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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 7:52:12 PM
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| Bellow im gonna cite what one of the world authority leaders on yoga,Paramahansa Nirajananda Saraswati,(direct disciple of paramahansa Satyananda who is recognized as the indisputed spiritual leader of India) says about nadi shodhana pranayama:Nadi Shodana(psychic network purification) is a singularly fundamental important pranayama.The word shodhana means to cleanse or to purify therefore nadi shodhana is a practice whereby the pranic channels are purified and descongested.It is practised by alternating the inhalation and exhalation between left and right nostrils,thus influencing the ida and pingala nadis,the controlling oscilations of the body mind network and bringing balance and harmony throughout the system.It is truly a balancing pranayama,because whether the imbalance lies in the physical or mental bodies,nadi shodhana can be used to restore equilibrium.As a daily practice,it may be used to vitalize our pranic energies and handle life's situations.As a therapeutic tool,it can be applied to almost all physical and mental disorders.As a spiritual practice,it will awaken the dormant shakti in mooladhara chakra and direct it through sushumna,the path of spiritual awekening,leading to deep states of meditation. It is a complete practice in it self.advanced nadi shodhana techniques are;Samavrtti Nadi Shodhana,Gayatri Nadi Shodhana and Viloma Nadi Shodhana. |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 10:22:36 PM
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Sorry, Nadi shodana is not a complete practice. It is just a preparation for kumbhaka. It's a good practice. Takes two minutes max.
Adamant |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 08:29:02 AM
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Please Adamant,it would be very helpful for anybody that you support your affirmation with some explanation or a creditable link so Paramahansa Satyananda,Paramahansa Nirajananda,Swami Ramdev,The Yoga institut of Nonavla(delhi),Swami Shivananda and All Shivananda Centers,Iyengar,yoga,and most of the classical schools of yoga around the world,could understand that they are wrong. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 08:48:04 AM
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quote:
Bellow im gonna cite what one of the world authority leaders on yoga,Paramahansa Nirajananda Saraswati,(direct disciple of paramahansa Satyananda who is recognized as the indisputed spiritual leader of India) says about nadi shodhana pranayama:Nadi Shodana(psychic network purification) is a singularly fundamental important pranayama.
Agreed.
It is the main practice used for balancing ida & pingala. Any system that ignored its significance would have a major flaw in it, in my view.
To say otherwise would imo be irresponsible and spreading misinformation.You could either get into serious difficulties or not be able to get out of them should you get into them by ignoring this practice.
adamant- i have alot of repsect for spiritual communitites endeavouuring to all share wht they know, and for practitioners and any yoga system of practices but to share the kind of wooly and incorrect nonsense( 'in a sense it is not a pranayama' elsewhere or 'it is preparation for kumbhaka') on nadi shodhana is really irresponsible, not just misleading.
it cannot be stressed how important this pranayam is especially for a safe and comfortable sushumna awakening, and eventual kundalini rising.
SINGULARLY FUNDAMENTAL important pranayama.
Adamant i don't meant to cause you beef but did you not come on here orginally( maybe even having used other pseudonyms) going by the name of of 'konchok ochel dorje' and using a lot of book-ish buddhist terminology, never really relating from personal experience, then seeming drifting towards at times jnana yoga and now deciding to embrace finally some AYP/yoga practices? perhaps i am mistaken in that case. regardless, i think you're being quite irresponsible by trying to disagree with folk. a sincere seeker would not do that, especially on the level of 'is not a complete practice'.
Awakening Kundalini is a serious business (not to worry folk unecessarily, but in the sense that things can go wrong) but you can get into serious difficulties and problems if you are not armed with the right information or tools for the job.The right tools ,knowledge , awareness of what is occuring in your own nervous system, as the changes occur , and some adequate self-pacing ,baby steps all along the way, that great principle of AYP and you should be fine..etc
But this is in my opinion a very important tool especially in the preliminary stages along with spinal breathing coming next,awakening sushumna. To ignore it -well either nothing is gonna happen or, it's gonna be a longer less comfortable ride fraught with much anguish and pain along the way, or you can get lucky-ish, or you may well be going to get into serious difficulties that de-rail the journey completely and put you into 'kundalini kasualty' arena.The horror stories are real.I've been there; i speak from experience. And stil navigating out of it.
*nadi shodhana is very important for opening a closed or dormant nostril. in most folk energy/prana either flows more in ida or pingala and in some more or less exclusively in one or the other. it is these kinds of people, the latter in particular, that could run into kundalini problems because because once it is awakened it favours the dominant nadi networks. it may have been this way for a long time perhaps before they took up formal yoga practices but it can be recitified in a few months or less depending on the motivation of the practitioner.
i don't mean to alarm folk but nadi sodhana is like flour is to cooking. it is a fundamental practice. to say it is not a pranayam. yeah these are just words we're using, is kind of odd because it is such an important pranayama,' singularly fundamental'. it balances ida and ingala. if these are off balnce either nothings occurs in yoga kundalinshkti wise at least for a long time or you can run into problems.
And avoiding these problems or knowing how to get out of them should they arise by having the right tools/toolbase/AYP and knowledge is what these kind of resources, i.e AYP, are for.--- Spreading or proliferating sound and reliable & tested yogic science/information, not misinformation. The latter could even cause folk harm and not be helpful. Cause they don't have theinformation they need, let alone the experience to know what they're dealing with and how to handle it.
whether it is complete practice or not is kinda academic debate to bother engaging with, although i think it certainly is as omarkaya correctly,i think, pointed out. it is not to be under-estimated.. As important as the core practices of AYP. As important as, and a preliminary and adjunct practice to SbP..
Persoanlly ifeel the lack of stress on nadi shodhana and the significance of balncing ida & pingala is what is missing from the AYP system. This is just my opinion though. You need to verify it of course with your own expeerience. I believe i've alreadty had this discussion with Yogani which appears to be a bit of a hot potato at the moment but it it has been worth bringing ito out in the open. An i hope it has been as useful to you as it has been to me.
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Edited by - Akasha on Jan 18 2010 10:00:10 AM |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 09:01:12 AM
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| Just one help,Nadi Shodhana its performed with kumbhaka and rechaka,and its possibilities and variations are all. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 12:34:11 PM
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Hi All:
For the record, I practiced nadi shodhana pranayama (alternate nostril breathing) for nearly 20 years, for 10-15 minutes twice daily before deep meditation. The last 5 years of that, I used kumbhaka, mudras and bandhas extensively, mainly because alternate nostril breathing was not producing an ecstatic awakening -- relaxation only. The result of the aggressive additional measures was an unstable kundalini awakening, which after several years, was finally stabilized with self-pacing, grounding, and spinal breathing pranayama.
For the nearly 20 years since then, I have used spinal breathing (with the additional methods in the lessons) with excellent results for a balanced continuation of kundalini expansion and integration with abiding inner silence.
Throughout this long period, extensive work with the cultivation of inner silence has been ongoing with deep meditation, samyama, self-inquiry and the various enhancements in practice on that side of the equation, which we have covered in the AYP writings.
The Secrets of Wilder novel presents a facsimile of this journey, simplified and compressed in time. It is a much "wilder" journey than what the AYP system has become in terms of its simplicity, balance, and sophistication in self-pacing for maximum progress with comfort and safety. And the evolution continues, based on the experiences of many.
So it should be pointed out that the objective in the AYP forums is for experience-based sharing, rather than spouting theories based on what any particular guru or tradition said or did. If a practice is good, then we'd like first-hand descriptions, pros and cons, and how that can fit into a practical daily routine that can be undertaken in this modern world. We'd like to know about ongoing results, challenges, and solutions that are worked out to address real-time issues that are bound to come up.
Trumpeting platitudes on practice while dropping names of famous gurus and traditions is easy. We are beyond that here. We'd like to know what works based on hard-earned experience over the long term. We'd like for it to be useful and practical. In-the-trenches yoga based on real experience. That is what we are doing here.
Omarkaya, so far, all you have done here is tell everyone what you think they ought to be doing, often at the expense of the clarity of paths other than yours. You quote impressive sources on fragments of knowledge, without offering any sort of integrated systematic approach, or evidence of real experience. I encourage you to take note of the community you are in, the levels of experience that are present, and the depth of research on practice that is going on here. Consider that you have something to learn also. We all do.
Nothing is black or white. There are a thousand shades of gray. There are many viable approaches. Opinions expressed by many here are based on long experience, so not to take them too lightly.
The guru is in you.
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 1:54:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by omarkaya
Please Adamant,it would be very helpful for anybody that you support your affirmation with some explanation or a creditable link so Paramahansa Satyananda,Paramahansa Nirajananda,Swami Ramdev,The Yoga institut of Nonavla(delhi),Swami Shivananda and All Shivananda Centers,Iyengar,yoga,and most of the classical schools of yoga around the world,could understand that they are wrong.
I cite my own realization of the radiant mind. I can certainly cite you Gotama the Buddha who taught a path to complete enlightenment, but made absolutely no use of pranayama whatsoever. From that standpoint, all those gurus you cited are teaching a path to realization of the god realms, aka, the form and formless realms, both of which are completely impermanent and not real. For our purposes, let's just agree to disagree about god. Let's not debate traditions. That's a waste. Wisdom is tolerant, and realization defies description. Understand that there is a path to awakening that involves pranayama and one that does not. If you can jibe one with the other, then you will gain insight into our real condition.
Adamant |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 2:17:32 PM
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| Dear Yogani,how can be nadi shodhana pranayam such an enemy?i just saw someone facing problems and inbalances thats why i suggested nadi shodhana pranayam as a possible remedy to heal that problem.that shouldnt be controversial or polemical.About my formation on yoga,ive been practising 25 years already,following Shivananda and later Satyananda style,i dont think that my quotes are impressive at all but cientifically supported.finaly i dont understand why someone can affirm things that are wrong and when asked for an explanation or source ,the person seems to disappear.fanatism is nothing but a manoeuvre for deniying the truth. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 2:36:30 PM
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Hi Omarkaya:
Nadi Shodhana is not an enemy. It is one of many tools that have been explored for the AYP toolkit. In this case, explored extensively for many years, and found to be secondary to other things determined to be more balanced and more effective for cultivating human spiritual transformation.
It is what it is.
This does not mean nadi shodhana will not be a useful practice for those who are energetically sensitive and need a relaxation technique. It is an excellent relaxation technique, and does facilitate meditation afterwards.
For those following the AYP approach, I do not recommend using nadi shodhana with kumbhaka, mudras and bandhas for kundalini awakening. It is not a mixture that will lead to a stable outcome.
This is not to say nadi shodhana is not appropriate as core practice in other paths. I am only saying that its role is limited in the AYP baseline system.
So by all means share your opinions, preferably based on experience, rather than what someone else said or wrote about it. In this community, direct experience trumps scripture and external gurus. The truest scripture we are ever going to find is within us, assuming we are using effective tools to access it.
And...
The guru is in you.
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 2:42:08 PM
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Hi Akasha, Me Paul/Nathan/Puri/TheMysticSeeker/KonchokÖselDorje/AdamantClearLightMind, I go by other names than that too. My momma calls me Natiebug. My friends call me "natedawg." What's in a name? Just a tag. My grandfather is a yogi from Varanasi whose gurus were many of the people Omarkaya listed. I've been practicing nadi shodana for 30 years. Sure, it's a good practice. But from a kundalini yoga practice standpoint, it is not fundamental. Meditation is fundamental. Pranayama is just supplementary, and in my opinion can be discarded altogether. I've been at kundalini yoga for since I was five years old. I had visions and different experiences that informed me about another path.
Sorry if I upset you, but maybe you need a little shake up. Honestly, I struggled with bookish knowledge of buddhism for two years until I completed three weeks of retreat time plus thousands of hours of personal meditation time using buddhist methods, resulting in my own powerful realization of the Clear Light. Since then, everything, every practice has resolved itself, self-organized as a total picture. As the old song goes, "I can see clearly now." I can see all the many paths and how they achieve the goal. For example, I can teach you a practice that simply identifies six aspects of awareness and maintains mindfulness of those 24/7. There's also a practice of simple kumbhaka and then meditation on space. One can also just recognize the one of 12-links of dependent origination, for example, the six-sense media and simply "let the sight be with the seen," etc. Again one can just see the void nature of consciousness.
There are numerous paths to awakening. AYP is just one. One that I can agree with. There happens to be several people here with excellent qualities. People with whom I feel great affinity and learn from tremendously. Then, there are also new comers, like what I was, who come here to shake things up and end up shook up, like me. I'm just trying to pay if forward.
Adamant |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 2:46:14 PM
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| Yogani when you mean you want real experienced results,what do you exactly mean?ive been experiencing the great labour of this nadi shodhana pranayam,for almost 20 years and believe me its incredible good and helpful for mind and body,its an authentic detoxifying and purifiying pranayam tremendously balancing ,very practical for different variations of itself ,thats why it is a complete practice in itself and wonderful to reach deep meditation. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 2:55:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by omarkaya
Yogani when you mean you want real experienced results,what do you exactly mean?ive been experiencing the great labour of this nadi shodhana pranayam,for almost 20 years and believe me its incredible good and helpful for mind and body,its an authentic detoxifying and purifiying pranayam tremendously balancing ,very practical for different variations of itself ,thats why it is a complete practice in itself and wonderful to reach deep meditation.
That's great. Go for it. But don't impose it on others as the only way, because it isn't the only way.
The guru is in you.
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 8:11:43 PM
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| this example of nadi shodhana,with antar and bahir kumbhaka(internal and external retention),will only certify my quote.in this technique bahir kumbhaka or outer breath retention is introduced.1 inhale through the left nostril for a count of 5,retain the breath inside for a count of 5,then exhale through the right nostril for a count of 5.after exhalation,when the lungs are deflated as much as possible,close both nostrils and hold the breath out for the chosen count.The glottis may be slightly contracted to hold the air out of the lungs.Exhale slightly through the right nostril inmediately before inhaling to release the lock on the lungs and the glottis.inhale slowly through the right nostril,retain the breath inside,then exhale through the exhale through the left nostril.Again hold the breath outside to the count,with both nostrils closed.This is one round,practise 5 rounds.Ratio and timing:The ratio should begin as 1:4:2:2for inhalation internal retention ,exhalation external retention,The duration of inhalation should be slowly increased from 5 to 6 then from 6 to 7 and so on,and the duration of exhalation and retention should be adjusted accordingly---Advanced practice.Nadi shodhana may be practised in conjuction with jalandhara ,moola and uddiyana bandhas.First practise jalandhara bandha with internal breath retention only.Once perfected combine jalandhara bandha with external breath retention,Then introduce moolabhanda with jalandhara bandha during internal retention,then external retention.When this has been apply uddiyana bandha on external retention only.Duration 5 to 10 rounds or 10 to 15 minutes daily.Benefits:Nadi shodhana ensures physical health and mental vitality.It clears pranic blockages and balances ida and pingala nadis causing sushumna to flow,which leads to deep states of meditation and spiritual awekening.--Practice note:Many sadhakas use a mantra such as om namah shivaya or Gayatri repeated a certain number of times to count the duration of breath.This combines the benefits of japa with those of pranayam,and also makes the practise easier.Nadi shodhana is most effective if it is followed by a concentrated type of meditation practice such as antar trataka or chidakasha dharana,nadi shodhana is a balancing purifying pranayam and is not on the list of tranquillizacing pranayamas,but if someone is interested for some tranqullizacing pranayamas they are:Sheetali pranayam,Sheektari pranayam,Ujayi pranayam,Brahmari pranayam.Adamant here you have a very good nadi shodhana exercise which combines kumbhaka rechaka uddiyana bandha and japa, in case you want to try it but you should be careful couse it is not for beginners,its very cautious to start with more simple techniques of nadi shodhana. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 04:15:23 AM
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| I have to say that I am a fan of nadi shodhana pranayama myself but I do it somewhat differently. First of all I use the tongue to regulate the nostrils in kechari rather than fingers. I also use the chin pump in conjunction with this and this combination really feels right for my process and after a few minutes it feels that the energy is moving the practice rather than force of will which is very gentle. I don't do counting but proceed according to feeling and comfort level and do use kumbhaka both internal and external with all bandhas. Practicing this way is I guess a combination of Yogani's AYP teaching and my Iyengar training and really feels potent. It feels like a gentle dredging up of resistances deep inside and releasing them with breath until the main feeling is the flow of energy. I do this for 20-25 minutes prior to AYP deep meditation of equal duration. It really doesn't seem like the sort of practice that I could recommend to anyone else as few could do it but I have 28 years of pranayama practice under my belt and it works for me. |
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tr00don
Canada
4 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2018 : 10:24:28 AM
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I know this is an old thread but I think it's a good place to start for me because of the importance of the topic. The technical question that I would like to ask is simple and I hope to receive a short and simple answer :)
Pranayama (nadi shodhana, more precisely) is described in the Yogatattva Upanished as consisting in a rhythmic breathing cycle of 16 (inhalation) - 64 (retention) - 32 (exhalation) matras (1 matra ~ 1 s), repeated 80 times without break, 4 times a day until kevala kumbhaka is achieved, and once a day from then on. The duration of 80 repeats is approximately 3 hours. I consider this Upanishad to be the best pranayama historical reference and I will not discuss variants.
Has any member of this forum been able to practice the 16-64-32 matra cycle 80 times without break? If yes, would you care to share some advice for those who are trying to achieve the same? Thank you.
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Edited by - tr00don on Aug 17 2018 11:24:35 AM |
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Dogboy
USA
2198 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2018 : 11:32:10 AM
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Yes, this is an old thread, Victor, the posted before died five or so years ago.
Welcome
That pranayama is quite specific in structure, and I would not dream of debating its merits. I felt you should know most who post here are seeking help with their AYP practitioners, so you may not have the audience or experience you are seeking.
 heres to success
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jigjnasu
France
28 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2018 : 12:24:03 PM
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Hi tr00don,
I read the Yogatattva Upanished two days ago and are quite curious about it. Fun that you dig out this thread for that 
I would like to comprehend how spinal breathing address the issue of cleaning nadis and balancing ida and pingala and more generally how it works. Curiosity doesn't kill the cat for sure yes ?
In this post I read that Yogani didn't choose it for the AYP Toolkit, is it incompatible ? Is using nadi shodhana and spinal breathing will bring imbalance ?
Obviously I would prefer to get wisdom and knowledge from your experience please don't tell 'Test it for yourself'  .
More globally I would like to ask an open question here, the tread has already been dug up after all , how do you do to learn the processes and effect behind a practice ?
With love |
Edited by - jigjnasu on Aug 17 2018 12:45:48 PM |
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tr00don
Canada
4 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2018 : 11:57:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
you may not have the audience or experience you are seeking
Thanks.
How about nadi shodhana @ 8-32-16, which some call the "small pranayama"? This is relatively easy to achieve (I can do 20 repeats without break). For how many days/weeks should one practice this before safely increasing to 9-36-18, etc.? |
Edited by - tr00don on Sep 20 2018 1:28:10 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4375 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2018 : 2:20:21 PM
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quote:
I would like to comprehend how spinal breathing address the issue of cleaning nadis and balancing ida and pingala and more generally how it works. Curiosity doesn't kill the cat for sure yes ?
In this post I read that Yogani didn't choose it for the AYP Toolkit, is it incompatible ? Is using nadi shodhana and spinal breathing will bring imbalance ?
Obviously I would prefer to get wisdom and knowledge from your experience please don't tell 'Test it for yourself' .
More globally I would like to ask an open question here, the tread has already been dug up after all , how do you do to learn the processes and effect behind a practice ?
Hi Jigjnjsu,
Nadi shodhana works to purify the subtle neurobiology in a number of different ways:
Firstly, by restricting the breath to just one nostril at a time, the breath is slowed down. Slowing the breath down causes a gentle increase in the upward flow of prana in the body, as prana moves to compensate for the reduction in oxygen. The slower we make the breath, the more noticeable this effect is.
Secondly, by breathing through the nostrils, we increase the amount of prana that is absorbed by the side channels (ida and pingala), with every inbreath. These in turn become activated and as they are connected at the top and bottom ends to the spinal nerve, they will increase the purification and flow of prana through the central channel (sushumna).
Thirdly, because we are alternating the breath between left and right nostril, this purification of the side channels increases. Effectively, we are drawing prana into one side channel and then the other alternately, effecting the activation and balance of energies between these channels.
Lastly, if we are adding breath retention (kumbhaka) to the practice of nadi shodhana, either at the end of inhalation, or exhalation, or both, then we are adding an extra level of purification to the practice. Breath retention creates a powerful draw on prana from the root and also activates the lower and higher chakras, depending on which kind of breath retention it is.
In general, nadi shodhana is a gentle practice, which is suitable for beginners. If breath retention is added and the counts are taken up to high levels, then it becomes a more advanced practice and should be self-paced accordingly.
In lesson addition 41.1, Yogani says that people can practice nadi shodhana if they wish to and are especially drawn to the practice. It is not incompatible with AYP at all and compliments the AYP practices very well. It is not one of the main AYP practices though, because Spinal Breathing does the same job of purifying the spinal nerve, and therefor the whole of the subtle neurobiology, as nadi shodhana does, but it does it much faster and more effectively. So nadi shodhana becomes very much a lesser and almost redundant practice in AYP, once spinal breathing is included in the saddhana.
If you want to learn about the effects of nadi shodhana, the best way is to practice it and to find out. It can be included in your sequence for a few minutes before spinal breathing pranayama.
See here:
Addition 41.1 - Nadi Shodana Pranayama (Alternate Nostril Breathing)
"While spinal breathing does not include alternating nostril breathing, this is not a shortcoming. Otherwise nadi shodana would be included along with spinal breathing. It is possible to do both practices at the same time, but it would be complicating our practice for very little gain. That is one of the guiding principles in all of these lessons - Is there a substantial benefit derived through the addition of an element of practice? If there is not a significant benefit from an additional element of practice, we leave it out. That is how we keep the routine of practices as simple and efficient as possible. Otherwise we would be loading ourselves up with all sorts of supplementary things and risk losing focus on our main practices. There will be plenty of practices added as we go through the lessons that will have huge impacts on results. We want to save our attention, time and energy for those, so we can achieve the most with our yoga.
Still, if you are an avid nadi shodana practitioner, or are strongly attracted to it, it will do no harm to incorporate it into your routine. If you have time, you can do some alternate nostril breathing before spinal breathing. Or you can incorporate it into your spinal breathing session. Keep in mind that nadi shodana is not recommended if you are a beginner in spinal breathing." [Yogani]
Hi tr00don,
Welcome to the forums! 
quote:
How about nadi shodhana @ 8-32-16, which some call the "small pranayama"? This is relatively easy to achieve (I can do 20 repeats without break). For how many days/weeks should one practice this before safely increasing to 9-36-18, etc.?
What you are describing here is an advanced breathing count including bahir kumbhaka (breath retained in the body).
It is not possible to say that such-and-such a practice will be safe after a certain amount of time. What practices are safe to do, depends entirely on the individual practitioner and will be based on how long they have been practicing, the stage of awakening that they are going through and their degree of sensitivity to practices at that time.
So, one practice may be suitable for one person, but not for another and it can even be the case that a particular advanced level practice could be unsuitable for someone who has been practicing for a long time, but be suitable for someone with less experience.
Christi |
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the importance of nadi shodhana pranayam
