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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 18 2011 : 1:57:54 PM
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I'm reading Daniel Ingram's Spiritual Classic http://www.interactivebuddha.com/Ma...0Version.pdf and trying to relate our AYP practices to the standard buddhist practices
These are the three main practices from the book:
Morality Training
Concentration Practice
Insight Meditation Practice
Here's how I relate them to AYP
Morality = Self-Inquiry
Concentration = AYP Deep Meditation
Insight = ??
I havent found a counterpart for Insight meditation in AYP. As per buddhists, it is their main practice and the one that leads to profound revelations, progress & ultimately enlightenment
What are your thoughts on this and how do you compare these two systems
- Near |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2011 : 2:16:38 PM
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For people not familiar with Buddhist practices and terms, here are the explanations
Morality: The goal is to act, speak and think in ways that are conducive to the welfare of yourself and others.
Concentration: Concentration or depths of meditation, is to focus on very specific and limited objects of meditation (breath, candle light etc..) and thus attain to specific altered states of consciousness.
Insight Meditation: The scope of the third training, that of insight or wisdom, is to observe the bare individual sensations, perceive the Three Characteristics (impermanence, suffering, no-self) of them, and thus attain to profound insights into the nature of reality and thus realize stages of enlightenment. |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2011 : 3:20:31 PM
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| In my opinion, any spiritual system if followed honestly should lead to the kind of insights that you attribute to Buddhist Insight Meditation. Insights into the nature of impermanence, emptiness, suffering etc are really mainstays of expanding consciousness. AYP Deep Meditation and spinal breathing as well as many, many other systems and techniques are capable of bringing someone to these realizations. As for comparing Buddhism and AYP, I don't think it is a very fruitful thing to do. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2011 : 5:18:22 PM
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Hi Nearoanoke,
Morality (Sila in Buddhism) corresponds with the Yamas and Niyamas in AYP. Buddhist concentration practice corresponds with meditation (Dhyana and Samadhi), and Buddhist insight inquiry (vipassana), corresponds with Self-inquiry in AYP.
The tie-in isn't direct, but it is surprisingly close, because both AYP and Buddhism have the same roots.
Christi |
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John C
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2011 : 09:29:24 AM
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Hey Christi,
Could you remind me again what are Buddhist emptiness and no self from your own, and/or from the perspective of these lessons of Yogani's called AYP?
Thanks,
J |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2011 : 4:36:58 PM
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Hi John,
Sure thing...
I discussed emptiness in this post:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=9179#79297
You could... say that emptiness is the perception that all conditioned phenomena do not possess inherent independent existence, but instead are interdependent. This means that nothing begins or ends, and there is no point at which one thing stops and another begins. It is true of objects, thoughts, feelings and consciousness itself. It is both a tool for moving beyond mental perception, and an aspect of the direct perception of reality.
As for no self (anatta) this is the practice of perceiving, and the direct realization that nothing within phenominal existence is who or what you really are. It isn't the whole journey of enlightenment, but a stage on the path. Beyond the realization of no-self (anatta) is the realization of the Self (atman) as all (Brahman) which is Yoga. Then it is seen that emptiness (sunyata) is Brahman, and Brahman is all, which is liberation (moksha).
Yogani doesn't discuss Buddhist concepts much in the main lessons, but there are some main lessons on the realization of the Self as the true nature of reality.
See here:
http://www.aypsite.org/327.html
Christi
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2011 : 11:37:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Nearoanoke,
Morality (Sila in Buddhism) corresponds with the Yamas and Niyamas in AYP. Buddhist concentration practice corresponds with meditation (Dhyana and Samadhi), and Buddhist insight inquiry (vipassana), corresponds with Self-inquiry in AYP.
The tie-in isn't direct, but it is surprisingly close, because both AYP and Buddhism have the same roots.
Christi
Hi Christi,
Yes Morality seems to be Yama Niyamas as it involves conduct and behavior.
Though there is no direct tie-up between practices, here is how I see it; AYPs "Inner Silence" seems to correspond with Buddhist "Insight". In his book Ingram warns that Concentration Practices by themselves are not much useful as other than leading to temporary highs, they dont produce enlightenment.
It is the Insight Meditation, that provides profound Insights and thus leads to permanent changes and enlightenment. Also they have their own Self-Inquiry and he says it wont be much effective unless you have basic "Insight" developed. This rhymes pretty closely with AYP saying Self-Inquiry not being effective without some inner silence.
I see that AYP Deep Meditation covers some part of both the Concentration as well as Insight Practices. Samyama and additional practices probably make up for the remaining part.
It is noteworthy though that the amount of effort needed for AYP is much less, only twice a day while Buddhist methods involve hours of practice. Either AYP must be missing something or Buddhism needs some fine tuning.
- Near |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2011 : 7:00:06 PM
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Hi Near,
Buddhism is evolving all the time, and has been doing so since the Buddha was alive (and possibly before). The latest versions of Buddhism have integrated mantras, pranayama, visualizations and even tantric sex. So the fine tuning has been going on for a while.
I'm not familiar with Daniel Ingram, but it sounds like he bases his teachings on Theravada Buddhism, which is the oldest form of Buddhism, going right back to the time of the Buddha. And yes it does take more time, but that is not necessarily a downside. The practices are very beautiful, and becoming enlightened isn't a race. If it is, it's not enlightenment. If I had to choose between AYP and Theravadin Buddhist practices, it would be a difficult choice. Luckily I don't have to choose as I practice both.
Christi |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2011 : 3:56:00 PM
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It is interesting to know that you do both practices.
Would you like to share the Buddhist side of practices that you do?
Also I'm specifically interested if I can add some part of the the Insight Meditation side of the Buddhist practices along with AYP. What would you recommend?
- Near |
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deepbluehum
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2011 : 5:20:25 PM
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quote:
Beyond the realization of no-self (anatta) is the realization of the Self (atman) as all (Brahman) which is Yoga. Then it is seen that emptiness (sunyata) is Brahman, and Brahman is all, which is liberation
Theravada doesn't give positive explanations of Self.
In Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra "Buddha-Nature" is described as Pure, Self, Bliss and Permanent.
The method to attain this experience is described very well in Prajnaparamita Spoken by Manjusri as awareness having no location, dependency or fixity.
Also the Surangama Sutra very clearly illustrates the method with regard to the six sense doors as one can see, but cannot see seeing. Not seeing the sight faculty is emptiness of the sight faculty.
In daily life you just remain mindful of this reality and as everything happens naturally, you refrain from "the two thoughts," good/bad, high/low, etc. In Buddhism nonduality doesn't mean all is oneness. It means not grasping at truth. The mind never changes. |
Edited by - deepbluehum on Mar 25 2011 5:46:45 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2011 : 6:08:07 PM
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Hi Deepbluehum,
quote:
quote:Beyond the realization of no-self (anatta) is the realization of the Self (atman) as all (Brahman) which is Yoga. Then it is seen that emptiness (sunyata) is Brahman, and Brahman is all, which is liberation
Theravada doesn't give positive explanations of Self.
In Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra "Buddha-Nature" is described as Pure, Self, Bliss and Permanent.
Yes, the "Pure, Self, Bliss and Permanent" is the Self (Atman) which is Brahman, which is liberation.
Welcome to the forum. 
Christi |
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deepbluehum
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2011 : 7:38:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Yes, the "Pure, Self, Bliss and Permanent" is the Self (Atman) which is Brahman, which is liberation.
Welcome to the forum.
Christi
Thank you for the warm welcome. Yes. Atman is the word used in the Mahayana Tathagatagarbha Sutras. Brahman and Atman are synonymous I would think.
What's important to Buddhism is that one is not referencing a personal soul, an external creator god, or some feeling for salvation. A Buddhist relies on the reality of nature contained in the mind. The "Bliss" described in the buddha-nature sutras is talking about the bliss of freedom from suffering and not enduring the pain of one's confused projections, rather than pleasure.
Also for Mahayana it is important not to get stuck unwittingly in one of the three realms (desire, form or formless realms) or in the peace of nirvana. The method of nonabiding becomes very useful. It is a mindfulness technique special to Mahayana, received from the teacher. |
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AYP vs Buddhism
