|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 12 2011 : 1:36:00 PM
|
Namaste Friends 
I wanted to open a discussion in hopes of hearing about other's experiences in regards to a specific aspect of the unfolding that I am noticing here.
What I have been noticing is that there is a shifting from experiencing Life on a strictly gross level to an experiencing of Life on increasingly subtle levels. This is happening in many ways and in many aspects of the moment to moment experience here. I'll try to explain.
One way I have been noticing my daily experience shifting from gross to subtle is in regards to the senses. For example, eyesight. For most of my life I have been experiencing my eyesight on a strictly gross physical level. But as the nervous system is purified more and more it seems that my eyesight has begun to pick things up on increasingly subtle levels. I don't know if I have seen all the levels yet (or if I ever will), but I have noticed a few specific levels of sight that seem to span the spectrum from gross to subtle. For example... I can see things on a physical level. Forms consisting of solid matter in 3D. Everyone who is not blind I assume sees this level for the majority of their waking existence. I have also noticed that it is possible to "see" an energetic level. This level is more subtle then the physical level and this is not something I have always been able to see, nor am I always able to see it now. But at times, I seem to be able to see "energy patterns" and "energy movements" around and in me. On an even more subtle level then the "energy level" I have noticed that there is a (for lack of a better term) an "astral dimension" that is simultaneously existent with the gross physical level. I have recently begun to be able to "see" this level at times even while simultaneously seeing the physical level. It's almost like having a "vision" whilst maintaining normal 3 dimensional sight. For example I recently went through a period of seeing this "astral dimension" but was still able to drive my car with ease at the same time. I could still see my 3D environment just fine and was able to stay focused enough on this level to be able to safely operate my car, but at the same time, I was seeing (with my mind's eye?) a subtler dimension of existence that I am not always perceiving. In this other "dimension" there were beings, and happenings, and an environment, but it wasn't directly interacting with the gross physical beings, happenings and environment. For lack of a better way of saying it, there were two different dimensions that I was able to perceive *at the same time* and they seemed to "overlay" each other in a magnificent and glorious way (which I am currently unable to describe with words).
As I pondered this newfound ability to "see" subtler dimensions of existence I realized that EVERYTHING is like this, not just sight. All the senses are able to be perceived on multiple levels and there are many other aspects that this "gross ----> subtle" paradigm applies to. Like "Karma" for instance. There appears to me, to be different "levels" of Karma.... "gross Karma" and an entire spectrum of increasingly "subtle Karma".
I have to go to work now and can't continue to write at this moment, but I just wanted to get this onto paper as I had the inspiration to put this out there. I will try to elaborate more in the near future as this continues to unfold. If any of you would like to share your experiences with the "Gross to Subtle Paradigm" I would love to hear about it.
Love!
 |
|
|
sagebrush
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2011 : 3:48:59 PM
|
Thank you for posting a photo on your profile. It helps me see that there are people here, as strange as that may sound. I think I saw too a photo of Shanti....I always have thought that most all posts come from one person.
Anyway, I guess on my own level I can understand what you are describing but in my own experience.
Just the other day I was at my dads house. He is with a terminal illness and his wife hates doing ANY house work. They do not have a disposal and when I went there the kitchen was a mess. So I had to scrape food out of bowl and plates into the yard in the back. We have been having alot of rain the last few days and the areas around the city are flooding...as in the flood walls are now closed.(live by the ohio river)
Anyway, as I scrape the food onto the earth I literally can hear the ground drinking in the wet from all the rain. It is a live noise. It is very quiet, but nonetheless, it sounds like the Earth is drinking.
Also when in the past I have been hiking which brings out alot of peace and joy...I may have been on a precipice looking out to a vista and watching the wind talk with the trees. For me there is no ending magnificience with nature and being in tune with that.
Does that make sense?
You once posted somewhere before that you would freak out your friends by stating things about them that noone else would/could possibly know....do you mean more that direction?
Good day! |
 |
|
|
sagebrush
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2011 : 3:49:52 PM
|
| oh, and the photo of Etherfish, gee I have spent years thinking you were someone else. |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2011 : 4:15:48 PM
|
 thanks; me too. |
|
|
|
Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2011 : 4:34:15 PM
|
Carson what you say about the layers and their subtlety sounds very understandable, making sense in my ears. Also the strength, grossness or subtlety of karma makes for me much sense (I've never thought about it that way at least with relating to the layers of the environment and experience). But... makes me think about how samyama relates, because, maybe it's the same- in samyama we pick up a very very subtle thought or feeling, I am thinking, maybe in samyama we pick up a very very subtle desire (karma) but it is different from doing it unconsciously, we do it right after the silence is strong, so this way we pick up a certain desire we, our mind, or the collective has, and make it conscious, thus purifying so much from our and the collective mind , ideas and feelings related to this thought.
hmmmmmm..... I am thinking out loud in writing.
Thanks |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2011 : 3:15:09 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I have also noticed that it is possible to "see" an energetic level. This level is more subtle then the physical level and this is not something I have always been able to see, nor am I always able to see it now.
Somehow reminded me of this:
What is enlightenment?
If we look at what the Buddha discovered about mind 2550 years ago, we find that he realized that mind is clear light. The mind hasn't been born, and it cannot die. Even though bodies, thoughts and feelings appear, change and disappear again, mind itself, being open clear limitless space, can in no way be hurt or harmed. So when the Buddha obtained liberation, he found that he was not the target anymore. He wasn't that body which could be in trouble, nor was he those thoughts and feelings which could change and disappear - instead he was radiant awareness. This led to enlightenment, the realization that there is no separation between space and energy at any time or place. He knew and was aware of all things. He felt the great joy and expressed the great love which is the meaning of all things; which makes every atom stick together and vibrate and which makes all things happen in the world.
http://www.diamondway-buddhism.org/...&t=faq_b.htm
|
|
|
|
jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2011 : 3:30:39 PM
|
Carson,
The "astral" vision sounds very cool. I have found a similiar gross to subtle concept with energy and awareness. I used to think that the energy followed awareness/attention. In your terms, it now feels more like that energy is a "gross" level of consciousness.
Your point on Karma is interesting. What do you sense about the different levels? How do you "notice" the different levels? |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2011 : 1:46:24 PM
|
Hi Everyone and thanks for the comments
@Sage: Yes, this "Subtle to Gross" paradigm extends to the sense of hearing as well. I would say that what we hear with our physical ears is "gross sound" and that the cosmic hum, the sound of "Aum" is the other end of the spectrum, the "subtle sound." And I think that as the perception becomes more and more subtle, that the senses begin to blend together into one "unified sense".... this is how we are able to begin to "see" (percieve) sounds and "feel" (percieve) sights etc.
With regards to the "freaking my friends out by telling them I knew things I couldn't know about them"... this is not what I am talking about here. When I was talking about that in another thread I was explaining that I used to take Ketamine (a drug, a dissociative anaesthetic that is used for surgery on children and animals), dissociate from my body, and do "remote veiwing" on friends and tell them what I saw them doing late at night.... which was incredibly intrusive of me in hindsight. Those times were drug induced.... what is happening now is not.
@Yonatan: Yes, I think we are on the same page.
@Manigma: Thanks for sharing that. Yes, it all seems to be connected... space, energy, form, consciousness, etc etc etc. But the WAY it is all connected never ceases to amaze me. Having glimpses into the "behind the scenes" view is incredibly "clarity inducing." It is very easy to fall prey to concepts about "Oneness/Unity/etc" and to think that the words that describe these concepts are "It." This doesn't seem to be so. Actually "seeing/experiencing" the way things are *really* connected put all these words about "It" to shame. It's actually caused me to want to stop talking all together. Sometimes I watch myself speaking all these words and I feel this intense draw to smack myself into Silence. The words are definitely the "gross" form of communication. "Real" communication doesn't require words at all.
@Jeff: Yes.... to me, it appears that energy is more "gross" then consciousness. It appears that energy is merely the "animation force" (for lack of a better term) of "clarity." Clarity, or pure awareness or whatever term one wants to apply to the experience of "This" is more "subtle" then the energy which turns that clarity into increasingly gross "form."
About karma......it appears to me that karma is like everything else, there are more gross forms of karma, and there are more subtle forms of karma. The gross end of the spectrum would be physical obstructions, which work into energetic obstructions and continue on into "perception obstructions." Form--->energy--->space/clarity/awareness--->energy--->form. It appears to me that each layer of karma affects every other level, and I don't think it only goes one way.... meaning, if there is a karmic obstruction in the "perception/clarity" that that will create a manifestation of that in the form... but it also appears to go the other way as well.... if there is a physical obstruction, this also affects the ability to have clarity because there is a corrosponding effect on the more subtle levels. This is all based on my *incredibly limited* amount of clarity though. I really don't know what I am talking about at all. 
Love!
|
|
|
|
jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2011 : 2:10:22 PM
|
Carson,
Does Karma feel like it spans into clarity/awareness? Or, is it more like a transcendent Ego; surrender and it was never really there?
Smiles! |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2011 : 2:22:23 PM
|
Hi Jeff
It is very hard for me to put words to this and I can't know what Life is like for anyone else, so I am only speaking from my own personal perspective here, so please keep that in mind.
It appears to me, that "Source" could be synonymous with "Clarity". But there always seems to be a deepening into more and more clarity. This, to me, indicates that the "deepening" is a direct result of releasing subtler and subtler "perception karmas".... karma that blocks the pure view. That said, as above so below, so if there is a "perception karma" then there will be a gross manifestation of that as well. I think that karma is real until it isn't anymore. I know that I have obstructions that block the "pristine clarity" still, and nothing I do to try to convince myself that karma is all in my imagination seems to bring me to that place/space of clarity. So, for me, karma is still real. Perhaps one day it will not be, but for me, in this moment, that is pure speculation.
Love!
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
The Gross to Subtle Paradigm
