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 Discussions on AYP Deep Meditation and Samyama
 2 yrs. Not much inner silence, lots of thoughts
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14 Posts

Posted - Oct 14 2022 :  02:16:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hi Friends,
I’ve been practicing AYP steadily for 2.5 years. I must be receiving enough benefits to encourage me to consistently practice, but if so, it’s difficult to pinpoint. Lately I’ve been looking for more evidence that the practices are “working” and have been wondering if I am doing something wrong. Nothing much seems to be happening in DM or Samyama. Still have quite a bit of thoughts. Not sure if I have much inner silence. In the readings there are many examples of people experiencing all kinds of things which makes me doubt what I’ve been doing. I feel pretty much normal, though I don’t seem to have any extreme energy symptoms.

My current practice (about 50 min), 2x daily:
* Asana (5 min)
* SBP (10 min)
* Dynamic Jalandhara (3 min)
* SBP (3-5 min)
* DM (20 min)
* Samyama (5 min)
* YMK (1 breath)
* Rest

I also practice Amroli, intermittent fasting, and Brahmacharya as best I can. I am moderately active in daily life and enjoy my work.

Some questions:
* did I change mantras too soon? Or should i use the 2nd enhancement? I switched to the first enhancement (SHREE SHREE I AM I AM) after about 6 months and have been using it ever since. I seem to remember I AM having a more powerful effect but maybe thats just cause it was new. SHREE I AM seems to be relatively stable now, but I remember reading somewhere that I shouldn’t jump back to a previous mantra or jump ahead too quickly. Not sure I have much inner silence yet, still have thoughts during DM and Samyama.
* How shallow or quick should the breaths be for SBP? Before AYP I was practicing Isha Yoga (Sadhguru’s) Shambhavi mahamudra meditation. My SBP practice seems to mimic that practice. Very quick, shallow, fluttering of the breath. Wondering if that is a problem?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated. Maybe I’m just looking for encouragement.

#128591;, avo


21 Posts

Posted - Oct 14 2022 :  10:18:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Avocado,

I've been practicing AYP for 2.5 years too.
Some more experienced people may give you sharp tip about the technic.
However maybe my experience may help you.
My current practice is actually:

Morning (lighter because lack of time)
Asana (2 min)
SBP (5 min)
DM (20 min)

Asana (10 min)
SPB (5 min)
DM(20 min)
Samyana (5 min)

I started samyana 1 month ago

I think that we have to let go of "a lot of thing": our expectation, even our hope and maybe our attachment to the ayp technic.
Try to have one or two day off with practice, if you feel any craving sensation, maybe you have let go a little some things about the practice.
yes, there is a paradox here but maybe it is just a balance to find.
Maybe we have to practice just like we brush our teeth. we have to remember it is just a sort of internal wash and we may care not to put to much expectation particularly during the practice.
Hope, dream, expectation may rise outside the practice in the everyday life.

Maybe there is a "tension" you have to let go...

hope that will help you!

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85 Posts

Posted - Oct 14 2022 :  5:58:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

it's good you're not having extreme energy symptoms. That's not what to aim for. Rather aim for a stable and balanced practice that is integrated into daily life.

I have also switched quite early to the next mantra, even earlier than you. I did so because it seemed to work better. After another year I already switched again to an even longer one and I stayed there since. For me, it was a good choice. I wouldn't start to have doubts about that but rather trust and be confident with what you are doing atm.
Also, thoughts during the practice are normal and OK and will show up. Once you realize you're off, come back to the mantra. All good.

Inner silence will come. One quality it has for me is patience. You can let go of your expectations of what "effect" the practices have. Have trust that they are working and enjoy the process of practicing. Things will happen. Anything present is just one step in your individual process and it will pass.
Even before your practice, you were in a process, which you are now accelerating.

The breath in SBP should be slow. Fully empty your lungs. Take a deep breath in moving up. Then slowly exhale moving down. You might use ujjay breath for exhalation to elongate. Do it slowly but stay in a range where it is comfortable. You might notice during your practice that you are able to do slower and slower.

There is a different practice from normal SBP described in AYP called Spinal Bhastrika. There you would go at a faster pace. Read the corresponding lessons for more info. However, note that this is a different practice.

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140 Posts

Posted - Oct 14 2022 :  10:52:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Avocado,

I'll jump in and join the club, about 2,5 years for me too.

The guru is in you but for me at this moment, samyama seems to be the sweet spot. I see you have 5 minutes samyama, you can add 5 more repeating a sutra of choice or feature in the inquiry style: 'i thought-who am I'.

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2105 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2022 :  01:26:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome back, Avacado!

I remember when you posted a while ago, you were unsettled and wrestling with issues, have you found stability since? Your current practice discipline and strength suggests you have, bravo for that! I would not worry too much about “fireworks” (for me, conductivity happened three and a half years in, results may vary), but if your Bhakti and system are strong, you can increase jalandhara, YMK, or like loveandlight suggests, adding spinal bastrika.

SBP should be a done at a slower relaxed pace, gently tracing the spine with your attention. During this practice you are preparing your mind to empty and come to stillness, you are adjusting your seat according to what your body suggests, you are using this practice as a bridge to DM. For me, when I find quiet and openness, the mantra arises naturally from my solar center and I follow it in and outward.

I was at the full mantra for many years (starting enhancements around the same time you did) and my inner guru suggested earlier this year to simplify back to AYAM, a profound, well-timed change for me. I had initially moved on from AYAM because I felt I had outgrown it; funny how interior circumstances can change over time. In your case, I would give any enhancement at least a years time to reveal what it is or isn’t providing you.

Sometimes you can find inner silence simply by asking it for it. In your rest after practice is the perfect time to try because you have spent the prior half hour or so seeking it. While is this quiet, open, restful state (self) inquire “where is the silence here?” and continue to be quiet and open for any report in the moments that follow.

You are doing great, stay the course!
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491 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2022 :  03:41:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Avocado, I am 3.5 years into my practice, a routine similar to yours. I progressed to the full enhancement at about 2 years and have enjoyed it. I don't know how things would have been otherwise. I think the deeper issue here is about finding peace with where you are. It does sound like you are relatively peaceful. Many people who post on this forum share troubling stories of excess. It is certainly better to have things less dramatic, however, I understand your position. I often frame it as the "chump problem". Who wants to keep doing the same thing for years and look back feeling disappointed having wasted so much time with no results. It's like committing years to a relationship and having regret it didn't bear fruit. Ultimately yoga, relationships and many endeavors in life have to be lived and enjoyed as they evolve. Placing judgements after the fact only leads to suffering. I do relate to your struggle as I have been preoccupied some with "results". I've been fortunate to have some interesting scenery on the way, which encourages me to keep going. I have reread Yogani's teachings 3 times over the years and pick up new insights each time through. If you continue to have a busy mind you may pick up some tips on the way. I recall on the second reading I read about Navi Kriya. Somehow that fell below the radar. Adding that simple practice super charged my samayama practice, similar to how SBP can prime you for DM. Spinal bastrika likewise can really get energy moving.
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14 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2022 :  7:44:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Jean, Light&love, Wil, Dogboy, and interpaul, Thank you all for the loving guidance!

I realize I made a typo in my practice outline. Following Jalandhara, i do practice Spinal Bastrika (not SBP) for 3-5 minutes. This is the practice I have a question about. Is it okay if my breath becomes VERY quick and shallow, like a quick fluttering? This is a habit i picked up from a previous yoga practice (shambhavi mahamudra from Isha / Sadhguru). Seems to work for me as it is kind of wired into my nervous system, but wondering if i should exert effort trying to unlearn it if i am doing the practice correctly?

“Maybe there is a "tension" you have to let go...” I suspect this is probably always the case! Yes, I tend to be pretty intense about discipline and health, including ayp, and you may be right about finding some benefit in cultivating some flexibility.

Thanks for sharing your progression of mantra. I think youre right about cultivating “patience.” I dont want to get somewhere as much as i want to be fully “here,” though i am very much prone to attempting the former! “Trust and be confident in what youre doing” is excellent advice. I will take this to heart BEFORE i try changing things too much.

You are not the first person to recommend taking a look at Samyama. Right now it does feel like something i just add on the end of my practice. I will give this some more intention and perhaps re-read the lessons on it.

Hello! I remember your guidance during that time :) Yes, it was quite a bumpy time for me, and i am grateful to say things have stabilized. I attribute that to the help from this community (including yours), sticking with my practices, and the love from a partner. That last one has particularly helped me balance my sexual energy. Thanks for your suggestions here about inner silence, and sharing your own progression with the mantra. I will also try asking for silence, that resonates. Some more intention during rest seems to be missing for me.

“finding peace with where you are.” So difficult to live this! thanks for your suggestions about re-reading the lessons and Navi Kriya (which i also must have missed! :)

Thank you all for your love and guidance. Deep gratitude for you all and this community. Enjoy your life adventures and practices!


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1491 Posts

Posted - Oct 17 2022 :  07:54:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Avocado,

That routine is quite heavy with more kundalini- stimulating practices (energetic) than inner silence. This can lead to more mental noise.

My experience of bastrika (and yes, if I recall correctly breath is quick and shallow) is that it releases lots of thoughts.

The general rule is too much DM may give rise to mental dullness. Too much SBP & other kundalini-stirring practices may give rise to excessive kundalini-associated challenges and mental noise.


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United Kingdom
4252 Posts

Posted - Oct 17 2022 :  1:39:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
How shallow or quick should the breaths be for SBP? Before AYP I was practicing Isha Yoga (Sadhguru’s) Shambhavi mahamudra meditation. My SBP practice seems to mimic that practice. Very quick, shallow, fluttering of the breath. Wondering if that is a problem?

Hi avocado,

If in doubt, go back to the lessons. This is from the instructions for Spinal Breathing Pranayama in lesson 41:

"Sit comfortably with back support, and close your eyes just as you do when you meditate. Now, keeping your mouth closed, breathe in and out slowly and deeply through your nose, but not to the extreme. Be relaxed and easy about it, breathing as slowly and deeply as possible without discomfort. There is no need to be heroic. Work your muscles so each breath begins in your belly and fills you up through your chest to the top of your collarbones, and then comes back down slowly." [Yogani]

The speed and depth of the breath can change over time, during the practice sessions, but that will happen automatically, if it happens at all.

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836 Posts

Posted - Oct 17 2022 :  1:54:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Avocado,

I agree with Sey: If you feel that there are too many thoughts, you could reduce the energetic practices in favor on the stillness-focus practices (DM and samyama).

It is normal to still have thoughts during practices, sometimes even a lot of thoughts. Thoughts are what the mind makes. They are like clouds on a clear sky. The clouds come and go, and they do not change the nature of the sky. Thoughts come and go, and they do not change the screen of inner silence.

As about all the Kundalini problems you read about in the forum, it is good to keep in mind that there is a very small number of people who are experiencing them. Judging by all the people who have come to AYP classes and retreats, maybe 5% reported some kundalini symptoms interfering with practices. Most people practice without many fireworks. They may never post anything in the forum. Kundalini problems are not a requirement on the spiritual path.

Having doubts is part of the path. I would even say that there is a sign of progress. If you read about the life of mystics, many went through a period of doubts. They did not quit. A friend, a long-time meditator in a different tradition, told me recently that for the first 10 years of practice she did not notice any effect. It would not be that long with an AYP practice.

Thank you for sharing.
The guru is in you.
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14 Posts

Posted - Oct 18 2022 :  04:04:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Sey, Christi, and Blanche!

I may try experimenting with reducing the energetic practices in favor of DM & Samyama.

As Blanche said “having doubts is part of the path.” I have tried other systems before coming to AYP (jois ashtanga and sadhguru Isha yoga) and so while it DID seem to work for me to question those systems and try AYP, I’m hoping AYP is here to stay. I think I remember yogani saying in the lessons to “keep digging,” and that is what I intend to do!

Thanks for hearing my questions and sharing some thoughts and encouragements. Wishing you all the best in your own practices.

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59 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2022 :  11:00:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
On SBP I would suggest slowing the exhalation compared to the inhalation. Not a lot, just 3-4 seconds or so. As an example, If the inhale is 4-5 seconds, make the exhalation around 7-8 seconds, or whatever is most comfortable to you. Clinical breath research has shown that the ideal range for stimulating the vegal nerve is less than 7 breaths per minute. From my own experience, this knowledge has been invaluable for improving my SBP practice.

Edited by - lateralus on Oct 28 2022 01:59:30 AM
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