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yogibear
409 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 05 2007 : 12:00:33 PM
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quote:
Scott wrote:
There are different types of samadhi. I'm no expert in the classifications, but I do know one thing: I would never call focused attention on any part of the body samadhi. Maybe technically, it is considered a form of samadhi...it's just that I consider samadhi to be when the body and mind drop away. I would call focusing your attention on a part of the body or mind, meditation. That's kind of another topic, though.
My understanding of Samadhi at the present time is that when the aspirant achieves the state by one pointedness upon an object, the practitioner actually becomes the object concentrated on. IE, if the object is "God", the person becomes God. The object is experienced as if one were it. So by concentrating on a body part, the heart for example, one achieves a state of merging with the object (yoga) in such a way that it is experienced from the inside out so to speak, as if one were it. This is a type of Samadhi. It is colored by the object of concentration. It could be a mantra. The state of Samadhi is the combination of the final three steps of yoga.
Please correct me if I am wrong about this.
Thanks, yb. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2007 : 12:46:59 PM
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Yogibear,
I wish I had my favorite translation of the Yoga Sutras with me right now! It's by Alistair Shearer. There's a sanskrit word in the book for one-pointed focus on an object. Basically the difference is that this is a meditative absorption, and samadhi is a liberation from the mind. When the body and mind drop away completely from your attention, it seems huge, and to be honest it's kind of scary at first. It seems like your attention is shoved into the present moment. It's a strange experience, and it changes over time.
You know when you're meditating on something deeply, like the "I am" mantra, and you forget about it for some time then you catch yourself? Well samadhi occurs right before you catch yourself. But this meditative absorption is occurring before you forget about the mantra.
At least this is my experience. |
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avatar186
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2007 : 4:14:04 PM
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well i havnt cut much of any of the toung teather yet, and im not able to reach behind the uvula at all.
with cutting, the tendon just ebbs away? as it seems it just heals were i cut, but this may change in time im not sure yet. |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2007 : 6:09:00 PM
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The tongue becomes very strong and muscular over time. It becomes second nature to hold it upwards, like our other practices. The present conductivity will start to open up and flow through the throat region. Natural polarities in the body help to hold the tongue in place and pull it up. You can probably get an inch of growth by practicing this daily. One good thing about this is you get an idea of what your situation is, in regards to your frenum. You'll know with more certainty whether or not snipping well help or not.
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2007 : 8:05:45 PM
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Hi Scott,
Thanks for your reply. I know the term you are referring to as my teacher was always in this state: ekagrata.
I only know about samadhi from the book point of view and have never considered it as a fleeting thing myself but a progression from concentration thru meditation and into this merged state. It is a state of supreme alertness.
This is only from what I have read up to this point. I have only had this concept of it.
quote:
Scott wrote:
Basically the difference is that this is a meditative absorption, and samadhi is a liberation from the mind.
Maybe these lesser states of absorption would be considered lower types of samadhi with liberation being the ultimate one.
I don't know.
I come from the hard style school (to use a martial arts metaphor) of meditation which involves more determination, will and mental effort which builds to a state that becomes effortless in maintaining one-pointedness over time.
I consider schools like TM and AYP and Swami Rama to be more of a soft style, kind of taoist approach, not involving much effort or will but with more emphasis on gentle persuasion, returning to the mantra over and over again, which I like.
It seems like two different approaches.
Thanks again, yb. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2007 : 8:53:02 PM
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Yogibear,
quote:
Thanks for your reply. I know the term you are referring to as my teacher was always in this state: ekagrata.
You're welcome. If I remember correctly the term was "sampatti"...but I may be way off.
quote:
I only know about samadhi from the book point of view and have never considered it as a fleeting thing myself but a progression from concentration thru meditation and into this merged state. It is a state of supreme alertness.
This is only from what I have read up to this point. I have only had this concept of it.
So you are saying your definition of samadhi is enlightenment?
quote:
Maybe these lesser states of absorption would be considered lower types of samadhi with liberation being the ultimate one.
I don't know.
Maybe. I don't know either.
quote:
I come from the hard style school (to use a martial arts metaphor) of meditation which involves more determination, will and mental effort which builds to a state that becomes effortless in maintaining one-pointedness over time.
I consider schools like TM and AYP and Swami Rama to be more of a soft style, kind of taoist approach, not involving much effort or will but with more emphasis on gentle persuasion, returning to the mantra over and over again, which I like.
It seems like two different approaches.
What type of meditation do or did you use, which is considered hard style? I get what you're saying there, by the way.
Yes they are two very different approaches. I like the gentle persuasion, because the gentle aspect of it is what takes us deeper and further. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2007 : 04:19:01 AM
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Hi Avatar
quote:
with cutting, the tendon just ebbs away? as it seems it just heals were i cut, but this may change in time im not sure yet.
I think you have to be practicing kechari daily, whilst cutting the frenum. That way it will stretch as it heals. Otherwise it will just heal the same length as before you cut it. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2007 : 11:30:12 AM
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Hi Scott,
shamAdi ShaTka sampatti (a collective group of six behavior traits)
6. samAdhAna
samAdhAna means single pointed concentration.
I got these definitions from here:
http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourse...sampatti.htm
Samadhana is what I was referring to with ekagrata.
I don't really know about sampatti. From this site I am assuming that it is defined as behavior traits.
At present, samadhi without seed is my definition of enlightenment. This is my teacher's definition:
"The peak of all quests, the realm where nothing is desired as all is fulfilled, where no want is known-this is the state of Samadhi. Samadhi is a condition of eternal happiness. To the world, a yogi in Samadhi is like a person who is in a state of deep sleep. But for the yogi, he has gone beyond the state of notrmal consciousness into a state of superconsciousness where he is in eternal union with the Lord. The experience of Samadhi cannot be described in words. It is not this, and it is not that. It is a state of total consciousness expressed by profound silence."
quote:
Scott wrote:
What type of meditation do or did you use, which is considered hard style?
I practice simple concentration on myself in my heart in the morning and ayp in the evening. The effect on me is something like a cup of coffee in the am and a glass of wine in the pm.
I know that you ideally should stick with one but I like them both so much. The heart meditation is according to Haich and Yesudian and I consider it hard style as deliberate fixing and holding the mind on the object of concentration is emphasized.
Best, yb. |
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avatar186
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 3:48:16 PM
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they are the same approch seperate, will and determination is active, the gently coming back is passive. be activly passive, and passivly active.
as for samadhia, theirs a plant i once experimented with alot, it has a reverse tolerance effect, ie the more ya use it the less it takes. heard it was used to train shamans, whitch could be here say, and its legal for they dunno what it does in the body, ie dosnt use any normal drug receptorns. salvia divinourm. puts you very much so in the present moment. very much so, some people merg with in higher states experiance absorbtion in what their looking at, or thought for a short period. but! such plants are only an aid, they say not to have sex for 3 days at least after useing the plant.
ps. im liking the effect and way a razor blade works, very thin, fast healing, yet im gettin space very quickly without the nasty use of cuticle clippers.
once had a website with ahhh, more or less, the sutra steps for dummys, or made easy. concentrate on somthing, a ball, internal or external, mabey go from one to the others, out then in. once you have steady concentration on it, and you can do so for an hour no problem, then make it two object, and so on n so foreth. |
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avatar186
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 3:51:24 PM
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| oh yes one more thing, and ive pretty much givin up the use of plants. but pot and salvia together. ie since salvia has a quicker effect, and diminishes qucker when smoked. pot then salvia, smoked in that order, produces a very interesting effect. that was euphoric for a while, but then changed to a super concentrated, but super relaxed state of mind. at the time i though of it like, mm active and passive together. but such things can only but an aid or crutch till better ways are found. whitch they should be |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 03:51:17 AM
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quote:
Once our bhakti is hurling our tongue back into kechari, breaking the
hymen of the frenum does not have to be stressful and painful. It can
be very easy and gentle. Above all, it can and should be gradual.
http://www.aypsite.org/108.html
Does that apply to having the frenum removed surgically? If so, why? |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 09:36:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
quote:
Once our bhakti is hurling our tongue back into kechari, breaking the
hymen of the frenum does not have to be stressful and painful. It can
be very easy and gentle. Above all, it can and should be gradual.
http://www.aypsite.org/108.html
Does that apply to having the frenum removed surgically? If so, why?
Hi Chiron:
Yes, for those who may be inclined that way.
Why? Because how the frenum is attended to is a personal matter driven by bhakti (spiritual desire), and no reasonable safe option should be excluded.
The emphasis on the word "gradual" applies to self-snipping the frenum, taking small safe steps toward release. A surgical approach would obviously be a large step via appropriate medical procedure.
The "hymen" analogy also may point to the rare cases where opening a woman's hymen might need surgical assistance. In either the case of frenum or hymen, the need for surgical assistance may be rare, but the possibility of it exists nevertheless. It is a matter of the individual's anatomy, need (bhakti), and choice.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Echo
United Kingdom
48 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 12:05:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
quote:
Once our bhakti is hurling our tongue back into kechari, breaking the
hymen of the frenum does not have to be stressful and painful. It can
be very easy and gentle. Above all, it can and should be gradual.
http://www.aypsite.org/108.html
Does that apply to having the frenum removed surgically? If so, why?
Just as a matter of interest, I asked the guy that did my vasectomy if he could cut the frenum. He seemed fine about it and said it would be a 5min job and cost £150. I was wondering at the time if I could get 3 snips for the price of two!
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Szu
Poland
8 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2008 : 6:10:19 PM
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Hi i have three questions:
1.
In the Hathatatvakaumudi there is a sloka:
There is a trikuta (crown of the head) at the center of the eyebrows above the uvula, resembling the sprout of a gram. One should insert the tongue there with a concentrated mind and drink the flowing ambrosia. Thus one gets a divine body. 14:19
Where this point accurately is and on which step of ketchari this
sprout can be feeled ?
Some useful pictures to mark this point:
http://www.siddhasiddhanta.com/khechari.html
2.
Robert Svoboda mentions about 3
hidden chakras localized in the region of soft palate :
Lalana (talu, uvula chakra, talana, taluka, soma chakra, kala chakra)
Lalata (Fourth eye)
Golata (Guru chakra)
Anyone find any reliable informations in this topic,
with correct localizations of this points ?
I made some research in this theme, but find only some **** ;)
Sivananda wrote about lalana chakra but he described its palates with using
of letters from guru chakra, which is also 12-petaled.
Besides first and third chakra are descibed in the book: Susan G. Shumsky
Awaken Your Untapped Energy, contained also info about others ajna subcenters.
J.S. Harrigan in her book kundalini vidya mention about golhat, the cheek center that gives clairvoyance and the ability to red between the lines. Is golhat = golata ?
Another good source information can be found in the book Sundar Goswami
Layayoga: The Definitive Guide to the Chakras and Kundalini
Others sources ?
3.
What about using khechari mantra from yoga kundalin upanishad
Any success with this ?
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Sagittarius
14 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2008 : 07:48:01 AM
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| I havn't reached stage 2 of kechari, but with a help of fingers my tongue goes some distance behind soft palate. However if I close my mouth, the tongue immediately drops out of soft palate. How do I avoid this? |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2008 : 2:13:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Szu
Where this point accurately is and on which step of ketchari this sprout can be feeled ?
Others sources ?
Hi Szu:
The "point" you are referring to is called the "secret spot" in AYP. It is located on the back edge of the nasal septum just above where the hard and soft palates meet. It is accessed by the tongue by going behind the soft palate and pushing forward. The soft palate then opens downward like a trap door. The secret spot is first accessed in stage 2 kechari (tongue reaching the back edge of the septum). The secret spot may or may not be active (spiritually erogenous), depending on previous progress with a range of yoga practices leading to the rise of "ecstatic conductivity" in the neurobiology.
You did not mention the AYP lessons on kechari which are derived from several of the scriptures you metioned, and a lot of practical experience. The lessons can be found listed in the main website topic index. Lesson 108 is the main one, and there are quite a few others.
It has gone much further in these support forums, with many angles on practice and experience having been explored. Try searching the forums for words like "kechari," khechari," "snip," etc. You will find a lot.
Together, the AYP lessons and forums may comprise the most comprehensive open resource on kechari mudra in the world. If your research has turned up new angles, we'd love to have them posted here in the forums. The learning never ends.
The focus in AYP overall is less on theory and more on methods that produce the best results with steady application over time. So we discuss chakras and other internal machinery less than other approaches. We don't deny the inner mechanics. We just focus more on the main controls of the "car" and leave the inner machinery to do its thing "under the hood." In other words, we don't theorize much about kechari. We just do it as bhakti calls us in relation to the rest of our practices and the rise of ecstatic conductivity.
All the best!
The guru is in you. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2008 : 2:17:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sagittarius
I havn't reached stage 2 of kechari, but with a help of fingers my tongue goes some distance behind soft palate. However if I close my mouth, the tongue immediately drops out of soft palate. How do I avoid this?
Hi Sagittarius:
Try pushing the tongue forward on top of the soft palate. This will open the soft palate downward. Then you will be in stage 2, and closing the mouth while staying in that mode will be easier. It becomes very easy with some practice.
If it doesn't work, some additional stretching and/or trimming of the frenum under the tongue may be be necessary.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Sagittarius
14 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 3:04:00 PM
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| Now with a help of a finger I can make my tongue pass the soft palate and reach some hard tissue (hard palate?). And the tongue doesn't fall out when I close the mouth (had this problem before, and it was solved with more snipping). On which spot should I place the tip of my tongue there? I heard it's possible to reach back tips of nostrils from inside, however I don't yet see where they are. |
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Sagittarius
14 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 3:31:14 PM
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| Concerning the nostrils from inside - I can cover the right one, but can't do it with the left one. Need more stretched tongue and make some final snips. |
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Sagittarius
14 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 3:56:51 PM
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I can touch some holes when I put my tongue into kechari. But I am not sure whether these are nasal passages. Could it be trompas de Eustaquio? I put my tongue to rest between these holes onto some hard tissue (which is a little bit more deep than the holes).
Yogani: Thank you so much for advising cutticle snippers and some guy on the forum who advised to use a magnifying mirror! With a use of these tools I was able to reach current stage within 1 month and 20 days.
What exactly is stage 3? |
Edited by - Sagittarius on Mar 25 2008 4:44:43 PM |
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stillness
Canada
34 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2008 : 06:42:25 AM
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Hello kechari crowd,
I've been really fascinated by kechari mudra for several years now. Though my tongue is very long, the frenum prevents me from moving it very far back at all (I am not tongue tied though).
Something made me get out of bed a little while ago and search around here for info about kechari. I just read through this thread, really great info here.
I tried putting my tongue as far back as possible and watched in my body to see what would happen. Right away I noticed a very big effect on my heart chakra which felt really good. My tongue could only reach about as far as the limit of my hard palate.
Well I became inspired to snip my frenum. The other day I came across some cuticle clippers in my bathroom that I didn't even realize I had. Just now I boiled some water and sterilized them then proceeded to size up my frenum and choose the best place to snip. I will tell you, this took more courage than I thought it would. Eventually I got a good snip in and there was only a tiny bit of bleeding which stopped shortly afterwards. It stung for a while but now it feels fine.
I can reach my tongue farther back now, sort of on to the beginning of the soft palate (I think so anyways). The effect is amazing, I feel it mainly in my heart and a bit in my crown. The effect in my heart is really blissful.
I started a thread earlier postulating that kechari mudra could be done mentally with mind yoga exercises. So far my experience with what I think is kechari stage 1 has much different effects than the meditation I described in that thread. It is really wonderful and I really to hope to someday progress to stage 2.
Namaste! |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Apr 07 2008 : 11:42:48 PM
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Hi,
I just wanted to say that I've joined the frenum snipping society. This is my second snip. The first one was miniscule and I kind of messed it up and ended up with two bite marks. That was four days ago.
Tonight's snip was better, I'd say I snipped about 1/16'th of an inch. Now I have a flap of skin hanging out over the snip. I wonder if I should cut the flap off..?
I've also applied some turmeric to the snip site. It bled for 1/2 a minute but then stopped. It hardly hurts. Actually, this isn't half as bad as digging out ingrown toenails!
TI |
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scottfitzgerald
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2008 : 09:26:13 AM
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Made the first snip last night--I used the Jaws of Life which may have been overkill. :)
Actually, it did take a bit more courage than I had originally anticipated...but the pain did go away fairly quickly.
The interesting thing for me was the instant release in my throat region, like the frenum is part of a blockage. Just thinking about it now brings back a sense of peace mingled with excitement.
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2008 : 7:21:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi,
I just wanted to say that I've joined the frenum snipping society.
TI
God save us all! (giggle)
Welcome!
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2008 : 7:31:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Now I have a flap of skin hanging out over the snip. I wonder if I should cut the flap off..?
It will probably dissolve by itself, don’t worry about it. And given your eagerness to push the limits, if by chance you snip into a small vein then keep a clean finger (cleaned with alcohol) ready to press into the cut to stop the drama. Or use something else to apply pressure. It will close in a couple of minutes. |
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Kechari Mudra
