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Jim and His Karma

2110 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2008 :  12:54:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
On days when my ecstatic conductivity is greater than my silence, new people I meet react to me strangely. With suspicion and fear, like something's "not quite normal". Which, in a way, I guess is true!

And when silence is greater, there's a totally different reaction from new people. The other day, as I walked through a restaurant, I heard a kid say "Mommy, that man's spooky!" I cracked up! But I was also grateful to have it expressed so clearly and directly (thank god for kids!). I instantly recalled friends who were heavy meditators, who had a spooky, disconnected, almost aloof effect, even though they were not really any of those things at all. I hadn't put it together before.

So maybe the answer is to get the balance "just right", ala Goldilocks and the porridge! But I've had days where I felt just right on-spot...brimming with vitality (but not in an edgey, nervous way), and chilled out so deeply that I couldn't imagine being put off my peace. Still: strange reactions. Something smells "off". It's undeniable that we humans have a deeply engrained genetic aversion to that which is different. And deep silence and ecstatic conductivity are undeniably "different"!

Strangest of all: I've grown extremely patient, and will contentedly wait on line or in a traffic jam as happily as if I were in a hammock on a lovely beach. I used to be anxious and uptight, but have lost all that (thanks, AYP!). But on countless occasions, as I've waited for change, the cashier nervously speeds up, or her hand shakes, or she'll say "sorry this is taking so long!". Exactly the reaction you'd expect from someone encountering a visibly impatient, stressed-out customer. I've tried to ward this off - by text messaging, whistling, smiling, making small talk, or applying more or less eye contact or body space. No luck. The energy, I guess, comes off as "impatience" (under the hood, I think my remaining dribs and drabs of impatience are magnifying via the lens of my silence...damned samskaras!!).

I feel like Casper...I just want to make people happy! God, I'm not looking to stress cashiers and spook kids!

Much of the time I feel as if I'm brimming with love and peacefulness. And we assume that those qualities are attractive and contagious. But here's the big question: how attracted to love and peace, in general, IS the average person? I think we all have at least a weak innate attraction to those things deep down, which over the course of thousands of lifetimes draws everyone gradually and inevitably into spiritual awakening. But don't human beings categorically recoil from love and peace with their every action? Isn't that the very dilemma of humanity? That we recoil from the godly loving peace that surrounds us and fills us and IS us?

That being the case, why would my individual embodiment of those qualities NOT be recoiled from? A quick look at the history of saints - even Jesus! - would seem to belie the notion that this work will increase our stock in the everyday world. I'm nowhere near their point, of course, but neither am I suffering their real-world results! And, man, I certainly hope I never do! But as I work away those remaining dribs and drabs, and more deeply balance my stillness and my conductivity, even in best case scenario, why would my result not be like their's? It's nice to imagine that when you "get it just right", people in your midst will not only feel the love but LOVE the love. But hasn't that myth been smashed by the actual historic record of spiritually advanced people?

Anyway.....I'm wondering about the experiences of other more experienced practitioners (people with a good deal of silence and ecstatic conductivity). It's a different story for beginners.... at the stage where we become a little kinder, a little more empathic, a little more patient -- mild changes strictly of personality that can't fail to please those around us! Are any other longer-time practitioners, who've experienced really deep changes from the practice, finding this "Casper The Friendly Ghost" syndrome ever coming up?

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 19 2008 01:16:14 AM

VIL

USA
586 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2008 :  12:50:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Jim, that was a great story and was your true self giving you a good pat on the back for all of your hard work toward detachment! Or for surrendering to practice and process if this is preferable. I'll give you a good pat on the back too, congrats!

You are on the right track and that part of your self knew it, because no matter what you did or didn't do you were a mirror reflecting the little boy who considers certain external objects as "spooky" (like all children usually do) and the cashier who attaches emotional feelings like 'impatience' to external situations,(like most adults usually do):LOL.

And did you further witness that the child considered your external state as a reflection of his internal state? While the adult considered your internal state, which caused the external state of shaking hands? A wide variant of development was utilized so that, again, you would understand this concept that you were detached from the outside world. You became the object itself that produced various states of perception without doing a thing.

Now, you are beginning to differentiate between true self development and what is not, since not all things or situations are a true reflection of who we are, or the Self, if there is no attachment present. But is that of the other persons current state of perception or internal/external attachment. In psychological terms this is called projection. It is the same thing that you are experiencing. Or you were silently witnessing the process, as yogani calls it.

Yet we can also see ourselves in a different perspective, since we all have been nervous or have considered certain things as superstitious, or spooky, and it's a good way to help another person overcome these same fears that we've overcome. It's also a call for a different sort of action, in other words, which builds shraddah.



VIL

Edited by - VIL on Feb 19 2008 1:24:09 PM
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Jim and His Karma

2110 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2008 :  3:54:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting feedback via email from a number of forumites with similar issues. Some great insights, too. I'm going to write this in sort of shorthand, and so it won't be very useful for beginning meditators, but that's ok as this is not a beginner issue anyway. If you're inside this issue, then the following will speak clearly to you.

Here's one for now: Re: the cashier, I'm just as impatient as always, but my impatience is covered over for me (and only for me) by yogic bliss, and my body is doing all its habitual impatient moves and vibes but I've detached from it. In my deeper Self, I'm calm and patient, but I'm playing the game at two levels, and have grown unaware of the old level that still walks, zombie-like, in my footsteps. Solution: work on relaxing stress in the body during social encounters, even though no stress is felt....sort of like doing stain removal on what appears to be a perfectly unsoiled white shirt. Detaching is great, in other words, but the body doesn't fall in line...it keeps floundering along out of habit until it receives new instructions.

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 19 2008 3:58:01 PM
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yogani

USA
5189 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2008 :  4:34:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

Detaching is great, in other words, but the body doesn't fall in line...it keeps floundering along out of habit until it receives new instructions.


Hi Jim:

Exactly. The whole world will be floundering until we come back in.

We owe it to our body and surroundings to move outward from stillness. This is the natural evolution of abiding inner silence. That's why it is pointed out in the Self-Inquiry book that dispassion leads to outpouring divine love. It is a stepping stone to unity. Samyama, self-inquiry and karma yoga (service) are tools for moving stillness into action.

This was also discussed over here today: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3390#30259

All the best!

The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma

2110 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2008 :  5:36:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yogani, to be sure we're on the same page, by "detaching" I don't mean removing myself from anything. I use the word in the classical spiritual sense of releasing my grasping need for things to turn out any particular way. Immersing in the doing without judging what's done. Dropping the drama, the pressure, the neediness, the fear, and just letting stuff happen (and delighting in it, regardless).

The problem is that while I can do that with wonderful result (bliss, peace, freedom), my body continues to act as if its grasping, judging, pressuring, and needing....all completely beyond my observation and in stark contrast to my actual feelings. I would happily spend an hour with a cashier struggling to make change, and it'd feel like vacation to me. It involves no sense of withdrawal, it's just how it is. I only detach from the angst!

But my body, surprisingly and horrifyingly, seems to be broadcasting a big fat "hurry the %$#@ up!" sentiment. 'Cuz that's what it did for years, and it doesn't know what else to do, now that I decline to inhabit that anxiety.
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2008 :  5:42:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

Here's one for now: Re: the cashier, I'm just as impatient as always, but my impatience is covered over for me (and only for me) by yogic bliss, and my body is doing all its habitual impatient moves and vibes but I've detached from it. In my deeper Self, I'm calm and patient, but I'm playing the game at two levels, and have grown unaware of the old level that still walks, zombie-like, in my footsteps. Solution: work on relaxing stress in the body during social encounters, even though no stress is felt....sort of like doing stain removal on what appears to be a perfectly unsoiled white shirt. Detaching is great, in other words, but the body doesn't fall in line...it keeps floundering along out of habit until it receives new instructions.


Yes.. your body is still living the stress that it has learnt to live with for years.. your body has not caught up with your deeper self. You have to actually train/deprogram your body to relax and be in sync with your deeper self.
This is what I was talking about here
quote:
The body has still not forgotten how it's supposed to react.. and this is really strange (strange because it seems like the body reactions are independent of the emotional reactions).. it's like the brain sets off the physical reactions it always did during stress.. and the mind tries to hold on to the feelings and stories arising.. but fails.. it all dissolves away into the silence.. at least this is what I experience.. and from my level this is really huge (not when it's happening.. but later when I think of how I reacted or handled a situation.. when it's happening, there is no effort involved.. the silence just does its thing) and yet so normal that I wonder how I missed it for so long. The mind is confused, so is the body.. but the silence just is.. and like Yogani says the silence moves, or like Adyashanti says, Emptiness Dances.. The silence moves to encompass whatever else is arising, you don't have to surrender (trying to surrender is a mind concept too).. there is nothing to do.. it is all done once the silence moves (that is why being in some kind of regular practice that increases your inner silence, is so important).
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VIL

USA
586 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2008 :  9:21:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
yogani: The whole world will be floundering until we come back in.


Mentioning the term flounder-ing made me think of vesica pisces or two circles conjoined at the center. It literally means, "bladder of the fish" which is part of the greater flower of life or one circle conjoined to the next until a flower can be seen objectively.

The constant reevaluation of our internal state or constant pushing and pulling that Christ often associated with a narrow road, although He is more often than not associated with vesical pisces or this flower of life. Both terms used to convey this same concept that AYP calls the silent witness or unfolding of our perceptions until we reach the fourth state of Turiya and beyond.

Anyway, I just wanted to share that this cyclical flower is more often a narrow road, as we go in and out of Samadhi. Or can be likened to a metal ball bouncing within an elastic circular band until a narrow passage forces this ball to action, since it is as inevitable part of the process and progress as we realize who we are, as Christ taught by the way of action - until we can look at the flower objectively - or walk atop the water - or whatever symbolism we want to use.

Anyway, it's easier to act ourselves out of a bad habit than it is to think our way out and simultaneously helps us get rid of fear.

I am usually that fish, too, floundering back and forth and understand what you mean Jim and Shanti. It isn't easy at times.

Take care:



VIL

Edited by - VIL on Feb 19 2008 9:24:37 PM
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Sparkle

Ireland
1457 Posts

Posted - Feb 20 2008 :  02:22:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Sparkle's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jim, just to add my 2 cents.
It seems to me like you have a deepy developed witness or equinimity and so can be in this lovely peace and love.
One way I like to think of this is with the metaphor:
"Sitting on a rock in the lovely sunshine and with the feet and legs dangling in the water of a cold river. We enjoy the sunshine but are also aware of the cold water."

It seems you are becoming aware of the cold water by way of observing other people's reactions to you.
We can be detached and in a good space and also see, what seems like a video playing out in front of us. The video is our conditioned patterns acting out their old ways. The more we can observe and stay aware of this video, out of our silence, the more it dissolves away.

Probably saying the same thing as others, in a different way
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Feb 23 2008 :  3:28:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Can I ask... when you see your bodies move according to old conditioned patterns... is it combined with a feeling of it moving automatically, as when automatic yoga occurs, or is it another bodily feeling? And also, does it happen that you see these movements in slow motion? Do you have any "spacious" or "floating" feelings while it happens?
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julied

USA
19 Posts

Posted - Feb 24 2008 :  12:17:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit julied's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Jim,

From my perspective - it's a Shakti-based groove you're in. Sometimes folks around are having their inner divine being touched by yours. Their reactions can be anything. The places that can be touched can be surrounded by anything that would cause one to gravitate towards or run from.

Perhaps the feeling of your radiance had the cashier suddenly feeling herself as being evaluated on job performance. Then voila, she's there in it, not knowing quite why the presence of still, calm, diddlying-whistling you seemed to invoke her annual-review anxieties. Perhaps the sight of your different auric colors and height of your crown hood had the kid in his in-between worlds state, suddenly seeing more than most as kids often do. Then voila, he's just a kid going "Wow!"

Clearly to me, the vibe of a heavy meditator is inherently different than that of one who doesn't. I call these people "brights". I see/and or feel them from a distance, always. They inevitably look up, and around too and find and meet my eyes. A person get his groove on in meditation, and they DO get bright!!! LOL... And in those times, if I find I cannot or wish not to meet their eyes - I am quite aware of choosing to stay in the much greater tide of denseness. If I am the bright one in the presence of someone who suddenly seems uncomfortable, it's simply a matter of me to feel like I'm 'folding' a cloak, my Shakti some degrees inward around me - like a angel would fold in her wings somewhat.

Nothing turns off, courteous only. I think ultimately we only recoil from the effect of unanticipated cleansing. Can you imagine how shocking it might be to be suddenly aware of your deepest yearnings, your most hidden selves, everything that's totally pure and unpure about yourself - simply for having seen or walked by someone who's eyes are relaxed, whose pace and being seem calm yet clear? Of course we can easily point to them as odd, off, any number of easily obtained words to cover the experience. For me it is exactly the urge to run into and be grasped by the arms of the one who's arms are the least bit grasping that feels repellent.

It's the Guru-gig in miniature. I can claim full responsibility for invoking karma in those around me by the sheer radiance of my own long-time meditative light, and offer to help them with it. I could claim zero responsibility, hope it happens less, and seek to surround myself with folks who are close or as nearly lit as me. Or... my choice, I could learn to adjust my spooky and radiance dial and turn it down in the company of most, then turn it all the way up when I know I'm in the company of those giving a big YES! to its effects.

That you noticed the cashier's deteriorating affect and wished for something different for both her and you tells me a karma play did occur. Love 'bombing' is just that - bombing. Everyone is not always ready for a bomb...
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Feb 24 2008 :  03:01:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Julie, you mention a funny thing. That instant recognition of a "bright" person also sometimes happens to me in funny ways. One time I sat on the tube and a lady comes to sit opposite me. We both instantly knew that we both knew, so we just blurted out a few wise words to eachother in full friendly agreement, smiled, and then she went off at the next station!
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julied

USA
19 Posts

Posted - Feb 24 2008 :  4:49:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit julied's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
A "bright" I met at the grocery store surprised me by handling my grapes so carefully in such a meditative and breath-attentive way I thought I would burst from the bliss!
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Feb 29 2008 :  04:31:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm truly interested in hearing about your perceptions of how the "I watch my body do things"-state is characterized.

I feel exactly like in Wallace & Gromit "Wrong trousers". It's like I'm in a robot - body does things and I watch in astonishment. (My God! A penguin rules my life!? ) This clip is actually showing pretty well how I perceive my life at the moment. When I'm out of the trousers, the whoaaaaaaaa-feeling is still there, although I don't yet know if the ending will be as happy as in the clip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH0fjTof8P4

Edited by - emc on Feb 29 2008 04:34:14 AM
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Jim and His Karma

2110 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2008 :  12:53:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Following up on my original posting in this thread, after a surprisingly long time (the issue I was writing about had been around for a couple years), I'm past the problem. It'd have been pretty horrific if I didn't have the peace and bliss of yoga practice. But I think what I was going through wouldn't happen to folks lacking sufficient silent witness to pass through cleanly, without getting personally anguished about it too much (not that I didn't have my moments of mild despair).

I spent a couple weeks outside the country, dealing with a lot of people. Lots of engagement, and engagement outside my normal realm and discomfort zone. I was also traveling with a friend, and am not used to dealing with other people 24/7. Different schedule, different diet, different everything, all with lots of the engagement Yogani is constantly urging.

It also coincided with the fruition of the grounding work I'd been steadily working on. As with every opening in yoga, there's "open" and there's "really open"! A thoroughly blocked pipe might seem quite dramatically open if you make a mere pinhole in the gunk. It's all relative! But, thanks to the throat deconstriction (see http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3296 ) and the lower abdomen breathing (see http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#30474 ) that I'd been working on (plus the chinese herbs mentioned in that thread...a huge but slow-acting factor), I really got some serious flow down from my head, down the front.

I'm not sure whether that flushing ended the Casper The Friendly Ghost Syndrome or if it was vice versa. Abandon hope all yee who try to ascertain cause and effect in yoga experiences.


Now, la-de-dah, people I meet like me. Instead of recoiling, they're attracted. I'm not getting excited about it, nor trying to calculate how to "use" it. I just witness with amusement; more and more of the movie out there seems so bemusedly capricious, at a more and more fundamental level...

Anyway, what I've learned (and I'm posting here for benefit of others who search through this forum in future re: the same dilemma) is that this was merely a "burp" on the trail, not an unspoken-of downside of spiritual progress. It's not that kundalini or silence themselves "smell bad" to people. That had been my suspicion. I'm glad it's not true.

Outwardly radiating energy acts as a magnifying lens for your remaining subconscious bits of poison. So if energy gets ahead of silence, you may find yourself broadcasting louder and louder these tinier and tinier dabs. Per above, I always seemed impatient to cashiers, and the fact of the matter is that I probably still WAS veeeeery slightly impatient, beneath my vastly cleaned-out generally high patience level. And those seeds of impatience were flinging outward on the waves of my energy, nailing them in the forehead at 600 mph!

It's a clumsy metaphor, but I think it's actually kind of sort of like that. To be sure, I still have lots of little holding-back points in the murky swamps just outside my conscious awareness (visualize Gulliver tied down by tons and tons of little bonds!). I don't imagine for a minute that I've achieved some sort of squeaky-cleanness (or even that that's achievable by humans). But I've gotten my energy and my silence better into synch. See this incredibly evocative posting by Sparkle which shows the way: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3776#32605

In the big picture, those of us with lots of outpouring energy just need to wait for more and more little knots to be worked on by the mantra until a smoother spray is eventually produced. Isn't ALL of practice about calmly soldiering on against whatever background appears while the knots untie? At a certain point, the backdrop can get really dramatic. This one was particularly dramatic. In Christian terms, it was a huge test of faith.

Yoga's real organic, so not everything always happens in perfect synchronization. It's like cleaning an old house's plumbing: the plumbers get the upstairs pipes nice and cleaned up, all the sinks finally work perfectly, and then everything jams again, because the sludge passing through the system from upstairs clogged things up worse than ever as it passed into the main line downstairs. This explains the "3 steps forward, 2 steps backward" effect we constantly experience in yoga. In the end, the cosmic Roto-Rooter system (mantra) will blast through it all, but it does its work teaspoon by teaspoon. There's nothing to do but to let the Cosmic Barber (again: mantra) trim your hair in His own time and at His own rate.


Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 13 2008 11:14:15 PM
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VIL

USA
586 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2008 :  4:58:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Great post, Jim.

Namaste:



VIL

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brushjw

USA
191 Posts

Posted - Jun 01 2008 :  7:18:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit brushjw's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I've noticed that my outer quiet mirrors my inner. People seem to not know that I'm around and become startled - sometimes angry - when they notice my presence. I've thought of wearing a cow bell around my neck so people will hear me coming

Anyone else have this experience?

namaste,
Joe
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