judgement or condemnation. And she needs to do the same for you! If after some effort, you're still not able to communicate on that level with your wife, then I would suggest getting help from a counselor. It's crucial to a lasting and blissful marriage.
Much love and good luck!
--Liz |
Edited by - whippoorwill on Oct 13 2011 7:07:42 PM |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 01:02:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
PS If my experience is generalizable, what will turn your wife on is if you stop running from other women who find you attractive, and start being a respectful, honest, non-grasping friend to other women openly, and without toxic secrecy. It will break your heart, but over time will heal your heart too.
Thanks Bewell! I like your idea, however as spiritual aspirants, we dont usually have a choice, being in the moments, we end up getting involved in the most weirdest situations, conflicts etc. For eg, I ended up being a mentor to too many people just a while back and it was humanly impossible for me to spend time with all of them without focusing on my work. I ended up over-working which I didnt seem mind, still at the end of it, I came out as someone who couldnt achieve my goals. Though, I won two awards at work etc. I agree that this will all lead you to your personal and spiritual growth. However at times, we tend to hold back ourselves as well when our state of being is misunderstood or exploited by others constantly. This I am guessing is one of the single most disadvantages of living among men in a society. It is what it is....
However with women in general, the advice of the sages is dont encourage any of it, for example in sivananda's "brahmacharya" he warns very seriously about entertaining women in any way and he says the danger is that, if the stuff in the mind, enters the physical body, then it drains the hard earned spiritual energy from sahasrar.
I exactly went through this, I was with no intrigue what so ever initially, however once the first incident happened now the passion has become active in the organs. Since I am not attached to one person, I look at every female and admire them. But the woman that sort of triggered is still around as well. I have decided to goto counselling. Will update you how it goes. |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 01:13:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by HathaTeacher
Single life or long-term relationship is an either-or ("and" would only work in a mutually open relationship). Whenever I feel "inspired" by a young/pretty/shapy woman, I breathe and circulate the energy around, that's all. Fantasizing would make it more difficult.
Part 6 of The Way of The Superior Man is about making a conscious decision (unlike in our teens ) instead of just obeying a progeny reflex:
http://books.google.com/books?id=TE...ge&q&f=false
Sir, Bingo! I agree completely about what you said. However, It is very hard for an emotional person to be the superior man. Bhakti is the only thing that does wonders for us, I know it will be easier for me to be a devotee with women and easily be a nice guy. This is what I ended up doing with this lady, we ended up meeting for a coffee and it was weird, she started spilling all her stories the abuses that she went through from since she was a child. I totally was with her and felt for her and I encouraged her to be like a mother to me and basically told her all the stuff she went through was not her fault. When we left, it was totally spiritual with long hugs etc. But two days later, she communicated to me that whatever happened the other day is unacceptable! And I feel now I may be energetically linked with her. Though I havent had sex with her.
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 01:20:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
But one thing still needs to be addressed. You mention that you cannot discuss any of this with your wife. That's the part that gives me the most concern. I've been down this path. When a subject becomes taboo, you don't stop thinking about it. You just stop talking about it. And when you shut down on one topic, it becomes only too easy to shut down on another because it makes you equally vulnerable. Pretty soon, you stop communicating altogether on anything important, and the next thing you know, your spouse wakes up one morning next to a perfect stranger -- you.
You need to make it safe for your wife to tell you about absolutely anything and to express herself exactly as she wishes in that moment without fear of judgement or condemnation. And she needs to do the same for you! If after some effort, you're still not able to communicate on that level with your wife, then I would suggest getting help from a counselor. It's crucial to a lasting and blissful marriage.
Much love and good luck!
--Liz
Liz. That is a sound advice. I do see your concern and I have thought about it myself. The first time the intrigue happened with this other women, I alerted couple of my friends and a well respected mentor of mine about it. In my mind, this will act as a deterrent if I cant trust myself later on. You know how hard it is for a man to resist the creative force a woman possesses. Here is why it is very difficult for me to open this up with my wife, our culture is indian and my wife will never treat me the same after she knows this incident. I know, its also not good for her own security and state of mind. I am going to a counsellor though. Love to you as well. Thanks! |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 01:22:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JamieRadha
Sivasambho, I don't think you can just "forget" the Goddess; you will eventually integrate Her into your life. The question is, in what way? I still say She is in your wife. The reason your wife doesn't want you to do yoga is because, as you said, it made you seem more detached from her. So here's what you do: bring her roses, wine (if you drink), chocolate or some nice gift. Shower her with attention. Worship her as the Goddess. Learn the vamachara techniques (holding back orgasm and raising energy) on your own in private and then share it with her and make love to her tenderly. I don't think she will object to this form of yoga.
Thanks JamieRadha. I hope to try the same. How do I learn vamachara techniques in private? You mean to say I could learn it myself without someone teaching me or involved? |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 01:24:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by sivasambho
...I am attracted to every female that I see.... Came across an article on vamachara/lsd recently
Hi,
I have a question about what you wrote. What is vamachara/lsd? Vamachara I understand as a different spelling of bramachara. Is that correct? But what is lsd? The drug?
Thanks for sharing!
yeah lsd the drug! At times, I wonder wouldnt it be easier to connect some dots in the head and move on. I dont know it seems like it might save one from years of drama. But meditation is better than lsd I am hearing. lsd is to project our mind into the world with a force. Like what steve jobs did. Rather than being a no mind, you be an active mind I am guessing. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 02:02:45 AM
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quote:
In my experience, the most important part in the flow of generosity is the sort of attention and touch that is non-sexual. Eye contact, a listening ear, a foot rub, and no expectation of sex later on that night. A kiss, cuddling without expectation of genital contact. A poem, a shared walk. Honesty with money. Empowering her. Sex only when she feels like it, which is probably mind-bogglingly more seldom than you imagine (Lots of wives like the affection, empowering non-judgmental attention, and non-sexual touch so much that, that if they have it freely without expectation of sex, they could do without the sex almost all of the time). The ultimate tantric hold-back starts way before sex. It starts with a generous heart (and a willingness to manage the sexual drives in solitude). To take on that sort of discipline, I have found that it is important to cultivate inner silence and balanced inner sensuality with daily meditation and pranayama sits.
oh i love it Bewell ...thank you |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 09:02:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
In my experience, the most important part in the flow of generosity is the sort of attention and touch that is non-sexual. Eye contact, a listening ear, a foot rub, and no expectation of sex later on that night. A kiss, cuddling without expectation of genital contact. A poem, a shared walk. Honesty with money. Empowering her. Sex only when she feels like it, which is probably mind-bogglingly more seldom than you imagine (Lots of wives like the affection, empowering non-judgmental attention, and non-sexual touch so much that, that if they have it freely without expectation of sex, they could do without the sex almost all of the time). The ultimate tantric hold-back starts way before sex. It starts with a generous heart (and a willingness to manage the sexual drives in solitude). To take on that sort of discipline, I have found that it is important to cultivate inner silence and balanced inner sensuality with daily meditation and pranayama sits.
oh i love it Bewell ...thank you
Who will not love it especially those who are pursuing spirituality?
When we say spiritual, we automatically mean to less identify ourselves with the "body" in an absolute sense and the mundane things to some extent. however not everyone is bound to have such a partner who is into the same aesthetic things in life. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 7:39:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sivasambho
I have decided to goto counselling. Will update you how it goes.
Hi Sivasambho,
Thanks for sharing more about your point of view and your situation. I will look forward to your update as you see how it goes.
Bewell |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 12:43:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by sivasambho
I have decided to goto counselling. Will update you how it goes.
Hi Sivasambho,
Thanks for sharing more about your point of view and your situation. I will look forward to your update as you see how it goes.
Bewell
Hi Bewell,
I am grateful and sweetly surprised with the support and interest people have to help others here. Will keep you posted on further developments.
Thankyou |
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sivasambho
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2011 : 10:25:20 PM
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Bewell and all,
I just finished my first counselling session this evening. Ego and the emotional hurt places within needs some approval. Ways to move in the society appropriately will be anchored in my head from here on. One step at a time and it seems like it will take a while. It is promising, though.
Thankyou
sivasambho |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2011 : 02:31:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sivasambho
quote:
Originally posted by JamieRadha
Sivasambho, I don't think you can just "forget" the Goddess; you will eventually integrate Her into your life. The question is, in what way? I still say She is in your wife. The reason your wife doesn't want you to do yoga is because, as you said, it made you seem more detached from her. So here's what you do: bring her roses, wine (if you drink), chocolate or some nice gift. Shower her with attention. Worship her as the Goddess. Learn the vamachara techniques (holding back orgasm and raising energy) on your own in private and then share it with her and make love to her tenderly. I don't think she will object to this form of yoga.
Thanks JamieRadha. I hope to try the same. How do I learn vamachara techniques in private? You mean to say I could learn it myself without someone teaching me or involved?
Dear sivasambho, You could study the tantra lessons here at AYP to get an idea of how to go about it and what to practice on your own. Obviously it would be easier to learn with somebody (like the escort/priestess) actually teaching you; however, as we discussed previously, that would be totally unethical without your wife's permission, and from what you have said, I am fairly sure that she would NOT give you permission and therefore it would only cause more problems. Therefore, learn and practice on your own and then eventually you can share it with your wife and bring her great happiness. In the meantime, continue the counseling, improve the communication and speak to her lovingly, worship her like a Goddess, shower her with affection, kindness, massages, etc. I am really glad you are going to counseling! (I was going to suggest it, except you had already stated that you were not interested in counseling.) I wish you all the best in your spiritual practice and in your marriage! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2011 : 02:56:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
In my experience, the most important part in the flow of generosity is the sort of attention and touch that is non-sexual. Eye contact, a listening ear, a foot rub, and no expectation of sex later on that night. A kiss, cuddling without expectation of genital contact. A poem, a shared walk. Honesty with money. Empowering her. Sex only when she feels like it, which is probably mind-bogglingly more seldom than you imagine (Lots of wives like the affection, empowering non-judgmental attention, and non-sexual touch so much that, that if they have it freely without expectation of sex, they could do without the sex almost all of the time).
?! "Lots of wives," huh? hmmm... with all due respect, it is a popular generalization, that women prefer cuddling over sex, which is widely believed but recent studies have shown otherwise (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyl...y-finds.html). It's very important to have good communication with your spouse (as Liz pointed out) to find out what she REALLY wants. Personally, kissing and cuddling and then NOT giving me sex would be annoying. Sure, my partner and I "cuddle" when watching t.v. or gazing at the stars, but INSTEAD of sex? No way! If we're not going to have sex I would rather spend the time doing asana or meditation together. Of course, I realize it's a different situation for Sivasambho since his wife is not into yoga. But my point is, communication is very necessary. Naturally there are times when one or both people are just too tired, or not feeling well, etc., but gentlemen, if your wife consistently prefers to not have sex I think more communication is needed to find out why. Some women don't want sex because their husbands are lousy lovers who need to learn better technique! Or maybe he's not a bad lover but she's pissed off at him for some other reason. Some women actually do not enjoy sex because they are not comfortable with their own body and/or they had a repressive upbringing, e.g. my mother was taught by her mother, "Sex is something unpleasant that you must endure in order to make your husband happy and to have children." How very, very sad! Fortunately I think this is less common in America and most western countries today, although in some cultures it remains the case. So if there are issues like this which cannot be easily talked about and resolved, then definitely counseling would be recommended for the couple. |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2011 : 08:16:46 AM
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Hi Sivasambho! That sounds really encouraging. Very best of luck to you!
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2011 : 08:35:42 AM
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Hi Jamie! I agree the "most wives" part of bewell's statement is a generalization, but it's the giving of love and affection in the absence of expectation that's really important. It's just really important for a woman to know that the affection she enjoys isn't in exchange for something.
I think repressive upbringings are more common than you might guess, especially in rural america. I certainly had one, and it took more than a decade to overcome it.
Also, the same woman is different at any given point in her life. For example, while pregnant, libido was really high. While nursing twins, libido was about the lowest I think it is ever possible for libido to go. (Extreme lack of sleep, sore breasts, and a back that was on fire from holding two babies all the time had a lot to do with it. Plus, there was my two-year-old daughter, who still liked to be picked up and held a lot. The best lovemaking at that point in my life was taking care of everything to let me get a few hours of sleep.)
I agree with most of what you said. I just wanted to point out that I thought it was the "lack of expectation" part of bewell's statement that was really important. And if a woman has a low libido and is comfortable that way, then that's just the way she is. If she wants to change that aspect of her body and her life, then she probably can. But the motivation to do so should come from within.
[Edit: But if a guy is not really communicating with his wife, he's not going to know if the low libido is due to something being amiss or if it's just her baseline. Sex is all between the ears, anyway.  ] |
Edited by - whippoorwill on Oct 18 2011 10:09:42 AM |
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love and the need of romance?
