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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
 Posted - May 08 2011 : 5:57:21 PM
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One night's pillow talk after the first time my Hubby tried meditating...
Lizzy: How was meditation?
Hubby: It sucked. Nothing happened. I just sat there thinking, "iyam" for 20 minutes. And nothing. No stillness, no peace, nothing.
Lizzy: Oh okay. But isn't that like sitting down at the piano for the first time and wondering why you can't play Rachmaninoff?
Hubby: I don't think so. It's like sitting down at the piano and wondering why there's no sound coming out at all.
********
Another night's pillow talk after a couple of weeks of meditation sucking...
Lizzy: Maybe the piano is a bad analogy. Maybe it's more like the french horn. Not everyone can get a sound out of a french horn right away. And everyone sounds really bad at first. But you get better. And after about 10,000 hours of solid practice, playing is as natural as breathing.
Hubby: That's an interesting analogy.
Lizzy: I need meditation. I need it like I need water. But that doesn't mean you have to do it -- especially if you don't like it.
Hubby: I know. But I see what it's doing for you, and I want that too, so I'll just keep trying for a while.
*********
And so I am wondering... Is there anything I can do to give my hubby a leg up? Not that I'm any great shakes at meditation. I've only been doing it a month. I just know that it's important for it to be enjoyable. And since he wants to keep trying, I was wondering if anyone had some ideas that might help.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 6:03:29 PM
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If you notice anything different about him, let him know. Is he less stressed at all?
And ask about his work or driving to work - is it more relaxed? That is one of the most valuable effects in the modern world. Everyone is stressed, and it makes them interact poorly and live a shorter, less enjoyable life.
OK i said that the negative way, but you know. . |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 6:13:33 PM
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Hi Lizzy 
I would say, that the best thing you could remind your husband of at this point, is that the benefits of a deep meditation practice are not found during meditation... that with DM we aren't looking for any specific state of mind during the practice time. We just do the procedure of introducing the mantra, letting it refine, and coming back to it when we notice we are off. Then, the benefits of his meditation practice will begin to be noticed outside of meditation time.
Just my 2 cents
Love!
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davidg
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 6:39:39 PM
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it is when the mind is focused and the thoughts are still that meditating begins, before that it is like becoming an observer or a witness to your own mind, like stepping outside of yourself and watching you from a distance,
just a little thing.... each external distraction, each itch or scratch, each movement of the body, each thought that enters the mind.... let them be, they will come and go, have the scratch, listen to the external distraction but remain indiferent to it, then let them go,
now what was i thinking about.....
I AM
silence and stillness is in that last point of return to i am. focus on that point |
Edited by - davidg on May 08 2011 6:52:47 PM |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 9:02:32 PM
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Thanks! Much gratitude to you all. This helps. My Hubby is a firefighter/paramedic, which happens to be one of the best jobs in the world. (I know. I did it too for several years.) But it comes with second and third helpings of stress. He works a 24 hour shift with 48 hours off, except when they're short-staffed, in which case, it's more often a 48-hour shift with 24 hours off. And sometimes, when he's meditating, he drifts off into sleep. Even while sitting up. He's that tired.
I always share what I've posted with him, and he gives me feedback on what I've written before I post. But he's on-duty today, so I will send him the link. And he will read this anyway, but I will also tell him: he's more cheerful.  And I'll be more alert to the positive changes, and I'll just keep pointing them out.
Much love,
--Liz |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 9:36:11 PM
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Cool, Liz then meditation is perfect for him! I do emergency calls too, but non-life threatening usually, as an electrician. Usually just money and property is at risk. But it can be quite stressful because of the large amounts of money that are at risk, people are always pushing and expecting the impossible quickly, while they breathe down my neck. The work is hard enough by itself because of working on old stuff that wasn't done right and trying to act like I know what I'm doing and there are no problems. I imagine his job is like that to the max.
A few years ago there was so much stress that I decided I had to reduce the stress, or quit. That's when I became much more earnest with my meditation practices, and it worked perfectly! I love everything else about my job, and it was saved by meditation. I knew the other job options that were less stressful were super boring, and I hate that worse than stress. Sometimes I forget to meditate for a couple days, start getting stressed out, and that reminds me to get back to it.
I hope it can do the same for your husband. No pressure if he doesn't like it, but it's indispensable for me. I worked for a while as a surg. tech in the ER, so I know what that field is like! I can't imagine losing somebody and wondering if there was more you could have done. . . |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 10:37:30 PM
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Youre probably already aware of this but there are different meditation practices other than the IAM practice. My own personal opinion is that these are perhaps better meditative practices for a beginner before the use of a mantra is introduced. Some buddhist techniques like the mindfulness of breathing and metta bhavana are very effective.
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2011 : 11:29:40 PM
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While AYP and any comparable yoga systems demystify much of practice,
and make it much more predictable, one cannot say when the time
or the season is for another person to become spiritually interested
and activated should be. Even if that person is a spouse :-)
My spouse is very spiritual, and wants nothing to do with meditation.
And that's ok. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2011 : 02:05:02 AM
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| very well explained Carsonzi |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2011 : 08:30:35 AM
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| Thanks for all your comments! Yes, the obvious thing to tell someone who doesn't take to the french horn is, "Try the cello" (or any other instrument). But I think the barriers to successful meditation would be there for any form of meditation he tried. Your comments started me thinking about them. One is the lack of sleep. Another is the high stress of emergency response. A third is the herniation in the lumbar spine. It's actually really bad for him to sit still for any length of time. There's just hell to pay when the spine stiffens up. So in addition to your helpful comments, I think it might make sense to try a shorter meditation time -- like 10 minutes instead of 20. And I'll be sure to be observant of the positives. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2011 : 6:41:17 PM
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yes, shorter time is fine to start. Hopefully twice a day.
Meditation helps me a lot with loss of sleep.
With regular, twice a day meditation, you can lose a couple hours here and there and not notice it.
So I can get the same rest with 5 hours sleep, and 1/2 hour meditation (split in two parts), as i do
with 7 1/2 hours sleep and no meditation!! But it's cumulative; you have to do it consistently over a long time. |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2011 : 2:48:20 PM
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I's worth trying pillows of different kinds and heights, to make the posture comfortable. Some Satyananda schools even sell stools with a slanting upper side; very low (lower than a footstool) so one can sit in Vajrasana but rest most of the weight on the stool. Good after injuries etc.
Carson's point is key IMO. I always ask my shakti to see how she feels immediately after meditation, and to re-check a couple of times during the day. As for stress and stress professions, she also borrowed my copy of
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighting-Stress--Reviews[b]-meditation-research[/b]/dp/8291405166/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305053132&sr=1-2
and hasn't returned it yet... (no hurry in fighting stress ) |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 08:06:33 AM
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| Thanks again! He tried setting up the extra pillows around him and was able to be more comfortable. He also told me that he sets the timer for 20 minutes, and when he startles awake from a dream, he just lies down and takes a nap. He's been making it 12 to 15 minutes before napping. And I took Carson's point to heart. Thanks Carson! I had unwittingly set a false expectation. From very early on, I've been getting this delicious feeling of falling while meditating (like you feel when you're at the top of the curve on a roller coaster and you're just going down -- only a lot more gentle and subdued than that). And I'd come out of meditation all ready to rock-n-roll. And I've been telling him about that, and he sees the effect. My hubby comes out of meditation feeling all stiff and like he needs a nap. But we've both noticed the effects on him outside of meditation. We just didn't think to look for them before CarsonZi and Etherfish came along. So much gratitude to you all. This is gonna work. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 12:22:48 PM
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Hi Liz
It's very easy to get caught up in the "delicious experiences" that can happen during certain phases in our "meditation careers."  But, meditation is not always delicious (no matter what stage we are at)..... sometimes it can be the exact opposite in fact. Even after years of consistent practicing we may find our meditation times challenging and "rough." Experiences and phases will come and go, which is why it is best not to get tangled up in expectations. Even when we find ourselves having thousands of disturbing thoughts during meditation time, if we are following the simple procedure of introducing the mantra, allowing it to refine, and then coming back to the mantra when we notice we are off, we are engaging in perfect meditation. Truly, it is not about the experiences during practice time... it is all about how our daily life is affected that indicates whether or not our practices are working or not. There are some yoga traditions that even forbid talking about experiences in meditation just to try and avoid the trap of creating expectations in other practitioners. This has it's advantages and disadvantages. So, best to judge the effectiveness of our practices by how we feel outside of practice times as our experience in meditation can be drastically different even from one sitting to the next.
About your husband not being comfortable while sitting for meditation.... he may want to try a slightly reclined position, on a bed or couch or in an easy-chair. He could put some pillows behind him on the bed, recline into them slightly, and keep his legs straight out in front of him (or something like that). The best position for sitting practices is the most comfortable one. I would suggest that you recommend to your husband that he finds the most comfortable position he can and go with that. It's best not to meditate lying down as it can be easier to fall asleep that way, but an easy reclined position is fine in my opinion.
About finding himself dreaming during meditation. This is pretty normal and also a phase that he will likely go in and out of over time. It is something I have personally gone through many times over the past few years. I would suggest to him, that if he is not overloading, that when he comes out of a dream during meditation time, that he simply goes back to the mantra instead of going directly into a nap. If he is practicing DM for 20 minutes (I assume that is what he is aiming for since he is setting his timer for 20 minutes), then whenever he notices that he is off the mantra (like when he comes out of a dream) he should just go back to the mantra until the timer goes off. *Then* he should have his nap. (again, this is assuming that he is not overloading).
Hope this helps and best of luck to you both!
Love!
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 2:37:23 PM
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Carson..i totally agree with yr expalanations... "he should just go back to the mantra until the timer goes off. *Then* he should have his nap"...however isnt it better to avoid sleeping even after finishing the AYAM mantra time? isnt it better to do some activity then go to sleep? please enlighten me
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Liz dont be caught up in "delicious feeling"...it is all creations of the mind...the aim of Yoga is not creating pleasant feelings |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 3:21:40 PM
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Hi Maheswari
It's okay to have a nap after DM in my opinion. A "nap" is different then going to sleep for the night. Personally, I have a short nap (20-30 minutes) after every session.... *then* I go out and engage in regular activity. I personally need a fairly decent rest period in order to let all the purification that happens during practice times dissolve, so a longer rest period is required. At least right now. The length of rest time needed will go through phases just like meditation experiences though so sometimes we need more time, sometimes we need less. Does that make sense?
Love!
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 6:36:42 PM
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My understanding is right after meditation we should rest but not sleep for a while before getting up. And return to regular activity before going to bed for the night.
I think the stiff and needing a nap feeling is from not resting a little after meditation. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 11 2011 6:38:05 PM |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 9:10:21 PM
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Wow. Thanks for continuing to put your time and thought into this! I am so blessed to have found all of you.
And thanks for the reminder about not getting caught up in the scenery. My bad!! It is wonderful scenery right now. But the scenery isn't why I meditate.
The sleep issue is a really tricky one. Why is it important not to sleep a sound sleep right after meditation? I read in the first AYP book that it caused some people nightmares. But if it's not having that effect, is it still bad for that individual? The reason I ask is that I don't know if deep, prolonged sleep after meditation can be avoided in his case. When at the station, the firefighters generally head to the dorms at around 10:00 PM. That's when everyone understands that you no longer want to be social, and it's the best time to do something like meditation. Then you might get 2 to 6 hours of bad sleep or no sleep at all, depending on the number of calls and how they're stacked up. I've done it. The south suburbs burn. We can literally go fight a fire in one town, and an hour after we get back and have showered and just climbed into bed, we get called to a fire in another town, and then we get a call for a full arrest (heart attack) when we return. Before you know it, it's dawn and time to start the next day. Do that for 48 hours, and the urge to sleep becomes overwhelming when you're still for a moment or two. And he's sitting on a nice, comfy bed, with lots of pillows propping him up and saying "iyam" over and over again. Zonk. Gone to dreamland.
I guess I'm wondering if meditating and then going to sleep for several hours is worse than not meditating. I think maybe not, since we're seeing positive effects. It's just a harder row to hoe. What do you think?
Much love to you all.
--Liz
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 10:26:27 PM
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Hi Liz:
There is nothing wrong with taking a nap right after meditation, as and when needed. Obviously, your husband needs it.
The general guideline is to meditate before the morning and evening meals. Meditating right before bedtime can lead to restlessness at night due to the energizing effects of meditation, so that caution is given. In most cases, it is better to have some activity in the evening to stabilize the effects of our meditation. But this is not an absolute. Not everyone's sleep is affected that way. And neither does everyone have the same options for scheduling of meditation, or sleep for that matter.
Each will find their own schedule of meditation and sleeping according to their needs. If the work schedule is changing regularly, so too will the schedule of meditation be changing. We do the best we can, and take note of the effects of our meditation in daily activity. If meditation is making our sleep restless, we will know it, and can make an adjustment in the schedule. Over time, it will all even out. Consistent daily meditation will have a stabilizing effect over time, bringing more abiding inner silence into our life. Maintaining a practice over the long term is the key in this, however the schedule may be handled day to day, and week to week. To accomplish this, having a comfortable schedule is important, as is a comfortable seat. Personal choices in these matters are what will lead to successful long term practice.
Sleep has the highest priority. Without sleep, we will not be very effective at anything, including meditation. So sleep that comes naturally during meditation, or right after is a good thing. Meditation will give us what we need. As Carson has covered above, the procedure of meditation can accommodate that. A meditation that includes sleep is as successful as one that is filled with bliss consciousness. Both will be equal in making daily life gradually better, and that is what counts.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 10:28:57 PM
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I have even been visiting or travelling, and meditated for 10 minutes in the bathroom! Nobody suspects anything. Then another 10 minutes a few hours later.
Oops, Yogani's post wasn't there when I wrote this. I will remove the part except what has been commented on, because his answer is better. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 12 2011 07:29:13 AM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2011 : 04:24:26 AM
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carson ...it makes sense...each one according to his case
etherfish " meditated for 10 minutes in the bathroom! "...LOL...why not ...meditative attitude is supposed to stay all day long
Love to all |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2011 : 08:24:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I have even been visiting or travelling, and meditated for 10 minutes in the bathroom! Nobody suspects anything. Then another 10 minutes a few hours later.
Hi Ether:
Very creative. Whatever works to keep the program going.
For those with sometimes overbearing work schedules, the following lesson on fitting practices into a busy schedule may be helpful: http://www.aypsite.org/209.html
It is all about "honoring the habit," even in small ways if that is all our schedule will permit at times. Ether's bathroom strategy is a good example.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2011 : 8:48:01 PM
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Hi Liz and all,
There's allways a pillow fight afterwards.....if all else fails.......kkkkkk
All the Best...
P.S Just bear in mind everyone seems to and will respond differently....you may find DM energising, he may find it sleep-inducing at any given point in your meditation history....Also it's a good thing to encourage friends or family though they may not always be so receptive...it is up to them if they really have any interest.Sounds like your husband IS receptive, so welll done!!!.... I would suggest he reduces his DM practice time and see if that helps..... |
Edited by - Akasha on May 15 2011 11:33:26 PM |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2011 : 08:35:07 AM
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| Haha! Yeah, pillow fights are great fun! The meditation is going really well for both of us now. Thanks for all your interest and your comments! They really helped. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2011 : 5:08:37 PM
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Hi Liz,
It maybe a bit premature to give a proper evaulation as to whether DM is working for him or not but sounds like he is keen to give it a fair trial if he's witnessed benefits in yourself and he wants them himself.It's possible your experience and his are somewhat different...perhaps even poles apart although only you and him would know that,make that evaluation, if that happens to be the case here...I found it very energising when i began. He may not.Sleep-inducing is probably not an ideal outcome but it can be diifcult to predict the long-term effects in advance other than working with the knoweldge or paradigm that we are advancing purification.
With pranayama it generally has that role of having a balancing as well as re-charging effect....on internal energies. Based on this rationale he could consider ,although this is optional, a couple of minutes of full yogic breathing as it's often called beforehand. All that is, is very simple---the abdomen expands gently (as a result of the movement or contraction of the diapraghm, the muscle that thereby allows both lungs to expand) or so we observe,eyes closed, then the chest/ribcage exapnds and thirdly then the clavicle/collar-bone,the top most bit perhaps is observed to rise ever so slightly if the breath is sufficiently deep and full and then on exhalation this all occurs in reverse.One can therefore think of it in 3 stages or parts.It's done in Spinal breathing but without moving the attention,just taking deep full slow breaths through the nose.He may focus on learning to move the breath and observing those actions or even focus at the flow of the breath at the nose or nostrils(or bridge of the nose.)These are merely other breath-based meditation options then he can do prior to his DM session.Then he can try following this up with a relatively short DM session and see if that helps.Then you/he can if one likes re-evaluate his practice routine.Inhalation and exhalation can be both made of equal duration, certainly to begin with.
Also another thing if he has issues getting a comfortable seat, he may consider either doing it in a chair,spine neutral position, or if he is determined to sit cross-legged then doing it on a mattress will help cushion his ankles and feet etc.If one is confortable then one can let go.Then you just intone the mantra at whatever level of fuzziness or clairty (without any hint of forcing) you find yourself at. No effort is required.... other than surrender which is a state of effortlessness or non-doing.
I'm glad things are working out for both of you.
Lots of Love
Akasha
P.S Anything you may be unsure about feel free to enquire or ask for support with.
Another breath-based meditational favourite of mine is nadi shodhana("nerve purification" in sanskrit)which you can find as an addendum to the spinal breathing lesson:- http://www.aypsite.org/41.html.Otherwise i would follow the no-nonsense & simple approach laid out and beautifully explained by Yogani in the Lessons.Simplicity in our practice routine is the key to self-pacing and guaging predictable cause & effects. |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2011 : 1:13:59 PM
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| Hi Lizzy. Maybe ur hubby thinks meditation is for *****s and sissys? Some of us dyed in the wool, idiot macho guys used to think along those lines. I hope he's not like I was, but just incase tell him Bruce Lee and M. Ali and Rocky Marciano all meditated. Who knows, maybe they did... Most likely though, your fella is a warm, kind, loving person and it's just not his time yet. No wine before its time. I've tried med for over 25 years on and off and it was only in finding Y's site here that I felt any real encouragement. Maybe he should read a little? Or send an e to Y? Y's got the good stuff. American Buddha, no less... If I offend anyone in my gruff writings, please, please, please forgive me. I took a lot of shots to the head. |
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Pillow Talk
