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 Tantra - A Holistic View of Spiritual Development
 Possible to learn water vajroli without catheter?
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tamasaburo

USA
136 Posts

Posted - May 08 2010 :  12:19:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
So I know Yogani's not a huge fan of mechanical vajroli and I'm also pretty reluctant to go so far as to actually use a catheter. However, I've noticed recently with my jala neti that besides just cleaning out the nostrils and sinus area, it also really does give the sensitive inner tissues of the nose a kind of bracing stimulation, which I think is probably beneficial in awakening of further ecstatic conductivity.

This makes me wonder if maybe the mechanical vajroli of sucking water up into the bladder might not have a similar effect on the passages down there: stimulating them and helping me to feel them more clearly. But the thing is, I'm definitely pretty squeamish about the whole catheter thing and as Yogani and others have said, it's probably not worth risking hurting yourself for some small improvement in awareness that would come anyway.

This makes me think: might it not be possible to learn the water-sucking skill (just sterilized water--I'm not trying to go all hardcore with honey or whatever) without a catheter? Whatever happens with the assistance of the catheter it seems you could replicate with your own body, albeit requiring greater strength and skill (and I have read that people can eventually do away with the catheter).

To anyone who has mastered the skill of "catheter-less suction," what is happening physically? Is the suction primarily caused by some contraction or movement in the bladder or muscles at the base of the urethra? Or is it more about creating a strong vacuum effect with a powerful uddiyana? Some combination of the above? Any ideas on how this skill might be achieved without a catheter or is it just impossible? Thanks for any ideas or experiences.

Edited by - tamasaburo on May 08 2010 12:24:37 AM

Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - May 08 2010 :  03:45:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm pretty sure that you wpould need a catheter to learn this. Maybe after mastering it and stretching the urethra it might be possible to learn to go beyond needing a catheter but I wouldn't recommend any of it personally
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tamasaburo

USA
136 Posts

Posted - May 08 2010 :  11:01:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Victor

I'm pretty sure that you wpould need a catheter to learn this. Maybe after mastering it and stretching the urethra it might be possible to learn to go beyond needing a catheter but I wouldn't recommend any of it personally



So I recalled reading that you tried it, Victor, but I take it you didn't find it very helpful? Was it just too hard or risky feeling to get it in there? Did it just not seem to do anything useful? Were you able to suck up fluid with the aid of the catheter? Thanks.
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - May 08 2010 :  3:07:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I experimented with the catheter. I found it irritating, risky of infection and I really couldn't find any benefit. With practice the catheter can become tolerated but it just seems rather pointless after awhile. It is not necessary to learn to suck up fluids in order to develop sexual control and even if you were able to suck semen back in after losing it, the semen would just go to the bladder where it would be lost through urination. That said, perhaps I didn't go far enough to gain any benefits but in this case I would not advise it unless it was under the supervision of a teacher who had mastered this technique, found its benefits and was qualified to teach it safely. Neither Yogani nor I have that qualification, so I would stick with what is taught here or find a new teacher for this practice.
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tamasaburo

USA
136 Posts

Posted - May 09 2010 :  3:07:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not really interested so much in trying to suck semen back during an orgasm. I can already prevent it going out with blocking and holdback. I'm more interested in the idea that learning to suck with the urethra would enhance the sensitivity and awareness in that area and help speed the development of "natural vajroli," which, if I understand it correctly, involves a kind of natural sucking of seminal fluids from the prostate and seminal vesicles up into the bladder. It seems like whatever type of suction would be necessary to suck external fluids up into the bladder would be similar to the kind necessary to suck seminal fluids up--even those that have not even begun to escape the other way. Hence, it feels like skill in one could help speed up development of the other--though maybe not...

Or am I misinterpreting what Yogani describes as a "constant release of semen at the root"? Is not part of "natural vajroli" the development of a situation where suction of seminal fluid up into the bladder is going on nearly all the time?

Edited by - tamasaburo on May 09 2010 3:12:30 PM
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Nairson

India
1 Posts

Posted - Jan 19 2021 :  09:16:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Actually catheter desensitizes the verumonatanum which is a very sensitive part responsible in ejaculation.I read it in a book by James Mallinson.Also i was trying to understand whether vajroli really works because i thought semen would go back to urinary bladder and hence be useless but when i studied the urinary system actually it is possible for semen to back into testes because of the opening which if i remember correct is on urrethra.Also in the book James Mallinson said that the more the catheter is used the more it desensitizes verumonatnum and eventually it will completely make you unable to ejaculate.
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interpaul

USA
376 Posts

Posted - Jan 19 2021 :  1:09:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I am not familiar at all with this practice but it makes me wonder why one would want to go to these extreme measures. I assume the goal is preservation and cultivation of one's sexual essense for the purposes of transmuting these energies for spiritual growth. If your goals are for other reasons then disregard my comments, although I would be interested in what the goal is. My goal has been to cultivate these energies for spiritual growth. Having achieved natural vajroli it is clear to me this is an important practice to fuel this journey. I did not find the mechanical approaches helpful and worried they could cause some possible damage to the perineal tissues. As Yogani often says this is a marathon not a sprint so I would back off on trying to do heroic measures to preserve one's essence. Spinal breathing pranyama in sidhasana does build one's capacity for natural vajroli but it takes time. Even if it takes you a year or two what does that matter if you benefit from that for the rest of your life.
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