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 Kundalini Issues Not Related to the AYP System
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maheswari

Lebanon
2374 Posts

Posted - May 18 2020 :  11:58:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Blanche
if you want to sugarcoat it and say clearing process that is up to you. Overload and seeing our stories as you may have experienced is not a smooth ride, for years you feel your are torn inside out until things start to get better. Not saying that to cling to a "martyr story" The altar keeps getting emptier until nothing is left on it.There is no beliefs and that includes beliefs of a divine, a me , a soul...these are all functions but they do not exist as an entity. Any entity no matter how subtle , it implies a continuation in time and space so that is no better than the witness, spiritual kinder garden stories
quote:
corrects the fundamental misperception
still implies someone who has a misperception
quote:
things are not separate from the divine
still implies that things and you and them and or the divine etc... exists.
Now i will say a short story so i am not misunderstood and we go into endless discussion , cause frankly in those topics it is better to stay silent. And the story is not sugarcoated so i do not know if you will be offended
A believer visited the Buddha and told him :God exists. The Buddha replied: no
An atheist visited the Buddha and told him: God does not exist. The Buddha replied: no
Students asked the Buddha why he said no to both of them?
The Buddha replied: Ouups , it seems you all believe some sort of non sense
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Blanche

USA
620 Posts

Posted - May 19 2020 :  1:34:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Maheswari,

I am sorry that you have had a difficult time. I am not denying your experience. One of Piruz’s questions was if everyone was going through such a challenging time during the process of spiritual transformation. Someone closed to me has been going through it, and there have been difficult periods. This has not been my experience. Emptying out, coming to term with all the fear, beliefs, attachments, habits has been uncomfortable at times, but the natural reaction was to let go – because there was no other option. The clearing out has happened gradually. However there was a clear moment when everything was gone, the all story. There was an incredible relief, like a weight I did not even know about in my chest was gone. There was outpouring joy and bliss, laughing and crying. And it went on for a long time. It became the new normal, and then the journey has continued.

This emptying out happens every time before a shift in consciousness. It is like the system needs to clear out to get an update. Everything that was known, perceived, believed is reset to zero. One starts again from nothing. It is like dying and being reborn. But why does it have to be a torture? Have we ever had anything? Have we ever controlled anything? Spiritual practices especially meditation and prayer help to clear out the stuff. It has been the experience here that the process moves even faster and easier when one shifts the mental attitude from “this is the Truth“/”I know” to “this is true for me now” to “I do not know.”
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maheswari

Lebanon
2374 Posts

Posted - May 20 2020 :  03:55:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Blanche
You missed my point. As i said above there is no martyr nor torture story that is why do not be sorry for me.
I am specifically talking about these things that usually run in spiritual circles like feeling sorry, seeing the divine, the witness, these might be some beginners kit tools , but eventually you go beyond them unless one likes the spiritual comfort zone which is a form of self deception.
Eventually if one is genuine, you cut through all the nonsense and you find aloness standing facing the cliff and you do not blink nor fear nor run back to the known...and then fall into the abyss of your non existence ( no souls and spiritual chit chat , no death and reborn like stories., no torture stories , no letting go stories,nor seer and seen stories , nor someone who has a misperception and will correct it).It is a void yet a a full one.
Cutting through the nonsense is represented by some shocking stories like the one mentioned in my previous post but it did not ring any bell or by some archetypes and icons (like Manjushri's sword in Buddhist tradition, or Kali chopping heads off in the Hindu tradition) . But these are all pointers, the applying of cutting non sense out is what is beneficial not sugar coated second hand spiritually correct words
I am surprised you never had k symptoms whether physically or emotionally .But i do not know you and everything is possible under the sun. Yet the most advanced people had them like Ramana Adyashanti etc etc ..not to mention most advanced people in the forums, some who are still posting and some who left the forums years ago) . Just do not get surprised if more serious stuff appear cause you still tend to believe in things, noble things maybe but still beliefs so no better than not so noble things
I know i have drifted this topic to another place. No more posts for me over here.Thank you all and if not interested in those words that is perfectly fine
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Blanche

USA
620 Posts

Posted - May 20 2020 :  07:30:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Maheswari,
Who said that there have been no kundalini symptoms? Sure there have been kundalini symptoms here, but nothing like being “torn inside out.” Kundalini symptoms have a range, from little to extreme and everything in between. Overall, this ride has been pretty smooth. Decades of regular practice and inner work have helped. Your perspective is valid from a point in the journey, but that does not invalidate the other perspectives. Words are limiting and they change the reality. Even after one “cuts through all the nonsense”, there is still “alones”, the “cliff”, and the “abyss”. All this sounds pretty dry, isn’t it? Maybe there is something more to be seen there?
It is not useful for people like Piruz to tell them that the spiritual journey is always marked by shocking stories, because it is not. I am not writing from books and stories, I am writing from my experience.
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Piruz

United Kingdom
62 Posts

Posted - May 20 2020 :  7:48:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not seeking a spiritual journey without challenges. There will always be challenges and hence rewards. I am only seeking to overcome crippling challenges that put the whole journey at risk. Not all challenges are the same and some are better described as crises.

All this is achievable (not only but especially) when one begins to understand the dynamics of the situation. #1615;Even in faith, the mind upholds its right to some practical understanding. A journey without perspective cannot be what enlightenment is all about. You cannot abandon mind altogether because it's how you function (unless you have no life outside of yoga) and a rudimentary perspective helps integrate whatever is happening in Kundalini with the rest of your life.

I'm not talking about a complete rationalization of Kundalini/Prana, I'm talking about (and I keep on saying this) a practical understanding. I'm sure everyone agrees but for some reason all here seem to be under the impression that I am stuck in "experiences" or whatsoever.
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1569 Posts

Posted - May 21 2020 :  04:01:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Piruz
quote:
Originally posted by Piruz
A journey without perspective cannot be what enlightenment is all about.

There are over 500 lessons on this website. Many of them are about practices. A lot of the content however is about perspective. If you have read the lessons and not found the practical understanding you are seeking, then I wonder anything any of us might add to this thread will fix that.

Best wishes
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Stille

Germany
59 Posts

Posted - May 21 2020 :  04:24:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Piruz,

quote:
I'm talking about (and I keep on saying this) a practical understanding.


Yogani has written many lessons about the practical aspects of the journey. In AYP it is emphasised, that the inner workings happen automatically, "under the hood" and much focus is put on practice and on letting go instead of conceptualizing. I suggest you reread the lessons about kundalini and ida/pingala/shushumna and the nectar cycle. Much is explained there to satisfy curiosity. If you are driven to indulge in "under the hood stuff" further then you can check out http://www.swamij.com/index-yoga-me...undalini.htm. In the end all explanations are just concepts swirling around in your mind and they may not help you in a situation of acute crisis. Remember that reading about spirituality is a spiritual pracice also, which might need to be self paced.

You can also let go of your spiritual desires/cravings in stillness and practise gratitude to gain a new perspective.

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Christi

United Kingdom
3704 Posts

Posted - May 21 2020 :  07:23:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Piruz,

Here are some lessons that you may find useful:

54 - Kundalini - A Code Word for Sex

63 - Cool and Warm Currents in Pranayama

64 - The Ecstatic Silver Thread

69 - Kundalini Symptoms, Imbalances and Remedies

83 - There She Goes - Kundalini, that is

94 - Some House Cleaning Tips

113 - Bliss, Ecstasy and Divine Love

125 - Kundalini Heat

135 - Kundalini Currents in Legs and Arms

T13.1 - More Frequent Urination During Kundalini Awakening

169 - Is This Ecstatic Conductivity?

170 - That's Kundalini?

191 - How to Cultivate Ecstatic Conductivity

199 - Managing the Opening of the Crown

201 - The Drama of a Premature Crown Opening

208 - Inner Energy Collisions and Strong Emotions

216 - Kundalini Jolts and Self-Pacing in Practices

261 - Kundalini Surge

280 - Kundalini Reminders

297 - Is an Awakened Kundalini the Same as Enlightenment?

320 - Kundalini and Refined Sensory Perception

331 - Non-Duality and Ecstatic Kundalini

378 - How Does Pranayama Awaken Kundalini?

381 - Ida, Pingala and Kundalini Awakening

406 - Kundalini Conundrum

407 - Pranayama for Relaxation or for Kundalini Awakening?

409 - Asanas (Postures) and Premature Kundalini Awakening

410 - Early Signs of Kundalini Awakening

422 - Curing Kundalini Excesses


Christi
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Piruz

United Kingdom
62 Posts

Posted - May 26 2020 :  4:52:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Stille

Hi Piruz,

quote:
I'm talking about (and I keep on saying this) a practical understanding.


Yogani has written many lessons about the practical aspects of the journey. In AYP it is emphasised, that the inner workings happen automatically, "under the hood" and much focus is put on practice and on letting go instead of conceptualizing. I suggest you reread the lessons about kundalini and ida/pingala/shushumna and the nectar cycle. Much is explained there to satisfy curiosity. If you are driven to indulge in "under the hood stuff" further then you can check out http://www.swamij.com/index-yoga-me...undalini.htm. In the end all explanations are just concepts swirling around in your mind and they may not help you in a situation of acute crisis. Remember that reading about spirituality is a spiritual pracice also, which might need to be self paced.

You can also let go of your spiritual desires/cravings in stillness and practise gratitude to gain a new perspective.





Of course! How could I have missed this? This is about the most helpful post I've come across in this thread, so guys please forget about everything that was said and let's start anew.

Now I remember coming across Jim and His Karma's thread on asymmetrical energy build-up and Kundalini energy gone "wayward" about a year ago when I first experienced this Kundalini curse, but I find it more interesting now than I did back then (not the link you posted but the link in it to which Jim refers people with "wayward" energy problems).

Kundalini gone wayward!? So there IS such thing in Kundalini literature after all! There IS a conventionally "safe" and "natural course" for the energy from which it CAN, in some cases (perhaps extreme, like myself) deviate and cause all sorts of asymmetries (left vs right) when the energy "zings randomly through unexpected channels in the body" as Jim puts it.

Leaving it all "under the hood" and "just going with the flow" even when the flow is wayward (thanks to wrong practice, habit or whatever reason)? Another discussion between Yogani and Jim to which I can relate.

The safe course (taken in spinal breathing) is, as it were, energy moving straight up the spine and down the front, but for some reason I've been feeling the energy go up the front for almost a year now, wrecking havoc on my heart, stomach, and overall frontal part. I've always felt some kind of relief when the energy (somehow) "sneaked" to the back and shot up the spine because it felt like the circuit was finally complete. But I haven't felt that in a while and the energy has been crushing through my heart and lungs for months now.

It became so unbearable two days ago after some "grounding" exercises (an hour of power walking. Why does grounding summon more energy sometimes??) that the left frontal part of my body felt so stretched out like it was going to explode (arm and leg included). That's when I decided to lie down on my back, relax, and try to bring the energy to the middle. I practiced spinal breathing and all of a sudden the energy left the frontal region of the body and moved to the spine where I finally got the famous "spinal electric shock" and I was able to get some good sleep that night (actually, it was morning!). It's curious how smooth the shifting of balance went.

Am I suffering from habit-reinforced wayward energy channeling? Why is my energy (left to its habitual course) traveling up the front without a grounding channel? I only rarely feel energy "pouring down" the front (it feels somewhat chilly and not so unpleasant when it happens), but always going up the front. Like I said during my initial Prana explosion a year ago there came a period where energy moving up the spine felt natural and didn't have to be induced, but that was a long time ago.

I want to practice spinal breathing but if grounding exercises can sometimes stir up more energy than they "ground" then I'm fearful of what might come from spinal breathing which, even though proved useful to me occasionally, is still a spiritual/energy practice so things can easily go dead wrong. Also during spinal breathing the energy unintentionally reaches the crown, something I'm told is a red alert (and I don't want more trouble!).

Another point of privilege is this. We're told that Ajna (third eye chakra) is "our friend" and that it's where we want our Prana to go because Ajna is some sort of "regulating force" that will draw any wayward energy back into a healthy pathway. This is stated in the main lessons as well as the thread by Jim.

But the very same writer (Jim) has a thread dedicated to frontal blockages whereby the energy is stuck in the head after reaching Ajna. Now if Ajna acts as a regulating force, and it's activation is essential for a healthy pathway, why hasn't it helped Jim? Or is it the case that Ajna simply points the energy to the right direction but has no power over blockages (which need time t unblock)?

I feel like I'm finally onto something.
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Piruz

United Kingdom
62 Posts

Posted - May 26 2020 :  5:12:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
And for the last time, I'm not "craving" spiritual practices. At this point, I'm "craving" grounding more than anything else. Though, I wouldn't exactly describe it as "craving". I simply want to balance my energies and be able to function again.

Why won't anyone believe me? Is it because most people who come here do so out of "spiritual cravings"?
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Piruz

United Kingdom
62 Posts

Posted - May 26 2020 :  8:26:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry I was talking about this thread https://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic...OPIC_ID=3236

Don't know why but I can't find it on this thread anymore even though I'm sure someone posted it.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3704 Posts

Posted - May 27 2020 :  06:22:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
The safe course (taken in spinal breathing) is, as it were, energy moving straight up the spine and down the front, but for some reason I've been feeling the energy go up the front for almost a year now, wrecking havoc on my heart, stomach, and overall frontal part. I've always felt some kind of relief when the energy (somehow) "sneaked" to the back and shot up the spine because it felt like the circuit was finally complete. But I haven't felt that in a while and the energy has been crushing through my heart and lungs for months now.


Hi Piruz,

The energetic pathway followed in AYP Spinal Breathing is from the root to the ajna chakra going up the inside of the spine, and back down the same way.

It is here:

"with each rising inhalation of the breath, allow your attention to travel upward inside a tiny thread, or tube, you visualize beginning at your perineum, continuing up through the center of your spine, and up through the stem of your brain to the center of your head. At the center of your head the tiny nerve makes a turn forward to the point between your eyebrows. With one slow, deep inhalation let your attention travel gradually inside the nerve from the perineum all the way to the point between the eyebrows. As you exhale, retrace this path from the point between the eyebrows all the way back down to the perineum. Then, come back up to the point between the eyebrows with the next inhalation, and down to the perineum with the next exhalation, and so on." [Yogani]

Lesson 41 - Spinal Breathing Pranayama

For grounding, see this lesson:

Lesson 69 - Kundalini Symptoms, Imbalances and Remedies

Gentle walking for long periods can work much better for grounding, than power walking. In fact, if anything stirs up the energy in your body, then it is not grounding, it is energising, and will tend to accentuate kundalini symptoms.

In your case, I would suggest leaving out all spiritual practices (including spinal breathing, meditation and prayer) for some time to let things settle down. You have become quite out of balance, so think in terms of taking a few weeks, or even months, to let things calm down.



Christi
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Stille

Germany
59 Posts

Posted - May 27 2020 :  07:21:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Piruz,

quote:
I want to practice spinal breathing but if grounding exercises can sometimes stir up more energy than they "ground" then I'm fearful of what might come from spinal breathing which, even though proved useful to me occasionally, is still a spiritual/energy practice so things can easily go dead wrong. Also during spinal breathing the energy unintentionally reaches the crown, something I'm told is a red alert (and I don't want more trouble!).


Have you tried working with spinal breathing for very short periods of time? Like one minute, maybe two? You don't have to be fearful of practices that invoke energy. Just respect them for what they are. If you gave grounding methods a fair chance, not doing any practises for a while (and other common advice like physical activity, walking barefoot in nature, eating a heavier diet etc.) and it didn't work for you, then it may be time to try something differnt. You write that spinal breathing pranayama gave you some relief recently. Why don't you try a super careful routine of (e.g.) one minute SBP followed by two to five minutes of deep meditation (no mudras and bandhas, no restriction of breath, no siddhasana, just the very basics). You will see if it worsens your problems or gives you relief. If it works for you - perfect. If it does not, simply stop again.

I would advice you to keep doing your grouding exercises and experiment very carefully and step by step with gentle practices.

Remember that constantly thinking/conceptualizing about your energy problems as well as reading spiritual literature (reading the ayp forums) pushes energy also.

If some activity is grounding or not partly depends on what we favour with our attention. Favour external and mundane things for effective grounding. Also try out lying in Child's Pose, forehead on the ground.

quote:
Why is my energy (left to its habitual course) traveling up the front without a grounding channel?


I think the energy simply choses the route of least resistance. This is different for every individual (individual karmic blockages) and this is why there are manyfold kundalini awakening routes. Not all of them lead all the way up to the crown and not all of them are safe or feel pleasant.
The practise of SBP clears out blockages in the shushumna nadi and in the side channels also, in a very gradual manner. This slowly makes it the route of least resistance for the prana energies to flow in.

Hope you are doing well

EDIT: check out Christi's last paragraph. This is what I mean by a "a while". If you are still unbalanced after some months then try out easing into practices again, very carefully.

Edited by - Stille on May 27 2020 07:45:24 AM
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maheswari

Lebanon
2374 Posts

Posted - May 27 2020 :  09:19:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
i would say stop all practices,even the prayers

Edited by - maheswari on May 27 2020 09:23:31 AM
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Piruz

United Kingdom
62 Posts

Posted - May 27 2020 :  1:04:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Spinal breathing gave me some relief at the time but the backlash came a day later. My body (the let side specifically) feels like it's hotter, and the heart/chest burns like it use to when my heart chakra first opened up 2 months ago. It's like the "wounds", which I thought had healed, are now "fresh" again!

Don't know about the root (the initial phase of my Kundalini awakening) but the heart is something else and it's dangerous because, I swear to God, at this rate I'll turn 90 years old when I'm only 28!

Looks like this is it. I've had it with self-diagnoses and self-therapy. I need to see a healer or talk to an expert who is qualified to help people with energy problems (meditation induced or otherwise). I mustn't be doing this all by myself anymore. It was self-help that got me here in the first place (if only someone had advised me on AYP before I started meditating, I bet none of this would have happened). I'm in West London so if you guys know a place or someone who can help, please don't keep me waiting.

The advice I'm getting here is valuable for sure, but very wide-ranging and the factors at play are too many and vary from one individual to another. Definitely not a case-by-case approach (which it isn't even supposed to be, for this is a forum and not a clinic).
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Piruz

United Kingdom
62 Posts

Posted - May 27 2020 :  1:07:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Also try out lying in Child's Pose, forehead on the ground.


Funny! I actually practice this everyday during prayers (when my forehead is on the ground and I'm begging God for relief every night. And yes, my attention would be outward not inward). I thought it made me feel more "grounded" but was under the impression it might be placebo. Now I know it is in fact grounding. But I'm only doing child's pose for like 10 minutes a day.
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Piruz

United Kingdom
62 Posts

Posted - May 30 2020 :  10:24:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Update: It's now in my throat/head (though it hasn't left the spine and chest, but for some reason mostly there on the left side). Ears feel itchy every now and then, very itchy (from the inside!) and the third eye is occasionally screaming! Energy is spontaneously moving up to the crown, but then settles at the third eye. I can't stop and have not even tried.

Someone told me that once the ears start feeling itchy, it's a sign that things are balancing out. I hope they're right.
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Jim and His Karma

2108 Posts

Posted - Jun 01 2020 :  8:18:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:

But the very same writer (Jim) has a thread dedicated to frontal blockages whereby the energy is stuck in the head after reaching Ajna. Now if Ajna acts as a regulating force, and it's activation is essential for a healthy pathway, why hasn't it helped Jim? Or is it the case that Ajna simply points the energy to the right direction but has no power over blockages (which need time t unblock)?



Yogani is right. I try to reflect that in the topic, though it's almost comical how everyone has ignored me.

You basically need to resolve a paradox:

1. Discomfort and problems arise, and
2. If you get too geared up and immersed in "solving" such outcomes, you create a vicious circle. It's self-defeating.

You need to experience these things for some time without getting all energized (pun very much intended) about finding a smart solution. If you'll pull the camera back, that's what yoga is in the first place. Wanting what you get rather than getting what you want. Fighting the universe is what created these blockages in the first place. It's normal (though hilarious) to keep battling the flow so you can "find" the flow. But Yogani's right about the under-the-hood thing.

I tried to thread the needle: offer solutions to try in a mellow, la-dee-da, bemused fashion. Give them SOMETHING to try. But it was like I'd thrown steaks at a swamp full of alligators. Vicious circles just tightened up. Oops. I have not repeated my mistake of offering subtled, nuanced suggestions here.

The ajna question is very much a part of that. If you view my posting as a schematic for redirecting body energies, then, yeah, ajna's not the all-purpose answer, and can even seem like the problem. But that doesn't conflict with Yogani, who just says to gently let ajna do its thing OVER TIME. A light magnetism there will align wayward OVER TIME. Might it involve three steps back before two steps forward? Yup. Yoga's like that. LIFE is like that. Scrambling to find the Magic Formula will only set you back.

I realize it's very hatha yoga-ish to delve into the minutiae; to take it all apart and try to wrap your head around it. But that's not a good approach here. You need to "Let" and "Favor". Letting is surrender, aka silence. Favoring is a light, friendly desire for symmetry and smoothness and ajna magnetism. It's okay to have a light, feathery, simple desire. So long as you don't, like, NEED the universe to be some other way.

Trying to tune up this misfiring Mustang is counterproductive. Do sadhana, letting and favoring. Maybe follow my suggestions in a light-hearted way (the way Yogani practiced tai chi....in fact, maybe try tai chi!). And let ajna work its magic. It may get worse before it gets better. That's okay. It's all okay.

You have not experienced kundalini without having some level of recognition that you're not driving this car. And I realize this very recognition ignites bhakti, which feels irritating! But the way through is more of THAT. So, with VERY careful self-pacing (we all say it a million times, but people never seem to hear it), and a lot of Letting, and a little Favoring (and sticking faithfully to sadhana), tomorrow will come, bearing a new set of vexations and problems.

The vexations and problems never cease - the ducks never get in a row (despite spiritual mythology to the contrary). The only difference will be in your PERSPECTIVE. You will cease seeing these things as antagonists. So long as you view antagonists and problems and stuff to solve, you're getting colder (per the children's game of "you're getting warmer/you're geting colder"). Flip back (and, again, yes, I know the flipping back ignites bhakti, and it feels like a thumb trap. I'm not unsympathetic! I've been there!).

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 01 2020 11:36:17 PM
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Advanced Yoga Practices Book



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Adventure Novel

The Secrets of Wilder Novel


Enlightenment Series

Deep Meditation Book


Spinal Breathing Pranayama Book


Tantra Book


Asanas, Mudras & Bandhas Book


Samyama Book


Diet, Shatkarmas and Amaroli Book


Self-Inquiry Book


Bhakti and Karma Yoga Book


Eight Limbs of Yoga Book


Eight Limbs of Yoga Book



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