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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 05 2007 : 07:38:58 AM
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emc .....
See.....the guru really is in you  |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2007 : 12:40:14 PM
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Originally posted by Katrine:
"Yes....I am not disputing that the world is full of egos working for themselves...but...whether we agree or not is not so important."
OK.  But if it's really not important to you whether we agree or not, why do you find it necessary to reply in behalf of your own understanding as if it is important to you? 
"What is truly beneficial (to all), is to act according ones own understanding (true understanding - not mental knowledge; "borrowed knowledge"). If I act according to what I understand - truth will immediately respond. The response will be the guide to further understanding."
Your statement assumes that your understanding is always based on truth, and is never subject to the human imperfections of false perception and illusion, does it not? How is that perspective free of attachments to value judgements and personal discriminations?  With all due respect, it certainly looks like ego based duality is still the reference point in such self-estimation. 
Hari OM!
Doc |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2007 : 1:25:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc
The fullest potential of all manifestations and expressions of power within us and through us, for the greatest positive good of all, is dependent upon our willingness to accept our calling for its use with complete surrender to God's Will, IMO. This is the ultimate act of devotion, is it not?
Hi Doc:
Of course, "God's Will" is "ishta," one's chosen ideal in the act of bhakti. For one person it may be the deity and/or master of a religious tradition. For another, it may be the unconditioned stillness present within, and everywhere. For yet another, it may be the whispering spirits of nature.
So, what is "God's Will?" It is that which we are able to surrender to that represents something greater than our limited personal existence. Our longing and devotion to That will take us forward into the unlimited. It does not have to be religious (the concept of "God" is not mandatory). Nor does it have to be non-religious. It is for no one to judge except each of us in our heart. We will know our own tree by its fruit. And we can self-pace accordingly. 
The guru is in you.
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2007 : 1:33:02 PM
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I have always loved this quote:
"Religious truth is not absolute but relative". Baha'u'llah
Different perceptions of truth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Mar 05 2007 1:41:17 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2007 : 2:36:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani:
So, what is "God's Will?" It is That which we are able to surrender to that represents something greater than our limited personal existence. Our longing and devotion to That will take us forward into the unlimited. It does not have to be religious (the concept of "God" is not mandatory).
Hello Yogani:
Indeed! If the concept of 'God' is not mandatory, and is neither religious nor non-religious, are we then merely quibbling over semantics? Perhaps a different term would feel more comfortable...more non-sectarian and equitable...or more politically correct here.
Would you prefer 'Brahman'...or 'Elohim'...or 'Higher Power'...or 'Divine Consciousness'....or what? Are all of these the same in essence, or different in meaning by degree to a given individual? These are ultimately only terms of convenience for the human mind when attempting to reference That which is indefinable, unrestricted, unlimited, and unconditioned in any way, are they not?
Is it ever appropriate for any of us to judge others on the assumption that our self-esteemed spiritual understanding and experience is somehow more infused with Truth? I learned long ago that the manifestation of all gifts, all talents, all knowledge, all spiritual understanding, and all that manifests positive and good within me, through me, and around me comes from the Divine Source of All , and that every manifestation of error, mistake, misunderstanding, and negativity in any form has always been orchestrated by "me" alone...separated from the Source in varying degrees of illusion.
As such, I make no claims for my own views, and merely ask for clarification from others regarding their views.
Hari OM!
Doc |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2007 : 2:50:22 PM
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Hi Doc
quote:
"Yes....I am not disputing that the world is full of egos working for themselves...but...whether we agree or not is not so important."
Actually.....the quote read:
quote:
Yes. But looking beyond this.....(I am not disputing that the world is full of egos working for themselves; great list, by the way, Doc).....is the fact of Being.
Doc wrote:
quote:
OK. But if it's really not important to you whether we agree or not, why do you find it necessary to reply in behalf of your own understanding as if it is important to you?
I don't find it necessary.....I love it
I love the fact of Being. It is more important than whether we agree or not.
Doc wrote:
quote:
Your statement assumes that your understanding is always based on truth, and is never subject to the human imperfections of false perception and illusion, does it not?
How come you assume that?
My understanding is what it is. So is yours.
quote:
How is that perspective free of attachments to value judgements and personal discriminations
I couldn't possibly answer that, since I never claimed my understanding to be what you assume above. As I said, it is what it is. As is yours.
quote:
With all due respect, it certainly looks like ego based duality is still the reference point in such self-estimation
Self estimation? Is that what it is?
*laughing*
Doc - I'm sorry - I promise I will continue to look for the splinter in my eye that obscures my vision
In the mean time - thanks for responding. I still love it - whether we agree or not.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2007 : 4:39:54 PM
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Hi Katrine:
What a Hoot! Thank you! I'm now radiating with ecstatic laughter.
I made an observation, not an assumption, based on the words that you posted. My observations and questions remain the same, and your attempts to discount and mock them with your cleverly evasive verbal ripostes do not pass unnoticed! 
In any event, I didn't really expect to receive a serious reply from you anyway, as you obviously don't like to have your 'truth' questioned.
That's very telling in and of itself.
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Mar 05 2007 5:42:27 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2007 : 11:41:46 PM
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Hi Doc
Katrine has always been seen by me to be standing pretty firmly in reality. I've never seen a false bone in her body here on the forum. I've watched her do some very awesome and inspiring unfolding in her spiritual experience over the past year or so, and she has been very kind to share her personal journey with the rest of us here. I know it will be easy to toss my words aside as I am known for being slightly askew in my less than sober meanderings of flighty imaginitive experiences and undisciplined reports, but I don't think Katrine has a big ego agenda here. In fact, I don't think Katrine has much of an ego problem at all. I think her's has actually climbed in the back-seat and is sitting awestruck by the beautiful scenery on the ride named Katrine.
Peace to you sir
Alan |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 02:35:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc
and your attempts to discount and mock them with your cleverly evasive verbal ripostes do not pass unnoticed!
Why do you perceive her answer as mocking ?
How do you know that it is intended to be mocking ?
kind regards
Wolfgang |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 06:17:30 AM
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May i jump in here?
This is probably off-topic, but recently i have concluded that the so-called goal of enlightenment probably doesn't exist. ie the state of complete non-attachment - since such a state would mean a person has become perfect. Who is perfect? Nobody is, in my estimation.
It really comes down to the purpose for being on this earth in the first place. In the Hindu philosophies we aren't told why we are here. Instead we are told to get away from here. I can't bring myself to accept this.
So, perhaps there are moments when the ego dissolves but i've never met a person i can communicate with who doesnt think or have a tongue. Ego-bashing is just self-reflective since we all have an imperfect ego. My two cents. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 10:26:43 AM
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To be fair to Doc, there does seem to be an implication there from Katrine that Doc would see a splinter in someone else's eye, but not a log in his own -- which is very much taking the conversation to a personally contentious level. So if folks can make up nicely with some kind words -- and move on -- that's good.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 10:35:08 AM
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Thank you, David:
So let it be written and so let it be done. Blessed Be, Katrine!
Hari OM!
Doc |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 11:18:45 AM
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| By the way, my "praise" for Katrine does not mean I think she is pure and perfect and a saint of the highest order of the cosmos (any order you choose to use). I can state the same recognition for anyone here as I think I observe us all learning and opening. I'm sure she doesn't estimate herself above and beyond us other mere mortals, I certainly don't put her there. As far as perfect goes in this world, we are all perfect. Who would want this life experience to unfold any other way than has been provided and played out by the One who is beyond perfection? |
Edited by - Balance on Mar 06 2007 11:33:16 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 1:01:28 PM
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quote:
This is probably off-topic, but recently i have concluded that the so-called goal of enlightenment probably doesn't exist. ie the state of complete non-attachment - since such a state would mean a person has become perfect. Who is perfect? Nobody is, in my estimation.
Hi Gumpi,
Of course you can jump in anywhere you like. I think everything in life is perfect for what we need to experience in order to realize ourselves.
I think it is our definition of what perfect is that needs adjusting.
If you have an expectation of life being something it's not, like I should have X amount of dollars in the bank and I should be 6 foot 4 and look like Brad Pitt to be perfect, etc. then we will never have perfection. If we experience what is happening right now to us and realize it is absolutely perfect for us on some level to learn and grow and to eventually find lasting happiness, then everything and everyone is perfect.
All I know is that it feels a lot better to me to view the world like the above and find perfection in what Is and that I feel crappy when my expectations don't match what is happening to me now.
A
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 1:42:11 PM
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Hi Doc
May you be blessed too!
I am sorry for the situation created above.
If it is any comfort to you; I never ment to imply that you had a log in your eye (proverbs aren't my thing.....). But I can easily see how it could look that way. I was, however, being ironic - and I could have refrained from that. I am sorry.
Thanks for forgiving me!
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 3:38:09 PM
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quote:
Balance wrote: By the way, my "praise" for Katrine does not mean I think she is pure and perfect and a saint of the highest order of the cosmos
I do!
LOL! 
However, Doc's way of reasoning, for example: quote:
Your statement assumes that your understanding is always based on truth, and is never subject to the human imperfections of false perception and illusion, does it not? How is that perspective free of attachments to value judgements and personal discriminations?
is very much similar to how my own mind is trying to slaughter "truths" from the divine.
Divine messages (aka TRUTH) is trying to be transmitted via imperfect MIND vehicles in text. It is sometimes not possible to transfer via text. It has to be experienced. From my understanding, Katrine is in her posts in forum very skilled to just let the TRUTH flow through her mind, fingers and posts to reach us here! I do not really care about the way it is expressed in letters. I listen to the message and I experience TRUTH when I read.
If I get emotional or "mindy" about it - it is not the TRUTH for me to receive at that moment. I try to make my life simple. |
Edited by - emc on Mar 06 2007 3:40:52 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 3:45:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
quote:
Balance wrote: By the way, my "praise" for Katrine does not mean I think she is pure and perfect and a saint of the highest order of the cosmos
I do!
LOL!
However, Doc's way of reasoning, for example: quote:
Your statement assumes that your understanding is always based on truth, and is never subject to the human imperfections of false perception and illusion, does it not? How is that perspective free of attachments to value judgements and personal discriminations?
is very much similar to how my own mind is trying to slaughter "truths" from the divine.
Divine messages (aka TRUTH) is trying to be transmitted via imperfect MIND vehicles in text. It is sometimes not possible to transfer via text. It has to be experienced. From my understanding, Katrine is in her posts in forum very skilled to just let the TRUTH flow through her mind, fingers and posts to reach us here! I do not really care about the way it is expressed in letters. I listen to the message and I experience TRUTH when I read.
If I get emotional or "mindy" about it - it is not the TRUTH for me to receive at that moment. I try to make my life simple.
Wise words EMC!
A
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 4:25:38 PM
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Hi Katrine:
Thank you. No problem on this end. Please accept my apology as well for misinterpreting your comments.
I have enjoyed reading your posts, and look forward to continue doing so.
All the best to you and yours ~
Doc |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 05:03:04 AM
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Hi Katrine,
Thanks for the reply.
For what it's worth I think you are a Goddess from one of the Celestial Realms who got lost and ended up here by mistake. But that's just my opinion. The Guru may be within me, but it's nice to have a few lost Goddesses around to help out once in a while.
quote:
Yes....
Only..... it is not something that happens "around you". It is you. Radiance is never not here. You are always that. And as such - it truly is your power. But....with "me" as the reference point.....I cloud the shine. It is not that I "should not" use the power for my own benefit.....it is simply that it is impossible. It can't be done. When "me" is the reference point...I immediately make the shine unavailable. When I surrender.....when I am quiet....the shine of reality floods into the vacant space previously occupied by "me".
When you use the word "Shine", does that mean that you see the radiance? I do not see it, I only feel it. I have heard you talk about this Shine before but did not realize that you were talking about the Energy radiating out from us. I thought you were talking about everything in the world shining from within.
quote:
The increased radiance.... is not really an increase - it is simply less obscured, that's all.
I don't get this? If someone feels the radiance more strongly when they are close to me, then does that mean they are simply more aware of what is already there, because of some kind of harmonization with my mind state?
quote:
Christi......
Thanks for sharing your radiance. Embrace it as yourself. Let the intelligence of the shine determine what to do or not do. Nothing is wrong. You are not harming anybody. On the contrary. Don't be overly concerned with how others are dealing with this. How are you embracing and surrendering to the love you are, is more crucial. Everything starts with you.....and ends with you.
Does this mean that you don't adjust the level of your radiance according to who you are with? You just trust that they will be O.K.?
I am longing to ask another question which seems to be implicit in the way you write. Do you see other people as seperate from yourself?
Christi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 09:15:17 AM
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Hi Doc
quote:
Thank you. No problem on this end. Please accept my apology as well for misinterpreting your comments.
Absolutely, Doc
Thank you! |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 10:02:31 AM
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Hi All
About the "lost-godess/saint/celestial-realms" thing....
The only discription selected from above I can honestly say I have directly experienced is...LOST. It happens all the time !
That's it, folks.
Sorry to disappoint you  ]
We all are the equation (as Doc so appropriately put it). It is you who inspire the writing!
Thank you
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 11:34:54 AM
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Hi Christi
quote:
When you use the word "Shine", does that mean that you see the radiance? I do not see it, I only feel it. I have heard you talk about this Shine before but did not realize that you were talking about the Energy radiating out from us. I thought you were talking about everything in the world shining from within.
Yes and no.
Do I see the shine? Yes......I don't know if this can be described properly....but I perceive the shine. Everything is chrystal clear...even the smallest rubble in the street is permeated by this....clarity. It is beautiful.....no matter what it looks like. Everything is ...tydelig (sorry...Norwegian word...means sort of explicit)....nothing is hidden. It is so clear that it is brilliant. Everything everywhere has this quality of clarity.....the unified perception of it is like everything "shines". But my eyes cannot describe the light.....cannot really see the light....only the clarity that is the result of it. Puh....umph.....how do you describe colorless light....it can't be done, really.
Whether it is the energy radiating from me or not - I never think about it - I am always in such awe when it happens. In the beginning it was accidental; but now it happens every time I am not self conscious. I am just here, quiet. If i am not mentally relaxed (for some reason or other) i cannot perceive the shine. I eventually figured out that when I am not relaxed (mentally) - i am self conscious (one way or another). The two are one and the same - a contraction inside. At the same time; I cannot "fake" the "not-self-conscious state" (obviously...since any falseness is related to the person I think i am). But when i relax and stay quiet, when I forget myself, the shine is always here now.
Also - the shine presents itself with different.....qualities. It is always a presence. It is a Joyous shine (like unheard laughter) sometimes, a Loving shine other times (my chest is throbbing with it) ; another time it is ....immensly Strong....an incredible Strenght that is almost too much to take...
All these always happen both "inside" and "outside" the body.....it is one homogenious field.
quote:
quote:
The increased radiance.... is not really an increase - it is simply less obscured, that's all.
I don't get this? If someone feels the radiance more strongly when they are close to me, then does that mean they are simply more aware of what is already there, because of some kind of harmonization with my mind state?
Yes and no.
They are not harmonizing with your mind state.....somehow your radiance draws them closer (harmonizes them) to Reality (which is constant). Exactly what happens to you at the same time. They feel the same pull you do. Except you are pulled inside....and they are pulled to you (they are pulled into contact with reality throughyou.) That's why I said that the crucial point is you. How you embrace the radiance by being quiet inside. Don't leave yourself and start worrying/noticing how it affects others. Don't fret. Be still. Stay with it. The Love will know what to do.
Hm...
Somehow....I can't describe the shine as "energy". No....it doesn't sound right. The shine is....like the vapour from a boiling kettle......it is what happens when the heat (energy) transforms the matter.....or "melts" the matter. Energy can be seen and felt, but the shine is perceived only (sorry....I am not being very clear....but this is the best i can do).
quote:
Does this mean that you don't adjust the level of your radiance according to who you are with? You just trust that they will be O.K.?
Yes. I stay with the shine. Or act if I feel the pull to do so. That's all. Of course - if I contract inside; if I react....if i become self conscious - then this resistance to what happens might maybe cause energy happenings also (in the other body)? I don't know, Christi. Nobody ever reported getting troubling symptoms (other than the usual reactions between interacting people).
quote:
I am longing to ask another question which seems to be implicit in the way you write. Do you see other people as seperate from yourself?
When the contraction inside is where the attention goes - then yes; i see everything as usual. I see both other people and myself as separate. I identify with the bodyperson, then. If I don't listen to the sadness this brings....if I resist the lostness.....and continue to go with the straining inside...then usually something "slaps" me into being aware of what is going on. If i still resist - something will happen that is too painful to ignore.
But when the shine is perceived......oh, ....; being everywhere; highlighting everything;.....then I still see all the bodies....but there are no "people" to attach them to. The shine is all. The shine is the unifying fact. The shine is the only thing real. Everything else is just....paintwork. It is like being all alone in the world - and not feel lonely at all. Everything is just as it should be. Nothing is wrong. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 1:02:15 PM
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| shiny pennies are real too |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 1:46:40 PM
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Hi Meg:
Oh, yeah....especially those with 'Mint' freshness! LOL And they may even be quite valuable...as described below:
What's So Special About the 1943 Copper Penny?
"According to the American Numismatic Association, the 1943 copper-alloy cent is one of the most idealized and potentially one of the most sought-after items in American numismatics. Nearly all circulating pennies at that time were struck in zinc-coated steel because copper and nickel were needed for the Allied war effort.
40 1943 copper-alloy cents are known to remain in existence. Coin experts speculate that they were struck by accident when copper-alloy 1-cent blanks remained in the press hopper when production began on the new steel pennies.
A 1943 copper cent was first offered for sale in 1958, bringing more than $40,000. A subsequent piece sold for $10,000 at an ANA convention in 1981. The highest amount paid for a 1943 copper cent was $82,500 in 1996.
Because of its collector value, the 1943 copper cent has been counterfeited by coating steel cents with copper or by altering the dates of 1945, 1948, and 1949 pennies.
The easiest way to determine if a 1943 cent is made of steel, and not copper, is to use a magnet. If it sticks to the magnet, it is not copper. If it does not stick, the coin might be of copper and should be authenticated by an expert."
Hari OM!
Doc |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 2:24:40 PM
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Katrine,
Please forgive me, but I was beginning to think you were on drugs or not of sound mind, until I read this:
quote:
The shine is....like the vapour from a boiling kettle......it is what happens when the heat (energy) transforms the matter.....or "melts" the matter.
That is almost verbatim of how I described my experience of what I can only describe as my true Self looking through my body. It was as if I was looking through a heat vapor, but with light. Although, I couldn't describe the light. I had this experience, once, and I'm curious why you have this often. Hmm... maybe I have a lot more work to do, and now that I think of it, "shine" is a more apropos way of describing what objects look like. And in my, one, experience, I could hear the workings of my body, as if it were a machine, with the constant distant ticking sound like that of a bell.
Good for you, Katrine:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Mar 07 2007 2:28:40 PM |
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Ecstatic radiance?
