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 Tantra - A Holistic View of Spiritual Development
 Pelvic area during stimulation
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Frederikroland

Denmark
5 Posts

Posted - Apr 16 2022 :  9:36:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hello :-)

I have a challenge in my journey on learning to separate ejaculation from orgasm. I hope some of you can help me with this.
When I stimulate my lingam - the muscle (bulbocavernosus) is twitching frequently and it seems like this is the muscle that is responsible for ejaculation - which makes it hard for me to let the energy move.
I have been trained in locking the gate. But this method seems to be quite hard if the pelvic floor is already tense/tight? So to lock the gate and move the energy upwards, one must first relax completely in the pelvic floor and then lock the gate when the orgasm is starting?

I am interested in hearing how some of you approach this?

Also I want to share my experience with Kundalini:

10th of January 2020 during a meditation I felt extremely anxious especially in my stomach (solar plexus area) and my mind.
My mind was telling me to keep breathing through the nose like they instruct in the youtube videos ;). But because of the feeling of anxiety was so intense I had this intuition that I needed to let go now. So I started to drop my jaw and just breathe like a horse running. When I did this. My body started to tingle and my pelvic floor (especially the area around anus) started pump and a huuuuuge orgasm arrived. The energy also moved quickly up through my spine to my brain. And I was in the middle of something very ecstatic. It lasted for some minutes. And afterwards I was very unaware of what just happen. Today I know it was a kundalini experience. And this experience have opened a whole new realm for me.
So. in these times. I can feel my body all the time, like an orgasm is about to hit me any moment and when I decide to stimulate my self through touch of lingam the tension in my pelvic area seems to build up quickly and the energy gets stuck in this area. But my mind knows that It can move because I have experienced it and I remember this.
Which also makes me crave the experience and this I have a hard time to deal with.

What are you thoughts on this?

Best
Frederik

Christi

United Kingdom
4039 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2022 :  09:22:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Frederik,

Welcome to the forums!

There is no need to separate orgasm from ejaculation during Tantric sex. It is difficult and not especially useful. It is much more useful to learn to be pre-orgasm, and to remain pre-orgasmic for the duration of tantric sexual practice. This is a lot easier to do and has far more wide-reaching benefits over the long term. You can read about how to do that here:

Lesson T4 - The Holdback Method - A Stairway to Heaven

With this method, there is no need to be concerned about anything that is happening, or not happening, at the pelvic floor.

With regards to kundalini experiences, it is very common for people to want to have the experiences back again. It is a form of attachment to past experiences, which is temporary and will pass as your spiritual practices evolve.


Christi
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Frederikroland

Denmark
5 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2022 :  1:09:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Christi:)

Okay. I have been practicing holding back method also for a long time and with good results of having ejaculation control and feeling good states of energy levels.
But my pelvic area and tan tien become full or energy also that doesn't seem to move. I know that these areas can be "unlocked" and the energy can flow better in the body. I have felt it sometimes when being very very relaxed in my nervous system.
Maybe I just have to be patience with kundalini working on karma and blockages.
Thank you for the knowledge
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Christi

United Kingdom
4039 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2022 :  2:23:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Frederik,

Yes, the blocking technique is a good start, but it has several limitations, especially as some pranic energy is still lost. It is really kindergarten level in terms of tantric sex, and the sooner we are able to move beyond it, the better.

As we progress with spiritual practices, and pre-orgasmic tantric sexual practices, gradually all the blockages will be removed, and prana will become free-flowing up through the body. It does take time, so we have to be cultivating patience and equanimity above all else.


Christi
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interpaul

USA
374 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2022 :  5:50:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Frederik, Christi has given you very useful information. He has helped guide me on this topic over the years. I thought I'd share some of my experience as it may help give you perspective as I know exactly the challenges you are struggling with and have learned a lot on this topic after three years of practicing AYP. First of all I initially got interested in this topic after a kundalini awakening. This led to my discovery of the Taoist teachings of Mantak Chia. I was unfamiliar with these esoteric teachings and they gave me hope I could master the art of non ejaculatory sex. The idea of being mulitorgasmic with no energy loss seemed to be the holy grail. Having read many posts from similar seekers over the years I realized I wasn't alone in this pursuit. I did learn some stuff from reading Mantak Chia's books but ultimately found these practices created unbalanced energy and I did worry they could cause damage to the perineum (from too much enthusiasm with physical blocking). Ultimately I abandoned these practices after doing a deeper dive online and hearing many stories of people who developed problems doing these practices without a teacher. After discovering AYP fortuitously I was a bit disappointed with this idea of staying preorgasmic. It has taken me a couple years to slowly "understand" through experience what many of the descriptions point to. As an example, the term preorgasmic changes over time. Yogani speaks of a destination in which one experiences 24/7 ecstatic bliss. Whether he is an optimist or a rare individual who has achieved this seemingly magical state, what he does teach in his lessons is the path to develop "ecstatic conductivity". This is interestingly not the most important part of the teachings. Developing "inner silence" "the witness" is the real goal and the first destination on this stable path towards enlightenment. Ecstatic conductivity, i.e. kundalini energy is a very powerful force. Having come to AYP with other practices under my belt I discovered ecstatic conductivity rather quickly. A blessing and a curse as one needs to cultivate "inner silence" to stabilize the path. This idea that is mentioned both in Taoist practices and AYP of moving the energy up the spinal nerve is conceptual to someone who hasn't felt it. Since you have experienced this energy you are highly motivated to learn how to direct this energy for the best possible outcomes. Your enthusiasm for focusing on this compelling energy, can serve as a strong driving force for you or ultimately limit your progress. I strongly encourage you if you haven't begun the main lessons from the beginning as Yogani has outlined a safe path which will ultimately lead you to what you are seeking. It will be very different from what you imagine. It is not a linear path and it can be challenging for individuals such as you and I who have focused on the energy end of the teachings. By cultivating the inner silence you will find yourself in a place where you can with "attention and intention" (to quote Dogboy) draw this energy from your root to your third eye. That experience is essentially the orgasmic energy without ejaculation you seek. Knowing you have access to that will open you up to many potentialities you can't imagine given the more typical male orgasm focused mindset. These teachings ultimately point the way to letting go, i.e. releasing your attachment to an outcome. The male brain is goal oriented. It has a purpose. Without the sexual drive our species would not survive, yet it is a biological drive that causes much frustration for many men. In my experience Yogani's lessons are the most clear and helpful instructions that have helped me to turn this powerful energy into a source of spiritual change for me rather than a biological trap.
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Frederikroland

Denmark
5 Posts

Posted - Apr 20 2022 :  10:55:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Salam Christi and Paul

Just to be clear. Im not talking about the finger blocking. It is the small contraction that can be made with PC muscle. Im just a bit confused with this. Because some teachings say - mulabandha during sex and some others suggest that the energy can't flow if the pelvic floor is contracted and tight.
My journey with these teachings started with me having premature ejaculation and I have had long periods with no sex because I couldn't control my muscles in pelvic area. These twitches would just happen as soon as I got stimulated on lingam. But this is some years ago now and I have learned and experienced many new things with my body. But the experiences with premature ejaculation still sits deep in me.

I get what you share Christi. I have an intuition that my idea of having orgasm through stopping ejaculation is more a compensation. So I will shift my focus.
After the kundalini experience I can feel my body a lot especially blockages. but If I surrender to the sensations I feel this moving force in me, like a wave.
My nervous system is getting rewired but I still notice the old patterns. I'm used to think - sensations in body - "Now you need to do something with it" - now masturbate and only having one thing in mind ;).

Which directs me to what you are saying Paul. Thank you for sharing this resonating knowledge I am glad to hear you have met this path.

I can relate to the biological drive. It is gradually changing after kundalini experience. But it has been a struggle to let go of wanting to take action on pleasure and sensations in my body. More and more in deep meditation I can let go of this.
My journey started as mentioned with premature ejaculation. So I started to practice semen retention and learning about tantric techniques such as using PC muscle etc. I combined this with asanas such as Uddiyana bandha, cobra, shoulderstand, bhadrasana. I also did kegels but this sort of made my PE worse.

I will start digging in the beginning lessons from Yogani. Thanks a bunch



Edited by - Frederikroland on Apr 20 2022 1:32:57 PM
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Dogboy

USA
1934 Posts

Posted - Apr 20 2022 :  2:04:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
I can relate to the biological drive. It is gradually changing after kundalini experience. But it has been a struggle to let go of wanting to take action on pleasure and sensations in my body. More and more in deep meditation I can let go of this.
My journey started as mentioned with premature ejaculation. So I started to practice semen retention and learning about tantric techniques such as using PC muscle etc. I combined this with asanas such as Uddiyana bandha, cobra, shoulderstand, bhadrasana. I also did kegels but this sort of made my PE worse.


Welcome Frederik

Those who do not meditate or do asanas are having the experience of kundalini pleasure each and every time they engage in sexual acts and the “little death” of orgasm. Pleasure is the driver for the continuation of our species. The orgasm most likely is the reason there are not premature kundalini awakenings left and right. For those of us on the path of liberation, when the inner dynamics of energy and silence are understood and explored with devotional intentions, we do need to regard pleasure as a side effect and not the goal in and of itself. This is not an easy shift, we are human after all, but having inner witness to examine this struggle and new framework can help get us to that place, through discipline, patience, and the gradual preparation of the body to handle these powerful practices. It is also important to be loving and forgiving of yourself, and expect (and respect) two steps forward and one step back.
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interpaul

USA
374 Posts

Posted - Apr 20 2022 :  6:16:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Frederick, My experience is the capacity to contract the PC muscle to move the energy upward does not cause congestion but relieves it. I had met with a wise Taoist teacher years ago and he describe the subtle contraction as if one kisses the seat with the perineum. That slight mulbhanda type contraction can be enough to redirect the energy upward (although it took me much trial and error to learn how to do this. Even the best instruction book can't describe these types of sensations and associated internal movements of muscles and energy completely). I have learned to direct the energy with my mind with the slightest of contractions. This is a bit like Yogani's teachings on sambhavi, once the "clunky phase" passes these practices flow quite easily. Full disclosure, I do not have a willing partner so my experiences are all from a solo tantric perspective. Although this is a fruit of the practice, it is also a burden. What I mean is the desire to express these pleasurable sensations builds with all of these practices designed to transform the pranic energy towards higher function. In the early phase of my explorations I had too much enthusiasm and found myself have a panic attack not knowing how to handle my super charged system. I can now see this energy as a vital force that has so much potential and I also realize the reason for all the caution in the teachings is it seemingly takes years for the changes to gradually happen. Beyond the experiential level I believe there is a real rewiring of our brains with persistence in these efforts. The desire and pleasurable sensations is high motivation for the transformation but it can also can cause a detour. I often think of the mice given the option of eating or pushing a lever and getting cocaine. They all starve themselves. Having said all that, that was my path. I do sense that is not a safe path for most people. Looking back on my 3 years of AYP experience I have a great appreciation for many aspects of Yogani's teachings as they avoid many of the trappings (although interestingly he admits his personal journey was a complicated one filled with much energy overload as he fictionally tells in his first book, The Secrets of Wilder). The simple practice of spinal breathing pranayama, I've come to believe, rewires the mind to move the energy up without any attention to pelvic floor muscles. I wish you luck on your journey.
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Frederikroland

Denmark
5 Posts

Posted - Apr 24 2022 :  12:18:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Dogboy

Thank you:)

What exactly does the little death of orgasm means? Are you referring to the "peak" orgasm? (Ejaculation an clitoris orgasm).

I remember some years ago when I started to feel depleting effects of ejaculating every once a week, I said to my self, there must be more to the human body. So from my heart I deeply placed the intention to discover more from life. I think it is also a line on the path, to feel what doesn't come from love and then manifest change within.






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Frederikroland

Denmark
5 Posts

Posted - Apr 25 2022 :  1:04:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Paul,
Wonderful information on the PC muscle contraction - thank you. Makes more sense to kiss something to release it.
Indeed. No book can teach one to feel subtle sensations. It is a "out of thoughts" experience. Which books potentially can detour. Also. In my experience seeking to not understand everything from a story or an idea, makes it more easy to feel energy movement in body.
I will look more into the spinal breathing. I haven't done that. I have tried microcosmic orbit a bit, but haven't practiced it consistently.
I also have experienced too much energy in my system to handle. Kundalini have to be grounded. Qigong is something I might look more into for grounding also.

Thank you for all this readings and good luck to you also!


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Christi

United Kingdom
4039 Posts

Posted - Apr 25 2022 :  3:30:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
I will look more into the spinal breathing. I haven't done that. I have tried microcosmic orbit a bit, but haven't practiced it consistently.
I also have experienced too much energy in my system to handle. Kundalini have to be grounded. Qigong is something I might look more into for grounding also.


Hi Frederik,

If you are experiencing too much energy in your system, then it could be best to avoid spinal breathing pranayama, or any other form of pranayama, including the microcosmic orbit. This is because pranayama practices will increase the amount of prana in the body, and so, may well make the situation worse.

Tantrik sexual practices will also increase the amount of energy in the body, so these would be best avoided as well for the time being. It would be best to stay with meditation only, and focus on grounding, until things settle down.


Christi

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Dogboy

USA
1934 Posts

Posted - Apr 25 2022 :  10:25:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
What exactly does the little death of orgasm means?


It’s been said that orgasm is like the experience of a little death, obviously short of the soul leaving the body.
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