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mastro

Venezuela
10 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2009 :  6:09:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit mastro's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/...i-mudra.html

Re: KHECHARI MUDRA IS YONI MUDRA - 11-17-2004, 12:44 AM
93

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, sankara menon
wrote:
> i have not heard of this. Can you quote the source?
>
> jessica_malone1000
wrote:
> Yoni mudra is closing ears, nose, mouth, eyes by withdrawing it from
the external world and attending to the Yoni. The Eyes see the Yoni,
the nose smells the Yoni, the mouth tastes the yoni and the ears hear
> the moans of the woman.

Well, truely speaking there is a base for this (although i didn't
understand exactly what Jessica meant by saying what she said LOL).

As i remember there is a verse in Yoni-tantra describing this
practice, although is doesn't call it "yoni" or "khechari" mudra.
However i assume the original practice of khechari was sexual; only
later it was "internalised" in Gorakshanatha's tradition.

Moans of the woman in the time of maithuna are described as anahata-
nada by Maheshvarananda and Abhinavagupta and that nada is to be
meditated upon. Also we can recall two verses from Vijnanabhairava in
this connection.

I really think that this interpretation of Yoni-mudra is original one,
while yogic one is the later invention upon it.
If we compare names "Yoni-mudra", "Shanmukhi" and also "Khechari"
(which is not the same but related), we may see this. "Shanmukhi" is
associated not only with Shanmukha/Skanda but also with "sixth mouth"
[of Shiva] which is yogini-mukha or pichu-vaktra. And this sixth mouth
is Yoni!
The "flight", khechara, was originally connected with vamacharic
practices, melanas of siddhas and yoginis.
So...

A.
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Shanti

USA
4842 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2009 :  6:11:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by mastro


i´m new to the forum, greetings for all

anuloma viloma from inside
plenty space to go to four but i find the chanel obstructed


Welcome Mastro.

Nice to have you with us.

Maybe this topic will help:
Stage 3 K, blocking off nostrils

And this from Yogani's lesson may help
http://www.aypsite.org/108.html
Stage 4 is another dramatic step. It could be years away from stage 2&3. Everyone will be different in approaching it. There is a trick to it. The nasal passages are tall and narrow and the tongue is narrow and wide, so the tongue can only go into the nasal passages by turning on its side. But which side? One way works better than the other. The tongue can naturally be turned with the top to the center by following the channel on top of the trumpet of each eustachian tube into its adjacent nasal passage. This naturally turns the top of the tongue to the center and allows it to slide up the side of the septum into the nasal passage. Turning the tongue inward to the center is the way up into the passages. Entering stage 4 is as dramatic as entering stage 2, because the tissues in the nasal passages are extremely sensitive, and connecting with them in the way described takes the nervous system to yet a higher level. Stage 4 provides extensive stimulation of the upper ends of the sushumna, ida, and pingala, and this has huge effects throughout the nervous system, especially when combined with our pranayama and its associated bandhas and mudras.
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mastro

Venezuela
10 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2009 :  6:54:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit mastro's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Shanti
Thanks for the warm welcome
I have a clearer picture because the endoscopic youtube videos I´ve posted in this tread
Definitly I have an abnormal condition and I will go to an otorrinolaringologyst to see whats going on
Mastro
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mastro

Venezuela
10 Posts

Posted - Aug 31 2009 :  7:12:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit mastro's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Kechari Mantra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0cIiRUVWsY
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mimirom

Czech Republic
368 Posts

Posted - Nov 04 2009 :  06:27:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit mimirom's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi there,

so it happened yesterday and the day before. During the last, say, 6 months I've been occasionally trying to get into kechari 2 with the help of a finger. I've done this outside practices in the bathroom, just out of curiosity. After a few attempts I discovered that it is actually possible to get behind the uvula and stay for a few seconds up there. Well and the day before yesterday I tried to help a little with my finger, since my tongue seemed to go back on its own during samyama, and I stayed in kechari 2 for the rest of the sit. The usual urge to swallow and release the mudra did not occur this time. Yesterday morning I tried it again and it worked well. In the afternoon then, just when I was crossing a street somewhere in the city, I suddenly entered a nice kechari stage 2 with my hands in my pockets It took just a little training in the evening then to master it and now I need like one second to reach the septum with the tip of my tongue. Today I was able to stay in kechari during the whole sit, which means currently 35 minutes without discomfort. No snipping needed so far.

So thanks for listening, I'm quite excited about this...

Three questions, if you don't mind:

1) Is there any recommended general strategy of introducing kechari 2 gradually? Like starting only during SBP, then adding DM etc. Or is it reasonable to start right off with the whole sit in kechari?

2) It seems to me that the tongue is pushing relatively hardly into the tissue near the edge of the pharynx and is quite stretching it. Is this how it is supposed to be?

3) My sadhana goes currently like this: KAPALABHATI - MULABANDHA/SAMBHAVI - SBP - DM - SAMYAMA. I practice AYP for 1 year. I tried siddhasana a couple months ago, but had to stop it because of constant overload. So, since there are a couple more practices in the lessons referenced before kechari 2, which I don't do yet, I just wanted to make sure if it might be a reasonable time to start kechari 2 anyway, or should I perhaps master at least siddhasana before?

All the best,

mimirom in kechari
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Shanti

USA
4842 Posts

Posted - Nov 04 2009 :  08:23:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by mimirom

Three questions, if you don't mind:

1) Is there any recommended general strategy of introducing kechari 2 gradually? Like starting only during SBP, then adding DM etc. Or is it reasonable to start right off with the whole sit in kechari?

2) It seems to me that the tongue is pushing relatively hardly into the tissue near the edge of the pharynx and is quite stretching it. Is this how it is supposed to be?

3) My sadhana goes currently like this: KAPALABHATI - MULABANDHA/SAMBHAVI - SBP - DM - SAMYAMA. I practice AYP for 1 year. I tried siddhasana a couple months ago, but had to stop it because of constant overload. So, since there are a couple more practices in the lessons referenced before kechari 2, which I don't do yet, I just wanted to make sure if it might be a reasonable time to start kechari 2 anyway, or should I perhaps master at least siddhasana before?

All the best,

mimirom in kechari


Wonderful Mimirom.

1) Well Kechari is a powerful practice, and may have delayed overloads. So don't overdo it. You have it right, in the beginning just stay in kechari during spinal breathing then when you feel stable, you can add it to meditation. Self pacing is our friend.

2)Yes, this is normal. If this is causing you pain or discomfort you can look at this topic for some ways to ease the pain:
tender pharynx -- surprising cure

3) Good question. I know we can leap-frog to samyama, but never really thought about Kecahri. If you can go into stage 2 kechari, I think you can just keep going. Yogani will correct me if I am wrong.
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mimirom

Czech Republic
368 Posts

Posted - Nov 05 2009 :  4:10:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit mimirom's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Shanti.
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2009 :  04:13:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
sounds like you are doing just fine. One thing that I notice with learning kechari is that there can be quite a bit of tension at the base of the skull/throat that can accumulate due to the holding of the stretch of kechari so maybe want to be aware of it and self pace if that comes up. It will pass eventually as you are able to relax into it but can take some time to smooth out. keep up the good practices!
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mimirom

Czech Republic
368 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2009 :  2:31:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit mimirom's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Shanti and Victor and thanks for your comment, Victor.

I just came out of my evening practices, and have some news and questions. This entering kechari2 I'm experiencing these days was preceded by several weeks long process of throat and nasal cavities cleaning. That means expectoration, rhinitis-like symptoms, inflammation-like symptoms (this was connected with introducing amaroli, an intense energetic/emotional release in throat/mouth during deep experiential therapy, and lots of mouth/throat/jaw stretching during DM and samyama. This culminated in my kechari experience (the sick sympoms in my throat and nose are gone finally.)

I see this as a rather nice way to start with kechari and I have just one dilemma now: I intend to honor the self-pacing principles and would like to introduce kechari slowly and gradually, just as a powerful mudra should be introduced. So I started with only SBP in kechari, and the rest of the sit without it. What happened is that new energy is being unleashed in the body, and this manifests through intense flexing, stretching, clenching and opening of my jaw and mouth, also flexing the neck etc. It makes my mouth to go wide open basically and the tongue keeps rolling back and wants to go up. Today it actually entered the pharynx on it's own. So I tried to stay in kechari alternately also during DM and samyama, and the result is that when the tongue is up, all the mess around flexing and opening ceases and the practice gets smoother and quieter and the energy get's apparently well channeled.

So what would you do? Stay with only SBP in kechari, or alternate spontaneously during DM and samyama? Some ideas?

Thanks Victor for your advice regarding tension due to stretching the tongue, this doesn't seem to be a problem so far. Actually I find it rather cozy up there right from the beginning.
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mimirom

Czech Republic
368 Posts

Posted - Nov 09 2009 :  5:33:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit mimirom's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

I'd be grateful for any comments. It's still the same here: energy gets stuck in my jaw during dm and samyama. As soon as I enter kechari it immediately gets nice and smooth and meditation deepens.
I'm not sure how to navigate this situation safely.

Thanks
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yogani

USA
5162 Posts

Posted - Nov 09 2009 :  6:54:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by mimirom

Hi,

I'd be grateful for any comments. It's still the same here: energy gets stuck in my jaw during dm and samyama. As soon as I enter kechari it immediately gets nice and smooth and meditation deepens.
I'm not sure how to navigate this situation safely.

Thanks



Hi Mimirom:

Not sure when the energy blockage started in your jaw -- before or after starting kechari. It will be good to be careful about not over-stimulating it with a practice that may be related to its cause.

Have you been self-pacing in practices and grounding in activity in attempts to reduce the discomfort? Blockages in the throat and jaw can be helped with chin pump or chin pump light. Jim & K has a whole topic on front channel blockages, but I'm not sure you are in that category severity-wise at this point.

Remember that trying to "break through" uncomfortable blockages with more practice almost never works. Better to lighten up...

All the best!

The guru is in you.

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mimirom

Czech Republic
368 Posts

Posted - Nov 10 2009 :  3:03:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit mimirom's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani and thank you so much for your answer.

I've been experiencing physical activity in my neck and jaw pretty often durind DM and especially during samyama, and it is something I'm used to. This isn't anything new in my practices and I don't even consider it "discomfort" or something to be worried with.

The recent introduction of kechari during SBP definitely stimulates some new energy, and this causes again activity in my throat/jaw, as was often the case in the past anyway.
What is interesting and new for me now is that when I am in kechari, all the mess in my jaw stops immediately, and I don't need to flex and strech and open my mouth even during the rather huge energy outpourings during samyama.
As soon as I release kechari, all the physical movements are back. It's really like a switch...

So, I'm not actually concerned with overload at this point. I've been through energetically much wilder periods, for instance when trying siddhasana. Rather I'm asking myself if I should better keep testing kechari only during SBP and tolerate patiently all the jaw and body activity during DM and samyama, or to stay in kechari the entire sit, because it feels right and seems to dissolve all the physical symptoms instantly.

I tried to describe my whole kechari experience also in one of the above posts. Maybe it helps a little to clarify things.

Roman
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yogani

USA
5162 Posts

Posted - Nov 10 2009 :  3:37:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Mimirom:

It is suggested to feel your way along, keeping in mind that while kechari may be giving relief in one area, it is also causing purification and opening in other areas, perhaps not visible at the moment. There can be delayed effects, so it's suggested to proceed with caution (small steps) when increasing practice times. Your call, of course.

Carry on!

The guru is in you.

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mimirom

Czech Republic
368 Posts

Posted - Nov 10 2009 :  4:08:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit mimirom's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Yogani,

I feel I know what to do.
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Lavazza

69 Posts

Posted - Nov 23 2009 :  5:39:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lavazza's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I asked my teacher if I should practice khecari mudra. He asked me how old I was and then said that I should wait. Wonder what is about? Anyway, I will wait.
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Nov 23 2009 :  5:53:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
are you still a teen?
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Wafu

United Kingdom
76 Posts

Posted - Nov 25 2009 :  10:37:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

This is my first post on this forum, so hi all :) I learned about AYP around a month ago after being recommended by a friend, and have been practicing deep meditation twice a day for 2-3 weeks. A few days ago I noticed a real breakthrough, and my meditation seemed to become, for want of a better word, much deeper. Coupled with this, I'm now experiencing involuntary movements of my tongue towards the roof of my mouth whenever I meditate. Is this an indication that my body wants to enter kechari mudra? Everything I've read about AYP has told me that kechari is an advanced practice and should only be attempted in time. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thank you :)
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Lavazza

69 Posts

Posted - Nov 25 2009 :  4:49:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lavazza's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

No, I am 45.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3648 Posts

Posted - Nov 25 2009 :  5:52:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Wafu, and welcome to the forum.

If you want to play safe, then it is best to follow the lessons through from the start, and add practices in the order that they are described, following the time-line that is described in the lessons (lesson 35). This way you will be a able to build up a safe and stable practice and know how to regulate your practice if you have any difficulties.

If you do decide to add kechari mudra before it comes up as you proceed through the main lessons (lesson 108), then I would at least add spinal breathing pranayama first and become well established in that before adding kechari. Well established would mean a few weeks at a minimum.

I think that normally in the AYP system, spinal breathing, mulabandha, sambhavi, siddhasana and yoni mudra kumbhaka would all be added before kechari mudra.

Kechari is one of the most powerful advanced spiritual practices there is, so self-pace carefully.

All the best,

Christi
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Nov 25 2009 :  9:27:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
You are 45 but not old enough for kechari? That's pretty funny. If your teacher knows you well and thinks that perhaps you are not ready for some reason then I don't want to argue but age 45 is pretty much old enough for anything (except perhaps retirement)

Edited by - Victor on Nov 25 2009 9:28:48 PM
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Wafu

United Kingdom
76 Posts

Posted - Nov 26 2009 :  1:49:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi,

Thank you for your guidance and your welcome, it's very much appreciated. It's great to know that there's a friendly community that I can turn to for advice.

I've taken what you have said on board, I'm sure you're right in saying that I should build up a routine to include other less advanced practices over time in preparation. The movement I experience in my tongue does intrigue me, perhaps it's just a manifestation of the cleaning process brought about by meditation and not a signal that my tongue wants to travel further at this point. I'm feeling more comfortable with the sensation these days, and I plan to let it become completely natural before I begin spinal breathing. The most important thing, as you've said and as I've read, is pacing.

Thanks again, and keep well,

Alex
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Lavazza

69 Posts

Posted - Nov 27 2009 :  3:33:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lavazza's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Victor

You are 45 but not old enough for kechari? That's pretty funny. If your teacher knows you well and thinks that perhaps you are not ready for some reason then I don't want to argue but age 45 is pretty much old enough for anything (except perhaps retirement)



Well, his teacher gave him instructions 30-40 years ago about things that he should do some years ago when he was 75.
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Nov 27 2009 :  7:48:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Lavazza, you are confusing me
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Lavazza

69 Posts

Posted - Nov 28 2009 :  9:10:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lavazza's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
OK. Apparently my teacher sometimes gives advice that is not obvious at all. One long time student told me that our teacher told him twenty years ago that he should get married before going into any deeper yoga practice. According to him this was excellent advice.

My teacher is extremely secretive about what his teacher told him to do during the one year retreat he was told to do at the age of 75.

Eventually I will find out what his advice concerning khecari mudra was all about. I am in no hurry.

This summer I got some strange instructions on how I should practice Kaphalabati and Bhastrika. I should partially close my glottis. Which is really difficult. But sometime I will get it.
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Perrin

USA
2 Posts

Posted - Nov 05 2010 :  3:04:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
My experience with kechari mudra (first post).

I have been meditating for thirty years. Though my school makes reference to kechari and emphasizes its importance, it offers no practical instruction. From classic works like the _Hath Yoga Pradipika_ I was aware of frenum cutting, milking, etc. And though tempted from time to time to try these things, an inner resistance—not squeamishness; I’m not a squeamish person—always kept me from committing to them. Finding out, rather late in the game, that Shyama Charan Lahiri was against cutting validated my intuition in this regard.

Within the last year—talk about late in the game—I was introduced to talabya kriya as a preliminary exercise for achieving kechari. (Ennio Nimis’s site has an accurate description of the technique.) And though this may sound like one of those I-lost-thirty-pounds-in-thirty-days ads, I started doing fifty talabya a day—it takes only a few minutes—and within four months kechari came naturally. Since then I have been able to sit for long periods in meditation (and other environments) with my tongue securely, comfortably in the upper portion of the nasal pharynx, contacting even the ‘second uvula’ in the nasal cavity.

Points:

Did my history of meditation prior to discovering talabya contribute in any way to my rapid success?

I don’t know.

Are some folks, due to certain physical traits, able to achieve kechari more easily than others?

I don’t know. I do know that when my tongue is stretched externally, I still cannot touch even the tip of my nose, let alone the space between my eyebrows. And yet, as I say, my tongue rests comfortably and indefinitely in the upper reaches of the pharynx whenever I turn it back and insert it there. I suspect the grandiose claims in the _Pradipika_ and other traditional works re long tongues may be the same sort of misdirection, for the idly curious, that causes these texts to claim this or that asana cures everything from hemorrhoids to halitosis.

Does achieving kechari mudra open the door to a whole new level of sadhana?

Yes.
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