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jotagui
Brazil
14 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 27 2022 : 12:38:52 AM
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first of all I do know that question is kind of pointless, because there isn't really a way to explain the unexplainable, and it´s sort of trying to explain to a blind person what it´s like to be able to see. However, it would be nice to have some idea.
I have grasped the intellectual aspect of it, like the absence of individuality, awareness of awareness, feeling all pervading etc. What I want to know is, what happens there? I´ve seen people saying it´s like a near death experience, an out of body experience, like all the knowledge in the world is suddenly downloaded into your brain, or like you become the coder behind the game and can do anything you want... and also I´ve noticed that people avoid talking about "what´s on the other side". I did a vipassana retreat last year, and got initiated in kriya yoga last weekend, and when you ask such questions they kinda deviate from the subject, or answer in a funny and not at all clarifying way. It´s basically "do what we´re saying and you´ll know". |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2022 : 8:38:08 PM
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Hi Jotagui,
I think you have hit the nail on the head already. Samadhi is essentially what we experience when we transcend the mind and the senses. This means that it cannot be understood by the mind, or explained using language, as words all refer to various aspects of the mind and the objects of the senses. This is why people are telling you that you need to practice, and then you will know. They are not wrong! 
But there are a few words that do refer to things that are beyond the objects of the mind and senses, and these words begin to describe samadhi. Words like bliss, unity, love, peace, unbounded, uncreated and so on.
To make it more confusing, there are levels of samadhi. There are stages of samadhi where things like thoughts, memories, feelings and even sights, sounds etc. are still present. These stages are collectively referred to as savikalpa samadhi, or samadhi with fluctuations. Then there are deeper states of samadhi, where these things are not present. These states of samadhi are referred to as nirvikalpa samadhi, or samadhi without fluctuations. And we can move between these different states of samadhi.
The one thing that is the case for every state of samadhi, is that the Self is at the forefront of all experiences. It is as if anything happening is like a wave on the ocean of the Self, but we know our self to be fundamentally the ocean, at all times. Everything else is just a dance, or a play (lila), on the surface of consciousness, and not separate from that consciousness.
Christi
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jotagui
Brazil
14 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2022 : 11:15:12 PM
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yeah I figured 
however, I'm still trying to figure out where the out of body experiences fit in all this. I also remember some parts of the autobiography of a yogi where yogananda describes the astral world, and his first experience in cosmic consciousness:
"My body became immovably rooted; breath was drawn out of my lungs as if by some huge magnet. Soul and mind instantly lost their physical bondage and streamed out like a fluid piercing light from my every pore. The flesh was as though dead; yet in my intense awareness I knew that never before had I been fully alive. My sense of identity was no longer narrowly confined to a body but embraced the circumambient atoms. People on distant streets seemed to be moving gently over my own remote periphery. The roots of plants and trees appeared through a dim transparency of the soil; I discerned the inward flow of their sap." -- Read more: http://yogananda.com.au/aoy/cosmic_...ess.html#top
I'm thinking this is a failed attempt to put the experiece into words.
Anyway, thank you! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2022 : 11:59:43 PM
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Hi Jotagui,
Thanks for sharing that.
So, that is Yogananda describing perceiving the world with his inner senses, which may or may not be a samadhi state. It would be a state of samadhi, if the Self is the fundamental state of being and everything else is happening within That. It is not clear from this description that that is in fact the case. So, it could simply be a shift from the 5 physical senses to the 5 inner senses without samadhi being involved.
Everyone has 5 inner senses, inner sight, inner hearing, inner touch and so on... So, along with the mind, we all have eleven senses all together. With inner sight we can see through the backs of our heads, and also see things far away, beyond the range of the physical vision. We can also see things happening in other realms, such as angels, or the ghosts of dead people. With inner hearing, we can also hear things within the body, as well as things in other dimensions, such as the singing of angels, and so on.
So, there is a difference between samadhi, astral projection and seeing with our inner perceptions.
Christi |
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Jac
Switzerland
28 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2022 : 12:52:54 PM
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Hi Christi,
Thank you for your always interesting posts. Could you now define sahaja samadhi?
Jac |
Edited by - Jac on Oct 28 2022 4:21:40 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2022 : 7:48:37 PM
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Hi Jac,
Sahaja means "naturally" or "spontaneously", so this is naturally or spontaneously arising samadhi. It simply means samadhi that arises naturally during the day when we are doing things, or it could happen when falling asleep, or waking up in the morning. Usually when we begin to experience samadhi it will happen during sitting practices, so sahaja samadhi is normally a form of samadhi that comes in later on, after samadhi during sitting practices has become well established.
In my own case though, I experienced sahaja nirvikapla samadhi as the first kind of samadhi that I experienced. So, it does not always happen in the usual order.
Christi |
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Jac
Switzerland
28 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2022 : 12:27:22 PM
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Oh okay, you distinguish the samadhi that happens during the practices, which can be nirvikalpa or savikalpa, from the spontaneous samadhi that happens outside of the practices and which is called sahaja.
So if I understand correctly, the sahaja samadhi is either nirvikalpa or savikalpa?
Another question : if you are driving and suddenly you experience sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi, what happens?
Jac |
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jotagui
Brazil
14 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2022 : 1:50:28 PM
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Hi Christi!
In that case, the astral travel and access to other dimensions etc are part of the path, but not necessarily the final goal. That means you can access those realms but you are still "you". But once you get to the final goal, there's a shift in perception, and you start experiencing the physical plane, and other planes, as the "absolute". So samadhi does not mean "experiencing" this, or that, but merely a shift in perception.
Did I get that right?
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Wil
Sweden
150 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2022 : 5:26:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jac
Another question : if you are driving and suddenly you experience sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi, what happens?
Jac
I always had this question on my mind. Maybe that is way I do not like driving far distances |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2022 : 6:53:08 PM
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Hi Jac,
quote:
Oh okay, you distinguish the samadhi that happens during the practices, which can be nirvikalpa or savikalpa, from the spontaneous samadhi that happens outside of the practices and which is called sahaja.
So if I understand correctly, the sahaja samadhi is either nirvikalpa or savikalpa?
Yes, all forms of samadhi are either "with fluctuations" or "without fluctuations". Fluctuations are things that move, so things like thoughts, memories, sights, sounds, tastes, ideas, beliefs, forms of identification, and so on.
quote:
Another question : if you are driving and suddenly you experience sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi, what happens?
You would have to pull over and stop the car. I have experienced sahaja samadhi whilst driving many times. It is not dangerous, because these things generally come over a period of time. So, there is time to stop, if necessary. I have not experienced sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi whilst driving. The same can happen when the crown chakra is opening. Sometimes the bliss is too powerful to be able to concentrate on the road. So, again, you would need to stop the car and wait for things to settle down. But again, it happens gradually, with a slow build-up of bliss, and there is plenty of time to stop.
I have never heard of anyone crashing their car because of either sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi or crown chakra openings.
Hi Jotagui,
quote:
Hi Christi!
In that case, the astral travel and access to other dimensions etc are part of the path, but not necessarily the final goal. That means you can access those realms but you are still "you". But once you get to the final goal, there's a shift in perception, and you start experiencing the physical plane, and other planes, as the "absolute". So samadhi does not mean "experiencing" this, or that, but merely a shift in perception.
Did I get that right?
That's right. The physical world is still there for an enlightened being. The astral worlds are still there for the enlightened being. So, someone might ask, what is the difference between an unenlightened person experiencing astral travel, and an enlightened person experiencing astral travel? Essentially it is that the unenlightened person thinks they are someone, going somewhere, experiencing something. The enlightened being knows that they are not a person, they are going nowhere and they are experiencing nothing. Everything is them. This is summed up in the Sanskrit phrase: "Tat twam asi", which means "That art thou", where "That" is everything. They are always the ocean and the waves, and they know there is no separation between the ocean and the waves.
Christi |
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Jac
Switzerland
28 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2022 : 8:27:45 PM
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Thank you for your always clear answers Christi.
Hey Wil, if I were you I would avoid skydiving too!
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2022 : 10:15:07 PM
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quote:
Hey Wil, if I were you I would avoid skydiving too!
Hi Jac and Wil,
You don't actually need to worry about skydiving. It would be very unlikely that anyone would enter sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi whilst skydiving, because these things generally happen when we are calm and relaxed! And skydiving is usually the very opposite of that!
But, even if it did happen, we would still be fine. The body can and does take care of itself if necessary. There was a time when I was in Thailand and I entered sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi for three days. During those three days I travelled from a village in the North East of Thailand to Bangkok. There were only two moments when I was conscious of the physical world, or anything at all, other than bliss and light, during that time. Each of those moments lasted for around one second. One moment was when I was stepping onto a bus, and the other moment was when I was looking at a wall with flowers on. Other than that, I was only conscious of the Self. But, when I came back to consciousness of the physical world, I was in a room in a monastery, I was clean and was not hungry. So, my body had been able to function fully without conscious awareness of the physical world.
One of the things that I saw during meditation, the day before I entered samadhi, was that we do not generate our own thoughts. Which means, that we also do not produce our own actions, or rather we do not produce the actions that we think of as ours. We like to think that we are in control, but we actually never have been. That is all part of the illusion
Christi
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Jac
Switzerland
28 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2022 : 10:09:17 AM
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Hi Christi,
Amazing...
Have you ever thought of writing a book about spiritual transformation? I believe you should...
Jac |
Edited by - Jac on Oct 31 2022 12:13:21 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2022 : 12:19:15 PM
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Hi Jac and all,
Yes, I think it would be useful for people who are going through a spiritual awakening. So, I will do that. It is just a matter of finding the time.
At the moment I am involved in a lot of projects. The teacher training courses, online retreats, residential retreats and filming AYP video courses. I don't actually get even one day a week off! But, as soon as I do, I will write a book!
Christi |
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Wil
Sweden
150 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2022 : 8:13:13 PM
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Interesting to hear about your car experience Christi. Driving feels more safe to me now that you say that samadhi would be gradual. I mean, in comparison to being dormant in ones body for three days I'm sure it will be fine.
Furthermore, the guru in me can see that adrenaline charged activities may be too 'external' which pulls in another direction than Samadhi does. Which would explain that it becomes gradual compared to if Samadhi says hello in calmer circumstances like meditation or while being on a walk.
In the end, what if there is a seasoned skydiver yogi out there
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2022 : 1:14:46 PM
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Hi Jac, Christi, Will, and all,
I do not know about skydiving, but experiences and opening can happen anywhere.
The samadhi experience could be so intense that one loses awareness of the physical realm. It happens also during regular living, like when one walks around, teaches a class, or is in a middle of a conversation. One is still perfectly aware of the physical realm, while only transparent Light of empty space is seen. The physical realm is not separate of the Absolute. They are One showing Itself in different ways. Every time it feels like a download happens, that it happens for a specific reason, that something is shown and taught.
While it is inspiring to hear about others’ experiences, it seems that for each of us things happen a little different. Each of us is unique, and things will happen at their own pace, in their own way. Each of us is here for a reason, and that shapes our spiritual transformation. In Buddhist teachings, it is said that realization/awakening never happens at the wrong time (does that mean no big bang during skydiving?). We support it with spiritual practices and a spiritual lifestyle and allow it to unfold with trust in its wisdom. 
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2022 : 05:57:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jac
Another question : if you are driving and suddenly you experience sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi, what happens?
Jac
And this is why I have stopped driving.
Sey |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2022 : 12:29:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
quote:
Originally posted by Jac
Another question : if you are driving and suddenly you experience sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi, what happens?
Jac
And this is why I have stopped driving.
Sey
When I start feeling too blissed while I drive, I simply turn on the radio and listen to the news. It works every single time. |
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Jac
Switzerland
28 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2023 : 12:46:41 PM
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Hi Christi and all,
I have another terminology question : how do you connect the different samadhi we talked about to the states called turiya and turiyatita?
Jac
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2023 : 12:48:35 PM
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Hi Jac,
Turiya is the "fourth state" which is pure awareness. Samadhi is a state of meditative absorption which can happen at any time, i.e. whilst meditating or whilst living our normal daily life. Pure awareness is always present within samadhi, but the degree to which it is present differs depending on the depth of the samadhi.
So, you may see the sentence: "If someone meditates on Turiya, they may enter samadhi."
Turiyatita is a term used in Tantra to refer to the awakened state of liberation of a jnani. So, it is synonymous with jivanmukta.
Christi |
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Jac
Switzerland
28 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2023 : 1:01:39 PM
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| Ok, so do you agree if I say that the goal of yoga is to be more and more in the turiya state? And this in the three states of waking, sleeping and dreaming? |
Edited by - Jac on Jan 15 2023 1:17:11 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2023 : 1:41:27 PM
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Hi Jac,
The first three states are waking, dreaming and deep sleep. Turiya is the pure awareness, the inner silence, that is both present in the first three states, and which transcends them. So, turiya is synonymous with "atman", and "Brahman". And yes, the goal of yoga is to come to know turiya, and to abide in that, as that.
This is from the Mandukya Upanishad:
"The one who experiences all of these states of consciousness is the omniscient, indwelling source and director of all. This one is the womb out of which all of the other emerges. All things originate from and dissolve back into this source." [Mandukya Upanishad Verse 6]
and this is from lesson 157:
"There are three states of consciousness we all know well:
1. Waking state - what we experience in our daily activity.
2. Dreaming state - what we sometimes experience in sleep.
3. Deep dreamless sleep state - what we don't experience much, but we were somewhere.
Inner silence is a state distinctly different from these three. We know it in our deep meditation as blissful awareness without any objects. Or it can be mixed with objects too, like thoughts, feelings, or whatever. But in its pristine state, it is without objects. So in yoga it gets its own number as a unique state of consciousness:
4. Inner silence - it is all those descriptive words and definitions mentioned already. In yoga it is sometimes called simply "Turiya," which means "the fourth state" in Sanskrit.
The difference between inner silence and the other three states of consciousness is that inner silence is unchanging and can be cultivated in the nervous system as an unending presence superimposed under, in, and through the other three states of consciousness. Those who have meditated for some time find this to be the case. It starts as some inner peace and an awareness of a silent quality coexisting with and within the objects of our perception. This happens with external observations through the senses, and with our thoughts and feelings too. We see them as the objects that they are, occurring external to our unconditioned inner silent awareness. With daily yoga practices, inner silence grows and becomes the movie screen upon which all our experiences are projected. We become the movie screen - the infinite movie screen of life." [Yogani]
And this is from the AYP glossary of terms:
"Turiya - Means, the fourth state. This is the experience of inner silence cultivated in meditation. It is called turiya because it is distinct from the first three states of consciousness waking, dreaming and deep dreamless sleep. As yoga practices advance, turiya gradually comes to coexist as a constant condition during the other three states of consciousness. It is the beginning stage of enlightenment. In that situation, one is never unconscious, whether awake, dreaming, or in deep sleep. That is called witnessing." [Yogani]
So, as usual, it all comes down to the cultivation of inner silence, and all these words are just different ways of describing that.
Christi
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2023 : 2:04:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jac
Hi Christi and all,
I have another terminology question : how do you connect the different samadhi we talked about to the states called turiya and turiyatita?
Jac
Hi Jac,
Another way to make the distinction between turya and turyatita is in relation to the witness state: If turya (the forth state) is the witness, present and transcending the first three states, in turyatita the witness dissolves into pristine unity.' Turyatita is the ground state from which all the other states emerge. Turyatita is a state of being and non-being and something else. |
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Jac
Switzerland
28 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2023 : 2:33:09 PM
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Hi Blanche and Christi,
Thank you very much for your enlightening answers!
I feel so lucky to know and practice AYP and also have access to this forum...
Jac
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what exactly is samadhi?
