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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 02 2008 : 4:40:16 PM
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I am curious about how I am supposed to be viewing my Sushumna in Pranayama Practice. Up until recently I could not actually "see" the spinal nerve and was just imagining it to be there and tracing it up and down with the breath. Then a few days ago I had a pretty amazing experience and am now able to actually "see" my spinal nerve while tracing it. But when reviewing some of the lessons on Pranayama practice I noticed that Yogani says I should be on the INSIDE of the nerve, not on the outside like I have always been doing it. So in my last two or so practices, I have been trying to go inside of what I see now as a golden colored tube. (doesn't really explain it because language is so limited, sorry ) This is not going so well. I seem to have no point of reference inside the nerve and cannot seem to "match up" the timing of the breath being full and reaching the front of the forehead. Any suggestions? Is it ok to be tracing it on the outside? Thanks for your suggestions!
Namaste,
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 03 2008 11:09:36 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2008 : 7:04:42 PM
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Hi CarsonZi - please take this response as based upon my own experience, rather than anything officially AYP. I'm not sure what Yogani had in mind when he refers to being on the inside of the nerve.
When a person begins spinal breathing, it's common to experience the sushumna as a thin thread or cord. At this point, s-he is on the 'outside' of the thread, looking in. It starts as a visualization, as suggested in the lessons, but then over time and consistent practice, the visualization starts to be physically experienced. (Almost impossible to describe, so suffice it to say that when you feel it, you know it, and with regular practice you'll get it). (Maybe you already have). Once you 'feel' the thread, over the course of time it starts to expand, so that instead of a thin cord, it's now a hollow tube, maybe 1" in diameter. Then over more time, the tube is 12" in diameter, and so on. At some point it expands to such an extent that you experience being 'inside' the tube, or sushumna. It's literally impossible not to be, as it expands beyond the width of your body. Try to imagine standing in a hollow piece of tubing, 3 or 4' in diameter, and doing spinal breathing. That's the sensation.
So if your breathing is currently 'outside' the sushumna, it's probably because it hasn't started to expand yet. In time it will, and then you'll slowly make the transition (effortlessly) to being 'inside'. I agree that it's hard to synchronize the breath and the visualization of the nerve, and fwiw it took me about a year to get it right. There are many suggestions on how to do so, if you do a search on Spinal Breathing Pranayama. It seems to be one of the most difficult of the practices to get finely tuned, but once you do, it's extremely powerful. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2008 : 9:38:45 PM
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Hi Meg,
Great post, how if at all, has your tracing of the spinal nerve changed with the new expression of it? Do you still go with the feeling of where it is located in the body or do you trace the column or otherwise as you behold it?
It has occurred to me recently that it was the visualizing of the nerve and the physical awareness of its location in body when tracing it in the first place that made the experience evolve over time. So do we leave that procedure or modify it as it changes, tracing the column instead of our original visualization of the spinal nerve? I was recently planning to go back to the SBP book for reference on this question when I saw your post so am throwing it out there. |
Edited by - Anthem on Sep 02 2008 9:44:24 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2008 : 11:22:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
It has occurred to me recently that it was the visualizing of the nerve and the physical awareness of its location in body when tracing it in the first place that made the experience evolve over time. So do we leave that procedure or modify it as it changes, tracing the column instead of our original visualization of the spinal nerve?
Yes, I think it's right to modify. At least that's what I do. When sitting to do SBP, I begin by visualizing the string or tube. Sometimes that's all I get for the whole session, so I just trace the thin tube the whole time. Usually it expands to a wider tube, and I visualize/experience that, tracing the wider tube. When it expands to 12-15", I'm then on the 'inside' of it, as Carson talks about, and still tracing up and down, but the tracing is starting to feel a little pointless. Don't know how else to describe it. And then, on the rare occasion that the nerve expands beyond my skin and I have the sensation of being inside a huge drain pipe, it feels downright cartoonish to be doing SPB. Like I'm some ant sitting on the trunk of an elephant, doing SPB as if I've breathed the elephant into existence.  When of course the elephant existed the whole time. (That probably only makes sense to me...no matter). The point being that at some stage in the expansion, the breathing feels extraneous. Maybe a better comparison is when you're experiencing a particularly 'big' samadhi, and the mantra just naturally falls away, and you sit in awe and silence for a spell. Then, after who knows how long, you remember to pick up the mantra again, and so on. That's how it sometimes is with SPB - when the sushumna expands to a certain point, it just feels right to stop the deep breathing for a little while, then when I remember, I pick it up again. Doesn't happen very often though. Long answer to what I hope was your question.
Please note, reader! The above is my experience & opinion, and if it differs from that of AYP, I hope to be corrected. |
Edited by - Manipura on Sep 03 2008 01:30:31 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2008 : 08:47:42 AM
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| Well I had a look through the SBP book quickly and it says to favour the procedure of tracing the spinal nerve no matter the changing dynamics of it. In my case, I have been using the feel to trace the spinal nerve while visualizing the thread. I will continue with tracing the feel of the nerve and switch from visualizing the imaginary thread to the visual manifestation of it internally instead as this seems more realistic. Hopefully this is right and I will be corrected if I have it wrong. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2008 : 10:35:04 AM
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Hi Meg,
So if I am experiencing my Sushumna as a 2" (about) golden glowing tube I should still be on the "outside" of the nerve? I should wait until the tube expands to outside of my skin before tracing the "inside" of the nerve? I am able to go inside of the nerve already, (it's still a little clunky but I can get inside of it) but my problem with doing SBP this way is that I have no point of reference inside the nerve and cannot seem to find the forehead until well after I am full of breath or vice versa. So I guess I should stay on the outside for a while longer until the tube seems way bigger, correct?
Thanks for the input!
Namaste,
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 03 2008 11:09:09 AM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2008 : 12:05:31 PM
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Hi All:
Excellent discussion on a sometimes tricky subject, because the sushumna (spinal nerve) does expand over time, as many have noticed. Nevertheless, the practice remains essentially the same, anchored between root and brow, without excessive imagining in-between being necessary. We just easily favor the center path. As the core grows, we naturally go from being outside everything to being inside everything. That's why the subtitle of the AYP Spinal Breathing Pranayama book is: "Journey to Inner Space."
This might help:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=4292#36388
Carry on! 
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2008 : 1:41:01 PM
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Thanks for the input Yogani,
I think I have a grasp on this now, but would like clarification on one last thing please...
Since I now can "see" the Sushumna as a 2" golden tube, and CAN go inside of it, (to me the inside looks like outer space, which is why I think I seem to be having a difficult time getting enough of a bearing inside the tube to match up the breath to reaching the forehead and vice versa) should I stay on the inside, "tough it out" and consider this the clunky stage, or is this only going to slow down progress? Is it best to stay on the outside of the tube as it is easy to do that, or should I "push" myself to get through the clunky stage of staying on the inside of the nerve throughout the whole SBP process? Thanks for your input everyone and sorry if this seems like a trivial issue not worth discussing.
Namaste,
CarsonZi |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2008 : 2:01:52 PM
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Hi CarsonZi:
Not trivial at all.
Any extra effort of visualizing inside or outside will slow down the process. Just favor the easiest route in the center between root and brow. It is not we who decide what is outside and what is inside. It is the direct perception of the natural expansion of the sushumna that reveals it, as purification and opening advance due to our practices.
It is like AYP-style self-inquiry, where making the thing in our mind is non-relational, and becoming the thing itself is relational. The less forcing there is in any practice, the more relational (in stillness) and effective it will be. Those two words "easily favor" are the key. Add on "twice daily for the long term," and we cannot miss.
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2008 : 3:27:22 PM
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Thank you Yogani. I figured that would be the answer. Sometimes I feel silly posting here because as I am writing my question I am answering it as well too. But I still end up leaving the question up there for comments and suggestions even though I am pretty sure I already know the answer. I guess I need to TRUST my inner guru a little more, and stop feeling the need for external commendations. Thank you for responding.
Namaste,
CarsonZi |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2008 : 4:04:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Thank you Yogani. I figured that would be the answer. Sometimes I feel silly posting here because as I am writing my question I am answering it as well too. But I still end up leaving the question up there for comments and suggestions even though I am pretty sure I already know the answer. I guess I need to TRUST my inner guru a little more, and stop feeling the need for external commendations. Thank you for responding.
Namaste,
CarsonZi
Ah, but think of everyone else who is benefiting from your self-answering questions.
It is simple once we get how utterly straight-forward it is. But not so simple for those who are bogged down in mountains of imagery they feel obliged to maintain. It's not necessary!
This is the primary shortcoming in methods of spinal breathing that have been added on to, and added on to, and added on to some more. So much esoteric mumbo-jumbo. You can see the immovable mental structures cemented in the faces of people who practice this way. Argggh!
Not us. We just dance and sing a lot... 
The guru is in you.
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Juliet
43 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2008 : 07:37:06 AM
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Thanks, CarsonZi and Yogani for the good questions and reminders.
In fact I attended a lecture recently of someone who advocated an SBP system (root to crown) of ujayaii inhaling on the up breath while internally chanting the mantra "va" and visualizing a sky blue star. and ujayaii exhaling on the down breath with "shi" and visualizing a red star.
And in fact "immovable mental structures cemented in the face" is an excellent description of what I saw and sensed but could not precisely put my finger on.
Namaste! |
Edited by - Juliet on Sep 08 2008 07:45:39 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2008 : 8:02:55 PM
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AYP offers a freedom that I have experienced nowhere else. I'm sure other systems may exist that give this much freedom this quickly, but I have never experience them |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 08 2008 10:26:06 PM |
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schtroumpsolis
Canada
24 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2008 : 9:22:20 PM
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hi everyone
since i'm new to posting , all ask a silly question.
how do you know if it's 2" or 2' when your in the tube?nobody carry a ruler as far as i know! i always thought that when i go inside; the size i go in is relative to my counciousness. if i want to see blood vessel i dont go in with a level of conciousness to see constellations ,i reduce my awareness to bloodvessell size. if you go in with a microscopic awareness the tube will feel like 2 feet wide but in fact it's your awareness who shrunk to smaller proportions....just a thought!
happy to be here! f. |
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2008 : 11:44:40 PM
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Hi schtroumpsolis:
Wrong. I do carry a ruler and my measurement is generally 99% accurate. The reason why you don't have a ruler is because you're new to the forum. Next time put a ruler beside you when you practice and you'll see that as you go inside the spinal nerve you might get smaller but the ruler would still be the ruler. You can even measure yourself with the ruler to know how much smaller you've become. Just kidding. Thought you guys could probably use a joke as I couldn't do any other contribution to the topic. Moderators, feel free to delete this if you appropriate :-) |
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schtroumpsolis
Canada
24 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2008 : 3:34:57 PM
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hi emil
what's the point to have cultivate bliss if we can have a good sense of humor and laugh. |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 1:22:05 PM
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I would like to respond to this discussion too. In my experience, spinal breathing usually is a "felt" experience and has never been a visual experience. There is a pronounced experience of prana flowing from root up to the head on inhaling, and a flow of energy back down from head to root on exhalation. In fact, I have concluded that this flow occur continually with each breath, but we just don't usually notice it. Because, it is often present in awareness whether in formal meditation or just any old time. It is quite nice. It is associated with movement at the heart center which will throb, and crown activity also of a throbbing enjoyable sensation. It is enhanced by ancient mantra practices, and by pranayama.
Whether some people experience some vision of sushumna is beyond me to say, but definitely not my experience which is more a felt sensation. Just one yogi's experience to report, that's all. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 11:11:57 AM
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Hello X.J.
What you describe is how it started for me as well. But at a certain point it changed to me being able to "see" the sushumna in my mind's eye. What really helped me make the transition from just feeling it to actually seeing it, was visualizing myself while doing SBP as an all black outline. Basically visualize myself as having no substance just a shape of pure blackness. Then as I traced my breath up and down the "spine" of my silouette (sp?) I got a "flash" of the sushumna. It was a golden colored tube that I could actually SEE within my black, outlined body. It was at first just a visualization "technique" which really helped me to stay focussed on the sushumna, but soon it turned itself into a palpable part of me. I no longer have to use the "black body" technique, and can see my sushumna normally now. I don't know if anyone else has tried this, or if it would even work for someone else if they did, but it worked for me and really helped to push me right through that "clunky" stage we all have to go through when starting SBP. Hope this helps!
In Love,
CarsonZi |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 11:50:18 AM
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CarsonZi:
Interesting experience. My son says he actually sees his body in a cocoon of light and the spinal tube in it. I wonder if there would be any advantages to some members posting some images or drawings, to give us future visualizers some idea of what they see. My practice so far is more of a feeling of energy between top and bottom, also lighting bolts in the sky of mind.
Jo-Self
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 12:53:28 PM
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Hi Jo-Self, (nice name by the way I dig)
I personally think that the way it (seeing the sushumna) happens for one person, will be different for most practitioners (at least up to a certain level of yogic attainment anyways) and I doubt that anyone else's experiences would be able to truely influence another's. But having said that, I also think that we stumble across certain things or ideas or drawings or whatever for certain reasons. Fate as some would say. For me, I actually "came across" the idea of the "shadow-body" through another person on the forum's posting, but not stated as such. Their posting pushed me to think about things in a different way and the idea of trying the "shadow body" technique just popped into my head. And when I tried it in my next meditation it was like I had made a huge breakthrough. And it has stayed with me up to this day. BUT what created a breakthrough for me, I doubt will create a breakthrough for another. We all have to find our own paths, and breakthroughs will happen because of different things for different people. The idea of creating drawings is nice, but I think Alex Gray has done about as good of a job as anyone could ever hope to do there. And they may help one person and not help another. We all have to find our own way. Just have to be open to everything around us and let go and let God. Don't worry about it being an energy thing only either....I don't think visualizing the sushumna is a prerequisite for Self/God realization
In Love,
CarsonZi |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2008 : 6:22:56 PM
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CarsonZi:
Yup, I think you have a very correct view on this topic. Thanks. I will continue my current practice until something says otherwise.
---
jo-self
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A Question about Visualizing the Sushumna
