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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 7:50:12 PM
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[this topic was split from the 'coffee' discussion]
Hi Jim:
Whats your idea of moderation?
Red or White?
I really enjoy your post.
Guy
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Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 06 2007 8:57:42 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 9:46:04 PM
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Red's healthier (more tannin, more cholesterol effect), but there's all sorts of scientific evidence that a glass or three of wine per day is salubrious for your health. You won't find too many doctors to disagree with that.
I do not like to get "buzzed" though. It feels like the "mud" i'm always talking about trying to clear off my windows. But a glass downed slowly hardly has any effect, at least on me. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2006 : 09:38:18 AM
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My understanding is that there's a lot of stuff in red wine that is good for you. I don't know of any evidence that the alcohol in it is good for you, and I'd expect that it is not, but in moderation, the goodness added from the good stuff probably exceeds the negative effects of the alcohol.
If you can get red wine with the alcohol removed, it would probably be great.
If I take even a small amount of alcohol, I feel a lesser 'glow' the next day.
-D |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2006 : 3:06:20 PM
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My brother-in-law's doctor prescribed a glass of red wine every day to help with his blood pressure. he had a pretty big one every day for over a year.
Then one day when trying to figure out how to help his joint pain (gout caused by lactic acid in the joints), they decided to try giving up the wine. His joint pain got a lot better! He said he's more clear headed too. He does martial arts in his spare time. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 09 2006 3:07:47 PM |
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snake
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2006 : 8:51:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
I don't know of any evidence that the alcohol in it is good for you, and I'd expect that it is not
No time to dig up sources, but latest evidence leads to strong recco from mainstream medicine that a drink or two per day is good for you (so long as you're not an alcoholic, of course). The good stuff in wine is a separate issue. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2006 : 09:31:01 AM
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>> No time to dig up sources, but latest evidence leads to strong recco from mainstream medicine that a drink or two per day is good for you (so long as you're not an alcoholic, of course). The good stuff in wine is a separate issue.
There was news some years ago that people who drink a little have healthier hearts on average than non-drinkers. Some considered this evidence that drinking a little is good for you, but it was soon realized that that conclusion is not actually supported by that evidence.
Correlation is not necessarily causation.
The problem is that the populations are extremely self-selecting as they say; to simplify it, relaxed Type B personalities are more inclined to enjoy a good drink than the overdriven Type A personalities. The health differences may be just due to overall lifestyle and personality rather than to the consumption of alcohol.
The drinking a little and being healthier may be caused by the same thing (relaxed personality factors), rather than one caused by the other.
As far as I know, there is no evidence that actually consuming alcohol is good for you. There could be new news on this for all I know, and I would be happy to hear about it if there is.
Then there is the whole lifestyle of the moderate social drinker as a possible cause in itself. Even if the little alcohol is not good for you in itself, it's entirely possible that the positive effect of the lifestyle of moderate social drinking exceeds some negative effect of the alcohol for many people. One thing is certain, mediterranean people as a group have notably healthy hearts.
So I suppose what I am saying is that if one aspect of something like alcohol is negative, that does not mean that a person should give it up, because it may have many positive aspects for that person; the whole picture of their life should be taken into account when judging something like that.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 10 2006 12:13:47 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2006 : 12:44:48 PM
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| David, you're setting up a straw man in assuming that's the study I'm refering to. I'm sorry I don't have sources at hand, or time to dive for them, but please believe me that recent (last two years) and persuasive study has many doctors recommending (well, at least approving) 1-2 drinks per day to non-alcoholics. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2006 : 1:01:49 PM
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>> David, you're setting up a straw man in assuming that's the study I'm refering to.
Jim, if you read what I said more carefully it will be clear that I did no such thing.  I acknowledged explicitly that I could be operating from outdated studies.
I checked out this site:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutriti...alcohol.html
They acknowledge it is unproven but are very strongly convinced that the relationship is indeed causal.
Here is some interesting stuff:
Balancing Act
Given the complexity of alcohol's effects on the body and the complexity of the people who drink it, blanket recommendations about alcohol are out of the question. Because each of us has unique personal and family histories, alcohol offers each person a different spectrum of benefits and risks. Whether or not to drink alcohol, especially for "medicinal purposes," requires careful balancing of these benefits and risks. Your health-care provider should be able to help you do this.
Shifting Benefits and Risks
The benefits and risks of moderate drinking change over a lifetime. In general, risks exceed benefits until middle age, when cardiovascular disease begins to account for increasingly large share of the burden of disease and death.
For a pregnant woman and her unborn child, a recovering alcoholic, a person with liver disease, and people taking one or more medications that interact with alcohol, moderate drinking offers little benefit and potential risks.
For a 30-year-old man, the increased risk of alcohol-related accidents outweighs the possible heart-related benefits of moderate alcohol consumption.
For a 60-year-old man, a drink a day may offer protection against heart disease that is likely to outweigh potential harm (assuming he isn't prone to alcoholism).
For a 60-year-old woman, the benefit/risk calculations are trickier. More than ten times as many women die each year from heart disease than breast cancer - more than 500,000 women a year from cardiovascular disease compared with 41,000 a year from breast cancer. However, studies show that women are far more afraid of developing breast cancer than heart disease, something that must be factored into the equation.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 10 2006 1:37:28 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2006 : 1:34:16 PM
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| [ this topic was split from the 'coffee' discussion. ] |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2007 : 8:57:42 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Yendrek
Canada
1 Posts |
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wine / alcohol
