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Zaelithe
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 19 2021 : 5:04:31 PM
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I grew up in a non-religious family and social setting with only the most wish-washy form of Christianity (a sort of performative art at Christmas, Easter and weddings). From early in my teens I had a form of Bhakti that sent me seeking and reading whatever spiritual literature I could gets my hands on, along with quite a lot of weird stuff. I have happily ended up here as the culmination of these seekings and am joyfully mining the rich veins of knowledge and wisdom. I am ‘devoted’ to my AYP practices such that when I have had to self-pace, I really miss them and the ‘call’ to return to them got stronger as time went on.
However, when I read the stories and histories of those who attained liberation, it seems that they all had great devotion to a master or god/goddess - they had a powerful Ishta to which to aspire and this set the direction and powered the trajectory of their lives.
This whole aspect seems to be missing in me. I don’t understand worship or what it really means or feels like. Similarly, I haven’t felt the passion of devotion to an individual or ideal either. I have tried to identify something as an ideal but it seems like an intellectual exercise and I’m not feeling it at the heart level. I am interested in the experiences of others in this regard and also to know if my failure to worship or find an object of devotion is likely to slow my progress?
It’s odd really, the experience of ecstasy and inner expansion is something I am becoming familiar with but that doesn’t translate to the outside world - I get there is no ‘outside’ or separation at the level of reality but need a concept to work with. I feel a bit like a key ‘piece’ is not in place in me and I don’t know where to look for it!
Blessings, Z |
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2021 : 10:36:15 PM
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| Zaelithe, Much of what you share I can relate to. I sense your ideal is Truth. You sense AYP offers the energetic groundwork for entering into this conceptual temple and you are attempting to find the connection between the ecstatic experiences (that require self pacing) with the path to enlightenment. I've often posed similar questions on this forum. Yogani does repeatedly lay out a fairly simple path. My understanding is inner silence is one of the first milestones. Over time (and for some individuals this comes first by other practices) the ecstatic energies begin to develop. These meet and lead to the expression of divine love. I have wondered at times if that is just a fairy tail of sorts. After 2 1/2 years of a dedicated practice I am coming to believe in this path. My simplistic way of looking at it is many of us seek Truth. We want to really understand why we exist on this earthly plain. Many, if not most people, I run into every day just want to have less suffering and more pleasure and are not drawn to these deeper existential struggles. For the serious seeker, which I sense in you, the commitment to a system of practice such as AYP gives a scafolding upon which one can structure the process. I have been delighted by the combination of inner silence and ecstatic conductivity. Both are gifts, a type of siddhi, which I find give me motivation to continue on the path. I think of this as filling the tank. When you feel your basic needs are met, you have more to share. What I mean when I say basic needs, I'm referring to basic energetic needs. I came to AYP struggling with a sense of deprivation from a loveless marriage. There was a sense I had of a deep need that could not be filled. Feeling the huge reservoir of ecstatic conductivity and at times ecstatic bliss gives me relief from seeking this from others. From a place of feeling energetically full I feel more able to give. That's my take on this process, hope it helps. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2021 : 08:01:25 AM
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Hello Zaelithe
It is very important that you stick to what you feel and what is spontaneously coming to you.There are no rules, and not all teachers had powerful devotion.The path is never the same, it changes as we change and as per own needs.Don't compare yourself to anyone.Once Adyashanti said that the altar keeps on getting emptier...and for some teachers they enjoy rituals and devotion while perfectly knowing that all bhakti is ultimately towards oneself and not a separate ideal
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Edited by - maheswari on Oct 20 2021 08:04:47 AM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2021 : 08:23:08 AM
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Dear Zaelithe,
I understand you perfectly. Allow me to share how my devotion moved from just longing for the ideal 'Truth' to include other masters. Seeking the Truth (God without form) does remain my highest ideal but I find God in form provides for a tenderness of heart that is so human.
After about two years of consistent meditation practice, a most extraordinary thing happened, the first event in a journey filled with the extraordinary. Light appeared within me. Divine Light.
The first time I noticed inner light, it was coming from the heart. My heart looked like a dark rock which had started cracking up and light shone between the cracks. Over the next couple of weeks, the cracks got bigger and I could see the Universe. Finally, during a meditation sitting, my heart "exploded" and out of the brilliant light came Jesus. He looked at me with gentle eyes. Jesus had not crossed my mind in years. I never had much of a relationship with him even as a child, when I still believed. Yet, there he was, reminding me of the power of my baptism in His name. He was from then on imprinted on my Consciousness, so that no matter what I was looking at externally, I could still see his face. He was my constant companion for a good ten years.
Another most beautiful experience with Jesus. One Sunday afternoon I was taking my usual nap in bed and I was overcome with longing for God, for Truth, an intense desire that still drives me day and night to this day. It is an exquisite suffering. The longing would normally build up and up and I would curl up tight with the sweet suffering and eventually, it would climax into waves of ecstatic bliss. That day, I ‘saw’ a tear of viscous, clear liquid bubble up from my heart and just as it was about to burst, Jesus bended down over me and with cupped hands, gathered the tear from my weeping heart and drank it!
I have had numerous experiences with Jesus, some while carrying out mundane daily tasks. Just a couple of weeks ago, I noticed light coming from the "nail holes" in my feet, it bloomed into Jesus.
And funnily, I do not consider myself a great Devotee at all but a Truth Seeker. I have had experiences with other masters as well, SriYukteswar, Padmasambhava. I have a picture of the latter on the wall in front of my desk and on my phone screen-saver. He serves the purpose of stopping my nonsense with one glance  . One glance and my mind is stilled.
As long as you are devoted to your practices that's all you need, really.
Sey 
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Zaelithe
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2021 : 6:41:18 PM
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Thank you all so much for these beautiful responses.
Interpaul: the idea of having Truth as an ideal feels right. I have probably not considered it in the past as I might have twisted myself into philosophical knots about the nature of truth. If I can accept that it is what I have always been seeking and working towards, maybe I can drop the mental contortions of trying to define it.
Maheswari: ‘the altar keeps on getting emptier’ 
Sey: thank you for sharing such powerful experiences- especially as they were unexpected and unlooked for - there is hope for me yet! |
Edited by - Zaelithe on Oct 20 2021 8:22:07 PM |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2021 : 12:18:14 PM
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| Sey, thank you for sharing |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2021 : 8:15:57 PM
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Zaelithe, I cannot see that anything is missing. You are devoted to your practice and the calling for Truth is strong in you.
The calling takes different forms in different people. Yours doesn't have to be the same as other people's. You can only walk your own path. Enjoy the journey
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2021 : 11:20:34 PM
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Hi InterPaul,
quote:
My understanding is inner silence is one of the first milestones. Over time (and for some individuals this comes first by other practices) the ecstatic energies begin to develop. These meet and lead to the expression of divine love. I have wondered at times if that is just a fairy tail of sorts. After 2 1/2 years of a dedicated practice I am coming to believe in this path.
It can sound like a fairy tale. In fact it sounds like the greatest fairy tail of them all, doesn't it? Everyone is both capable of finding divine love in their own heart, and in fact this is both their destiny, and their birth right. What could be greater than that as the defining outcome of the human race?
Personally, I can confirm that it is true. And I would never have believed it, if I had not experienced it for myself. But, it does take time, which is why I am always advising patience. My own path has been slower than most, mainly because there were not many spiritual maps when I started out on the path. There were few spiritual teachers and few spiritual books. There was no internet, and so it was a very slow process of travelling from one place to another, and one country to another, finding out what I could along the way.
On my own path, I experienced peace and inner silence about 5-years after beginning the practice of yoga. But, I would say it was around 14-years after that, that I experienced full-body ecstasy for the first time. So, that is 19-years after beginning my practice formally. I did not keep a diary, but if I had to guess, I would say that it was another year before I experienced the merging of ecstasy and stillness and the production of divine love. Even this is not the end of the journey. There is a long drawn-out process of deepening and stabilizing of this experience, and of the rising into the crown and back down into the heart.
I am not wishing to put you off in any sense, as it is the greatest experience anyone could ever have. In fact it is beyond all experiences. But I am simply warning you not to expect too much, too soon, and then to end up feeling disappointed unnecessarily. Of course, everyone has their own timeline in terms of spiritual progress and some people progress faster than others. But, I would say, think in terms of decades of practice, rather than years of practice. Most people I know who have made real progress on the spiritual path, have been practicing for ten, twenty, or thirty years, or more, with only a very few exceptions to that.
In terms of the fairy tales, personally I believe that they are all about this process of spiritual awakening, and that is why they were so popular, being told again and again. Because there is something deep inside everyone that knows this knowledge is true. The fairy tales are all different, but they have common themes. The woman (shakti) who is pure of heart (sattva) meeting her prince (siva) who also has to prove he is pure (her true prince). Then they fall in love - the merging of shakti and siva in the heart centre. The woman is sometimes poor, representing poverty and humility, but then finds out that she is destined to become the Queen (the crown). And there is usually someone who is evil, who puts obstacles in the path, that have to be overcome (karmas). And then of course, there is the common theme of awakening from a great sleep. And it is always the woman (shakti kundalini) who awakens from the great sleep and then marries the prince, and together they inherit the whole kingdom (of God). So, it is the return to the garden of Eden, and the reversal of the Fall.
So, I would say that instead of the process of spiritual awakening being a fairy tale, in fact, the fairy tales are stories of spiritual awakening, which are not meant to be about people at all, but about only one person. Everything that happens in the fairy tale, is happening inside one person.
Christi
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2021 : 03:59:13 AM
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| Christi, Thanks for sharing more of your backstory. An interesting take on the fairy tales. Although I often share my doubts, I was actually sharing my hopeful side with Zaelithe. I no longer have doubt in the veracity of inner silence or ecstatic conductivity as I've experienced both. As you commented in your recent podcast, the two can meet during meditation, creating confusion. I have begun feeling the silence infused with the ecstatic. Although I've only practiced AYP for 2 1/2 years I've spent many decades searching for Truth and have had glimpses. I wish I had discovered AYP years ago but I'm grateful I'm on this path now. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2021 : 12:58:04 PM
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quote:
As you commented in your recent podcast, the two can meet during meditation, creating confusion. I have begun feeling the silence infused with the ecstatic.
Hi InterPaul,
Yes, as you know, in the AYP writings, there is a fairly simple model presented, which goes: 1. The rise of bliss, 2. The rise of ecstasy, 3. The merging of bliss and ecstasy, producing unity, liberation and outpouring divine love. For some people, numbers 1. and 2. can happen the other way around.
The model is correct, but is very basic. Initial experiences of the rising of prana in the body, merging with inner silence, may not be so ecstatic. They can even be uncomfortable and unpleasant (powerful emotions for example) and may feel a long way off things like unity, freedom and divine love!
This is a link to the podcast that you referred to, for anyone reading along, who may not aware of it.
Christi |
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2021 : 4:22:53 PM
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| Christi, Thanks. I am happy my path now is mostly pleasant, only sprinkled with doubt at times. As always your guidance is greatly appreciated. |
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Confused about devotion
