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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 06 2021 : 11:45:16 PM
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My sensitivity to Kundalini energy flow (which I take to be that described as ecstatic conductivity in Yogani terms) is so marked and so easily induced that I feel called to share it in this forum in case my Sadhana has gone ‘off track’. Whereas it required Yogani’s exercises originally (six years ago), now it is induced instantly and intensely by just a low hum (vocalised), or breathing in slowly while ‘feeling’ the air go through my nasal passages, bronchial tube and into my lungs, or by just imagining that I am breathing in through one nostril, drawing up - through the same side of my spine - the Kundalini energy from the base of my spine, holding the breath for a few seconds and then breathing out through the other nostril, taking the energy back down the other side of my spine. In the latter method, full intense Kundalini flow is initiated immediately the first inhalation is begun. A related phenomenon seems to be that experienced whenever I wake from sleep, be it at night in bed, or in my lounge chair following inadvertent naps (fairly frequent these days, being a nonagenarian), when I become immediately aware of the same flow of energy, this having seemingly been active while asleep, and continuing when awake, if allowed to by my attention. Any distraction terminates it immediately.
All this to be regarded only as an example of Yogani’s ‘scenery’, I have concluded, and as such, not particularly important in itself, but I feel it must be closely connected with the deepening spiritual understanding I seem to have had (so late in life) in parallel with the ever-increasing ease of Kundalini flow induction.This deeper understanding, in verbal terms, seems to align pretty closely with the writings of Yogani, as well as those of SantatGamana in his recent short books in The Real Yoga series, and also with those of Teja Anand, Brian Jones and Jennifer Jay Matthews, for example, on Quora. In my ordinary state, such beliefs/insights seem pretty far-fetched (so, too, most other religious/spiritual ‘beliefs’). But my ordinary state is simply my lower, everyday, self, which is just the manifestation of the life-long accrual of personality characteristics arising from my genetic inheritance and the general circumstances of my life, particularly those experienced in childhood. It, my everyday self, has all sorts of opinions/beliefs about itself (the ego) and the world in general and, indeed, of ‘spiritual truths’. This is irrelevant. The Self (God within/the Atman/Witness/Pure Consciousness) just Is, without doubts, opinions, or ‘beliefs’, or other attributes of any kind. Scepticism or certitude do not apply. In my deep meditation practice twice daily, I try to quieten the mind sufficiently for this to manifest, at least for brief periods.
I would appreciate forum members’ comments on any of this. My feeling is that any apparent differences in interpretation are likely to arise more from the inadequacy of words (and the varying idiosyncratic meanings attached to them) than from the substance of my experience, which I would anticipate to be shared by many AYP forum members to a greater or lesser extent. Nevertheless, from many points of view, it seems important to share both my experience and interpretation with members of the forum in general for any helpful discussion it may arouse.
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2021 : 5:40:33 PM
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| Walter, Thanks for sharing your perspective. I can relate to much of what you share here. It is hard to rank kundalini intensity and, in the end, irrelevant. I see this energy as a reminder of my inner vitality and a confirmation this neurobiological transformation is real. It helps me to integrate these experiences when my "ordinary" self judges or doubts. I also have fully embraced Yogani's description of this as "scenery". He both cautions you to not spend to much time interpreting or dwelling on these energies but to enjoy them safely. I believe Yogani gives an analogy of this energy something like 220 volt being entered into a 110 volt system. It takes time for the system to gradually acclimate to the increasing current. I think of this supercharged energy as a reservoir to get stuff done in the world. When fully charged we have greater capacity to share (outpouring of divine love). I would encourage you to continue to work on letting go of the judgemental part of yourself so as to allow yourself to fully manifest. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2021 : 06:41:47 AM
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Yes, there is a deepening of spiritual understanding that is related to an active kundalini and increase in Inner Silence. The writings in the Bible or other scriptures and holy books will suddenly make a lot more sense. Plus reading these will immediately stir Bhakti and kundalini in you. Speaking about it does the same. Even looking at a photo of Buddha or Jesus or any other enlightened being will trigger something in you or simply still your busy mind.
Sey 
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2021 : 11:53:46 AM
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Interpaul and SeySorciere: Thank you both very much for your kind and helpful replies, I really do appreciate them. I had not had any idea of the commonness (or otherwise) of my experiences and welcome the reassurances you have given me.
There is such a wealth of experience already recorded on the forum, only a tiny bit of which I have been able to avail myself of so far. Rather than searching through past entries, I wonder if I may simply ask if either of you, or anyone else, would have any advice you could give regarding any personal methods/techniques you have found helpful in enabling you to reach and/or to deepen Inner Silence, both in relatively calm times and also under more challenging emotional or physical circumstances.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2021 : 12:02:12 PM
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Dear Walter,
Yogani has it all very nicely covered in the lessons. Stick with him for simple and effective techniques. 
For confirmation or explanation with regards to an experience, you can ask in the forums and everyone will pitch in.
Sey
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2021 : 5:28:12 PM
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Walter, It is a blessing having access to this record of many fellow spiritual travelers experiences here.
quote:
any advice you could give regarding any personal methods/techniques you have found helpful in enabling you to reach and/or to deepen Inner Silence
Having read all of the expanded lessons from start to finish my understanding is the deep meditation is the fundamental path to inner silence. Many of the other practices increase the energetic component and are complimentary but doing the deep meditation consistently twice daily will get you to a place of inner silence and calm most directly. Unfortunately this takes time, years for most. Being in your 90s I can imagine your desire to speed up the process. One practice that I find has helped me is samyama. It starts as a very subtle letting go of words in silence but expands into something you take into your daily life as a way of being. If you haven't added samyama to your twice daily practice I would consider doing so. If you are doing any of the other practices that increase your ecstatic energies, as you allude to in your post, you might consider scaling back on those. Early in my practices I enthusiastically embraced everything as the ecstatic experiences are very compelling. Many times Yogani notes the risks of overdoing it on these practices as they can actually set you back on your path to inner silence. As inner silence slowly grows in me I find the ecstatic energy fuels the inner silence. Reach out with other questions. There are many experienced practioners here who I'm sure have additional wisdom to share. |
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2021 : 11:13:11 AM
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SeySorciere:
Yes, thank you. Sound advice. Yogani’s techniques are solely responsible for whatever level I may have reached so far and my gratitude for this is profound. Guess I was hoping to hear of a few personal experiences of any particular technique which have helped others to go deeper into Inner Silence (and - especially - to prolong such periods), particularly in challenging circumstances. However, I appreciate that there are no short cuts, really. and that the main driving force will always be the strength of one’s own desire/need. As you say, Yogani has already laid out in full detail what’s required, and it is up to oneself to persevere as advised.
Interpaul:
You have read my needs and motivation perfectly, and I much appreciate your response and suggestion. I did, in the beginning, six years ago, adopt Yogani’s suggestion of 10 minutes SBP, 20 minutes deep meditation and 5-10 minutes Samyama in that order. However, Kundalini energy flow became so intense during SBP that I felt it was impeding my ability to reach stillness in meditation, so switched them round, now beginning with meditation. But then, after the following SBP period, the required stillness for Samyama did not seem possible, so I left this out of the program. These days, after meditation (30-40 minutes, twice per day) I induce Kundalini energy flow for a very brief period (2-5 minutes) mainly because I felt it was an important aspect of the practice, probably providing energy in some unknown way for an increase in spiritual understanding. But this may well be the wrong approach and it would seem better (for the time being anyway) to dispense with Kundalini activation (or practice it briefly at other times during the day), and replace it with Samyama after deep meditation, as you suggest. Thank you very much for this constructive suggestion, precisely what I was hoping for. And yes, indeed, there is such a wealth of experience and wisdom out there; we have so much to thank Yogani for.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2021 : 1:48:33 PM
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quote:
I did, in the beginning, six years ago, adopt Yogani’s suggestion of 10 minutes SBP, 20 minutes deep meditation and 5-10 minutes Samyama in that order. However, Kundalini energy flow became so intense during SBP that I felt it was impeding my ability to reach stillness in meditation, so switched them round, now beginning with meditation. But then, after the following SBP period, the required stillness for Samyama did not seem possible, so I left this out of the program.
Hi Walter,
Just to mention, there is no requirement to experience inner silence during meditation. In the lessons, Yogani encourages people not to judge a meditation session by how much inner silence is experienced. The only requirement for meditation is to follow the procedure of returning to the mantra, every time we realise we are off it. What happens then, is what happens.
Panning out to the bigger picture of spiritual awakening, lasting spiritual understanding (moksha) is not possible with an impurified subtle nervous system. The impurities in the nervous system are the veils that obscure clear perception. So, this is why the energetic aspect of the path is necessary. When a lot of purification is taking place in the subtle nervous system, it can throw up a lot of emotions, memories, random thoughts and so on. So, we can be going through a powerful period of inner purification, whilst at the same time, not experiencing inner silence in meditation. And this is fine and is a sign that good things are happening.
If you find yourself in this situation, you can simply continue. It won't last forever and gradually the energetic pathways in the body will become wider and become better able to handle the flows of spiritual energy and the mind will settle down to stillness and silence. Going through this stage of purification can be frustrating, especially if we have the idea that this is not supposed to happen. But it is well worth persevering.
If the flows of energy are so strong that things become uncomfortable or painful, then the thing to do would be to self-pace by reducing the time of pranayama practice. So, you would keep SBP in the same place in the sequence, but reduce it from 10 minutes to 5 minutes in each session, for example. If this is still too much, you could reduce it further, to 3 minutes, or two minutes, say. You may also want to reduce the time of Deep Meditation as well if this is happening, as this practice also has an energetic component. So, you could reduce DM from 20 mins to 15, or 10 minutes for example.
There are no minimum timings for this process, and there was a time where I reduced my SBP practice down to just a few breaths.
So, in this way, we can maintain all of the practices in the correct order, simply reducing timings to find a stable level of practice. Once we have found a stable level, we stay there for some time (weeks or months rather than days), and then if we wish, we can gradually increase timings again, edging back up gradually to a full routine.
By keeping the practices in the suggested order, it also means that we are always practicing DM right before samyama, so the mind is being brought to stillness in preparation for samyama practice.
One more thing to mention is that spinal breathing pranayama is not simply a practice to get energy flowing in the body. It does a great deal more than that. It is designed to purify the subtle nervous system in a very specific way and to produce energetic openings in a specific order. So, it can't simply be replaced by something like the omkara nada, or sensing the air flowing through the nostrils. These things are powerful, but not effective substitutes for the practice of spinal breathing. Not sure if you were saying that you had replaced SBP with these things in your original post, but if you have, then ensuring that you have some element of spinal breathing in your practice would be a good move.
In terms of techniques that are helpful in increasing inner silence, I would say retreats. You can do this in a group, or on your own. Take a weekend off, or a week off, and spend the time focussing on your spiritual practices. You can go up to three or four sittings a day in retreat mode, which means moving towards four or five hours of practice a day. The effect is very powerful. When I first took up AYP practice I would spend weeks at a time in retreat mode, in silence, practising 4-times a day.
Yogani has written a book on retreat practice here.
You may also find this commentary on the importance of the energetic aspect of spiritual awakening helpful:
What is yoga?
Christi |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2021 : 2:48:19 PM
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Hi Walter,
As you point out, inner silence is the key element on the path. Regular spiritual practice clarifies and increases our perception of the inner silence. However, silence is everywhere, all the time. It is everything. It is like the water in the ocean, there all the time, no matter how the light plays on its surface. We recognize it as we turn our attention to it just as you mention, and this recognition stabilizes as we realize that we are it: We are this silent stillness. We know the silence not because we perceive it, but because we are it.
We recognize ourselves as the silence when a tipping point in the process of spiritual transformation is reached. In the same time, an intellectual understanding may prime us to this realization. Regular spiritual practice gives reliable results, as you write. Doing additional session in a group (such as AYP global meditation group, which meets virtually) or by yourself as Christi suggested is helpful.
An open heart is the cornerstone of awakening. An open heart lives for the happiness of the Beloved. When we love, the Divine looks at us through the eyes of our loved ones, may that be a child, a spouse, a friend, a pet, a plant, a garden, our planet, etc. Caring for others, praying for them like in samyama or through other prayers, sending them good wishes like in metta meditation are all ways to cultivate an open heart. Nothing is foreign to any of us, nothing can be put aside – we are all of it. Music, art, poetry could all the ways to open our heart. When the heart is pure, the Divine cannot help reveal Itself.
As about spiritual practices, the alternative nostril breathing you describe is similar to a practice in Tibetan yoga meant to balance the energies and open the central channel (Sushumna). This breathing practice is also done before the main meditation practice.
Skipping spinal breathing does not mean that the ecstatic conductivity will not be awakened. Meditation alone can lead us all the way on the spiritual path, while stimulating ecstatic conductivity, too. Spinal breathing will accelerate this process. It is acceptable to skip SB if you find it disruptive. It is also a good idea to give it a try again from time to time, maybe just for a couple of minutes before DM. Chances are that at some point, things will shift as they always do, and you will find SB easy and helpful to practice before meditation.
Thank you for sharing and for your practice.
The guru is in you.
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2021 : 2:58:25 PM
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Christi:
Thank you so much for such a considered, constructive and helpful reply.
Yes, I have been inducing Kundalini flow most recently by just feeling (sensing) the breath in my nostrils, nasal passages, bronchi and lungs because it is so immediate, and different from the low hum sound or alternate nostril spinal breathing methods mentioned in my original post in that the kundalini vibration (‘electrical buzz’/ecstatic conductivity) begins in a different region of the body (viz., in the nasal passages approximately level with the ajna chakra) and intensifies in the bronchi and lungs (involving throat and chest chakras?), and then descending, with yet greater intensity) to and/or through the lower chakras, from whence it may be transferred anywhere and for any (voluntary) length of time purely by shift of attention. The intensity is such that a minute or two is long enough. But I take your message about the importance of SBP and it seems essential that I go back to this - which is just as effective and rapid in inducing Kundalini energy flow, but in the opposite direction - for a short period, before beginning deep meditation followed once again by Samyama.
Samyama also seems to be very important here. It was a great mistake to abandon it earlier. I have just re-read Yogani’s lessons on it, and will make it an essential component of my practice again in future. I’m so glad Interpaul brought it to my attention.
Thank you again, everyone, for your extremely helpful suggestions. I am most grateful.
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2021 : 4:10:15 PM
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Hello Blanche:
I very much appreciate your post and the deep insights it expresses, most of which I feel I understand and can connect with. Writing in similar vein - as best I can - is something I like to do for myself to try to give articulate verbal clarity to what I feel I have understood, but fuzzily. I hesitate to contribute in similar fashion here because I do not feel sufficiently qualified to do so. Nevertheless, I am probably in the St Paul’s category of ‘seeing through a glass darkly’ level of spiritual understanding and do feel that I can raise relevant observations and questions, responses to which from forum members would be illuminating. I will reserve these for a later post, Blanche, and am most grateful to you for introducing the opportunity. After all, it is this understanding that we are all seeking (I presume), the practices being tried and proven means towards achieving this.
In regard to the practices, thanks to the help of forum members, including yourself, there has already been a marked improvement with regard to the interference I was experiencing by Kundalini ecstatic conductivity to my ability to reach deeper levels of Inner Silence. For the first time in years I have now been able to revert (from lying on my back) to the crossed-legs sitting position, and follow the recommended sequence of SBP (5 min), ‘I AM’ Meditation (20 min) and Samyama (5 min), preceded by a few basic asanas, with no over-stimulating energy flow being experienced. Everything was very smooth, and a peaceful Inner Silence reached.
I feel sure the problem is cured. As induction of the interfering energy flow is voluntary, this can be excluded from the practices, at least for the time being. (But my instincts are to induce it regularly at other times, if only briefly, on the assumption that this would help keep purified channels open). My sincerest thanks to you all for your invaluable help in this matter..
Further topics related to spiritual understanding are probably best reserved for a different forum, to which I hope to contribute soon.
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2021 : 2:00:40 PM
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Hi Walter,
We are all on a journey. Not sure who is fully qualified to answer spiritual questions, as there seems to be no end of this path. Just like you, for a couple of decades I have felt that I was not qualified to advice anyone when it came to yoga practices. But then something happened, and I did share meditation instructions with someone. Once I said yes once, I felt that I could not say no to anyone. Then a friend asked me to teach a yoga class for the community, so I took a 200 hour yoga teacher training course to try to do a good job. Then I took a 300 hour yoga teacher training (ok, this was more like 1000 hour course  ). The more I learn, the more is to learn. Sharing yoga with other people is just another way of learning. Many times I do not know what I will say during a class, but things come up as people respond to practices. The comical part is that now often someone comes to me and says “You said this and that, and this made a big difference for me, etc.” and I have no memory saying any of that. The practice truly makes the teachings alive, and we receive what we need in the degree that what we are ready to take.
If you are inspired to participate in the forum, this can be another spiritual practice. Sharing our understanding, practices, comments, reading about other people’s experiences and questions do help us and others. Each of us has a unique perspective – the Divine looks through each pair of eyes with a unique viewpoint. So do share if you feel inspired.
As about energy, yes, it is moving with our attention. As the energy surges, this can be distracting. However, it is amazing how fast we adapt to the new way of functioning, and then after a while another level opens up. And the journey continues.
The guru truly is in you.
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2021 : 1:20:58 PM
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Blanche
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words. There is little doubt that had I had my recent experiences thirty, forty or fifty years earlier, I would have felt called to follow a very similar course of action to yours. The fundamental basics of understanding were there; these could be passed to others and further deepened in the process (the proverbial win/win situation). In the present circumstances, there could be no better opportunity for this than to participate more actively in the forum. Thank you for encouraging me in this respect.
With regard to practice, my renewed program has resulted in a strange confusion of individual components, such that my breathing seems naturally to occupy center stage throughout. In SBP, I slowly draw the energy up the spine (mentally, no overt physiological manifestation) with inspiration, and move it down again (frontal course) with expiration. During DM, with normal breathing rate, I mentally pronounce “I” during inspiration, and “AM” during expiration. With Samyama, again with normal breathing rate, I introduce the sutra during the first inspiration (3-4 secs) and drop it for the first expiration and for the following two breaths (about 20 secs in all). Everything seems so ‘harmonious’ - smooth and rhythmic throughout, with distraction by turning thoughts or outside sensations minimal - that I would be sorry to learn that this continuous semi-focus on the breath was inadvisable.
I have a dramatic new observation to report. With the sensation of ecstatic conductivity now removed from the above twice-daily practice (each about 40 mins), I experimented with inducing it midway through the day (between practices) by the method I mentioned before (which I have not read about anywhere, it just ‘presented itself’ spontaneously a few weeks back), that is, by ‘sensing’ the breath (only one inspiration needed) moving in through the nostrils, down the bronchi and into the lungs. An initial pleasant tingling sensation in the nasal passages rapidly developed into a veritable ‘explosion’ of ecstatic sensation throughout my body. I allowed it to continue for a minute or so (quite long enough!), and then easily terminated it - how, I don’t really know, but I think through some voluntary muscular relaxation in the perineum area.
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2021 : 5:28:51 PM
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Walter, I will join Blanche in encouraging you to use this forum to share your experiences as they benefit all, I certainly have taken advantage of this platform to help me on my journey. You never know when your questions and the answers generated help others currently and into the future. I can also acknowledge similar experiences with moving ecstatic energy with my breath. Dogboy once told me its about "intention and attention". After a certain amount of time practicing you become aware you have created certain pathways in the brain that can be easily activated with very little effort. This fits with Yogani's description of changing our neurobiology. I came to AYP with some prior experience with hypnosis. I found I was able to use a word (like a mantra or a sutra) to activate a neurophysiologic process. It's a pretty cool trick when you realize you can access aspects of your neurophysiology at will. We hear stories of monks who can alter their body temperature, heart rate, respiration etc. Some people can get caught up in these siddhis. I certainly have had to work on not becoming too attached to the ecstatic byproducts of my daily practices. Yogani often encourages us to enjoy the benefits, safely. I have come to appreciate the ecstatic energy as a type of psychic fuel that both motivates my behaviors on a very primitive basis and a more nuanced energy that is slowly transforming my way of interacting in the world.
You are correct in noticing these energies are tied to the muscles of the perineum. Yogani does go into discussing this quite a bit in his lessons. At a very basic level SBP trains the brain to move awareness from the root to the ajna. When this is further enhancesd with spinal bastrika (a practice you should avoid at this time given your energy overload state)in which the energy is moved so quickly between these poles so as to nearly make them feel identical. In the beginning one is aware of various contractions or movements in the root that are tied to these ecstatic currents that move up the spinal nerve. This is developed with mulabadhda and other practices discussed in the tantra lessons.
With respect to your breathing techniques, my understanding is Yogani encourages us to not focus on the breathing at all during deep meditation, that is to avoid doing I on the in breath and Am on the outbreath. He encourages one to not focus on avoiding this practice, just to release the focus. The world won't end if you continue doing it the way you are. I have learned over the years to "favor" the practices as Yogani teaches them as he has already vetted the most straightforward and effective way to do these practices. He repeatedly answers questions from many people doing things their own way. In the end he points out he can't be certain of the outcome. I think it is analogous to patient's taking pills in the manner they feel is best rather than how the studies showed the best efficacy. |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2021 : 6:05:42 PM
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quote:
With regard to practice, my renewed program has resulted in a strange confusion of individual components, such that my breathing seems naturally to occupy center stage throughout. In SBP, I slowly draw the energy up the spine (mentally, no overt physiological manifestation) with inspiration, and move it down again (frontal course) with expiration. During DM, with normal breathing rate, I mentally pronounce “I” during inspiration, and “AM” during expiration. With Samyama, again with normal breathing rate, I introduce the sutra during the first inspiration (3-4 secs) and drop it for the first expiration and for the following two breaths (about 20 secs in all). Everything seems so ‘harmonious’ - smooth and rhythmic throughout, with distraction by turning thoughts or outside sensations minimal - that I would be sorry to learn that this continuous semi-focus on the breath was inadvisable.
I have a dramatic new observation to report. With the sensation of ecstatic conductivity now removed from the above twice-daily practice (each about 40 mins), I experimented with inducing it midway through the day (between practices) by the method I mentioned before (which I have not read about anywhere, it just ‘presented itself’ spontaneously a few weeks back), that is, by ‘sensing’ the breath (only one inspiration needed) moving in through the nostrils, down the bronchi and into the lungs. An initial pleasant tingling sensation in the nasal passages rapidly developed into a veritable ‘explosion’ of ecstatic sensation throughout my body. I allowed it to continue for a minute or so (quite long enough!), and then easily terminated it - how, I don’t really know, but I think through some voluntary muscular relaxation in the perineum area.
Hello Walter, welcome! You are well spoken (written) and thoughtful, and your yoga and life perspective is of great value to the forum, I hope you continue to contribute.
Much you have written above is familiar with my experiences. Attention during SBP is indeed matching breath with the action of tracing the shushumna, turning down from the third eye and up at the root. During DM, according to Yogani’s design, no attention should be attached to the breath, any attention to the breath is at the expense of favoring the mantra over all other considerations. That is not a prohibition, but as Yogani often indicates, it is not considered AYP DM to do so. Ultimately we are the drivers of our practice and make decisions based on our knowledge and experiences, therefore to alter the baseline, the consequences are yours to bear.
As in my case with Samyama. Yogani’s design is to gently release the sutra, to “be” in the silence after for fifteen (or so) seconds before releasing it again or releasing the next sutra in a similar manner. Many times during COVID I meditated at a beach in my town (I highly recommend outdoor meditation!) and sutra passing naturally seemed to match the sound of the waves breaking, as they did so at roughly fifteen second intervals. Samyama has always been wavelike to me, ‘interior’ becoming ‘exterior’; with ecstatic influence, passing sutras became an experience felt. While meditating indoors, I discovered that a slow and steady inhalation/exhaustion cycle was also roughly twenty seconds, and I adopted releasing the sutra (as a inner whisper) at the top of this gentle cycle, so that it floats away on the exhale. Again, not as Yogani designed, but reflects to joy and bliss I have endowed it.
As one acclimates ecstatic conductivity, over time arousal becomes extremely easy to access with simple intention/attention, especially (in this yogi) involving my nasal passages and diaphragm. Simply by flaring my nostrils (attention) or filling my lungs to the state of half full/half empty (intention) while doing so does the trick of excitation. This is an energy practice I can access at any time of day, in any setting, with no one the wiser I am practicing yoga in their presence! This is the purpose of EC (and meditation): to excite our Bhakti, to encourage daily discipline, to prepare this temple of ours to handle the hopeful eventuality we burst through the crown and melt down into the heart. Our practices deepen within us the delicious pairing of silence and arousal and we move forward in a manner of stability and comfort, which is experienced different within each of us. To have this playground at my disposal has enhanced my life experience heading into my Golden Years. |
Edited by - Dogboy on Sep 14 2021 9:37:25 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2021 : 6:15:04 PM
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| Interpaul: cross posted! |
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2021 : 12:28:57 PM
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Interpaul and Dogboy.
Thank you both so much for your inspiring replies. They are rich in sound advice and encouragement, in equal measure. There is little doubt we all speak the same language (metaphorically and literally). With regard to my practices,I understand what you both say,and will modify them appropriately. Up till now I have felt relatively alone in my experiences; now I feel that I am coming home. To just say thank you does not seem adequate, but I know you don't need more. This also applies to SeySorciere, Christi and Blanche. We will all interact much from now on, I feel, as also with so many other fellow travellers out there on the same journey. |
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2021 : 5:37:55 PM
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| Walter, I have posted in the past about that feeling of being "alone in my experiences". It reminds me of a time I was travelling in Europe in my college days. One day I arrived into town too late to get a place at the hostel. As a result I didn't hook up with other young people and spent the day alone. I remember a sadness in seeing great works of art and a sunset without having anyone to share with. "Inner sensuality" is an inner experience that is not shared (except eventually through the outpouring of divine love according to Yogani). Many people come to this forum for support with kundalini excess issues. It seems fewer people give voice to the loneliness of the inner journey, especially the positive experiences. It can feel like bragging when written down. As an artist I often wonder if I would do art if I didn't have an audience to view it, even though it gives me great pleasure in the process of creating. I imagine there are very few people in their 90s who have the bandwith to take on what you are doing. Your perspective interests me very much. |
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2021 : 1:13:48 PM
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Thank you Interpaul. Yes, I agree that deep positive emotions experienced when alone also need to be shared if they could be of value to others, or, to borrow the expressive phrase from Gray’s Elegy, they “are born to blush unseen”. Your art likewise requires the viewer; it is after all a message, in a different language.
A question I would like to ask on the forum is whether my understanding of non-duality conforms with that of other members. Not having artistic talent, I am stuck with prosaic limitation. I guess it will be quite labored.
I realise that none of the ideas expressed below is new in any way (they’re thousands of years old, in the main), and may well be wrong also, or too shallow (almost certainly too shallow), as regards my personal understanding. In writing it, I hope to to be able to gain deeper insight from the responses of anyone who may understand more deeply than me and be able to lead me in the same direction.
I am firmly of the view also, probably shared by most Forum members, that articles like this, which are the products of limited intellectual activity (even if they seem erudite), can never, in themselves, lead to deeper spiritual understanding; this can only come from some deeper (or higher) source (some may call it Grace, if a word has to be put to it). For connection with this Source, we need to have, first and foremost the burning desire for it, and secondly, a range of time-proven spiritual exercises, which we must undertake with a high degree of dedication and perseverance.
Even though words will always be inadequate, the right words in the right context will certainly be beneficial to both the questioning aspirant (who ‘hungers and thirsts after righteousness’) and the advanced spiritual practitioner who will need to connect with the deepest regions of his mind where (memory of) spiritual understanding is stored in order to give meaningful verbal form to them for the benefit of others. Rather belatedly, I recognise the profound opportunity offered by this forum to help each other on our journeys. I am profoundly grateful for the encouragement offered me to join you in our shared endeavour, surely the most important goal one can have in life.
Below I offer a brief overview of the limited understanding my life has led me to, deepened greatly by unexpected Kundalini awakening in my sunset years. Despite my age, I must present myself only as a novice in such company.
In everyday life, as understood by most of humanity, ‘I’ am a body with a name, of certain age, and with various inherited and learned characteristics of personality, surrounded on all sides by aspects of an ‘outside world’ of immense (infinite?) size and complexity, which I experience directly through my ‘senses’, and also learn about through ‘education’, bits of ‘information’ introduced into my brain by ‘others’, also called ‘human beings’ like myself, but existing in and being part of (from ‘my’ perspective) that outside world. In other words, there is a ’me’ and a vastly bigger ‘non-me’, two separate categories of ‘reality’. In a ‘word’: ‘duality’
Ancient eastern religion portrays it differently. To regard ‘I’ (me), and ‘other’, as separate from each other, is illusion. All is one single Reality: ‘non-duality’.
This can be vaguely understood intellectually in that we perceive the world through our senses. These interpret the electromagnetic energy (and other?) signals they receive and send ‘us’ a ‘picture’, ‘sound’, ‘taste’, ‘smell’ or sensation of ‘touch,’ or of ‘pain’, ‘temperature’ etc, these compounding into various secondary responses leading to ‘emotions’, ‘thoughts’ etc. On this basis ‘I ‘am not only my body, but all these ‘representations’ of the outside world’ as well, and also all of the words we use and other intellectual concepts of ourselves and of the outside world resulting from the inflow and processing of information. In other words, we do not see anything as it is in reality, only as unreal representations of it and, as such, an illusory interpretation of the outside world, necessary for our survival in it as a ‘living organism’. ‘I’ am not my body alone but this body-mind complex complete with its ‘constructs’ (creations of the mind), including the Universe: one single Whole. What I took to be a separate me and an outside world is, in fact, only ‘me’. All is ‘me’, one single entity.
But, this intellectual ‘explanation’ misses the mark. ‘Who’ (What) perceives these representations? I (real I, the Self), the Observer, the Experiencer, the Witness, the Atman, is/am what/who receives (is conscious of) these representations. I am not my body, nor my body-mind, but simply the Consciousness that is aware of them. More than that, Consciousness actually created them, along with everything ‘else’, as Illusion, similar to the world we nightly believe ourselves to be inhabiting in the dream state. Pure Consciousness, without body or mind, or anything else, is who ‘I’ really am.
When one’s mind is maximally quiet, without thought, or sensation, or any feeling or concept of ‘I’/myself (which should really be written as i, lower case, for lower self) - when Consciousness is aware only of Itself - that is Self-realisation.
This is not a thought, or even an experience. It is Pure Consciousness, the Self manifesting as Itself, and only Itself, without any other ‘object of consciousness’ (i.e.,what we are usually conscious of).
Eastern religion (as I - my ordinary self, a western layman, and not any sort of authority in the field - understand it) goes further: this Consciousness pervades everything (as Universal, or Prime Consciousness and is in fact, all there is, in Reality. It is eternal, never born, never dies. ‘We’ are ‘That’.
My question to the forum: In your view, do the above words adequately represent the meaning of non-duality, and if not, can someone modify them to better express the true meaning as they understand it (accepting, of course that words alone could never be adequate).
It seems to me that the deepest spiritual understanding has to be experienced (realised) first, only after which can appropriate words be found in order to communicate something of its flavor to others. One needs symbols(such as words, or art) of some sort of more common experience that those others have probably had themselves, in order to encourage them to continue with their practices, which have been developed over millennia to lead the aspirant towards the same spiritual experience directly. Poetic language or the most evocative prose, such as that used by Blanche, in her first post in this series of exchanges, is probably the best use of words, acknowledging that, even so, they are inadequate. Direct experience must be sought for genuine Understanding (Realisation).
This is probably all self-evident to most of the members of this forum. But it may help someone, nevertheless, or some of the responses may (if any), so I think it is worth posting. In fact, I feel I must post it if there is a chance it will help someone, or that the responses to it by others may.
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2021 : 03:53:17 AM
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| For me, Walter, existing in duality, I don’t give non-duality much attention, other than trust my yogi practices will eventually tear the veil to shreds, or I die and understand. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2021 : 07:58:05 AM
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Dear Walter,
Your intellectual re-cap of how it all fits together is sound, yet… it is not. I have been sitting for half an hour with your words trying to - like you have invited us - add what non-duality means to me. From an experiential perspective “we” are not “That”; there is only That. Let us add the other explanation commonly given - There is no subject “I” , no perceiving and no object being perceived. This process has collapsed. There is just That. Duality is “I” and “other” (things or persons). There is no other. Something happens to the mind. It stops. That’s how I interpret it.
You may not realize it but for you to perceive, your attention is pointed and reaches for that object, that sound; your mind moves to meet it. When mind stops, attention is not pointed at anything but broad, everywhere at once. I may be making a booboo trying to deduce what is happening here. Plus there are layers of understanding and it is likely I am far from the correct picture. Every time I think I “get it”, I very soon conclude - no, that’s not it.
There is a whole emotional /psychological process also happening during this journey. I have tried to express some stuff in my thread “The middle years” .
Sey
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2021 : 08:01:53 AM
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I must add something very relevant - do not let the search for Truth detract from the real beauty of these practices (I have a tendency to do that). That is an end to suffering, meaningless suffering in particular.
Sey |
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2021 : 2:33:17 PM
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Dogboy:
Wise words indeed; thank you Dogboy. Yes, why bother with words, knowing they are bound to be inadequate, while already being drawn fulfillingly, by proven spiritual practice, towards deeper and deeper understanding within Silence? Hope and Faith equally important here. As regards “or I die and understand”, I’m rather hoping that, with the Self absorbed into Prime Consciousness, 'understanding' will not be relevant (nor 'I', nor concept of 'death').
Here in the forum, words are needed for communication, though, as instanced by you, sometimes few are better than many. Nevertheless, I’m sure many of us were originally led to begin our spiritual journey through words spoken or written by others, and we need them to communicate with each other in this forum. I’m so glad you and others encouraged me to join in. But I did wonder if I should invite more on this particular topic here, with hundreds of books already having expounded their versions in the past, with varied degrees of meaningful transmission to their readers of the authors’ own understanding of non-duality. I decided to go ahead here anyway, on the premise that nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Perhaps a beautiful poem will emerge. More importantly, a deeper realisation of the fruitlessness of words may lead me (and others) more away from their unnecessary use, allowing the time spent using them (or listening to their cackle in the mind) to be turned inward, toward that inner quietness, toward being ‘present’, toward being ‘connected’ to something beyond myself, during any action not demanding full attention of the mind.
One further thing I would like to raise again here is the question of the connection between kundalini awakening and spiritual understanding. I feel that, with regard to myself, the intensity of energy flow may also be reflected in spiritual flow of thought and the wish to share. Both have seemed to increase in parallel.
SeySorciere:
Thank you. Sey. I very much appreciate your help in trying to clarify what surely can’t really be described in words, yet I do feel it is a worthwhile exercise (for me, anyway), even if (perhaps especially if) it underscores how useless they may be in this sort of context.
In my cumbersome way, I thought I was saying the same as you: that - according to Eastern religion - in Reality, there is only ‘That’, which I took to be another word for Prime Consciousness (or Brahman, or God, or the Source, or the Void…). The closest we, as humans, can get to understanding this, is through Self-realisation, simply that Awareness (the Self) of the awareness we have of ourselves and everything else (but without ‘ourselves’, or any other object of awareness, just awareness of awareness itself, as has been discussed in another forum recently). ‘I’ (‘you’, ‘we’) are not our bodies and their attributes but simply the Consciousness that is aware of them, part of Universal Consciousness, ‘That’, for short. ‘I’ am (‘you’/ ‘we’ are) our recognition of ‘That’ (Prime Consciousness) by a small, but fully representative part of Itself - human consciousness of itself, the Self (as a molecule of water is of exactly the same nature as the whole ocean of which it is part).
In my youth, at the beginning of my search, I read widely, including the Bhagavad Gita, without understanding it. Only recently have I come to feel I now understand it. Only then did those words come to have meaning for me. Words like “Action in inaction; Inaction in action; the seer, the seeing and the seen are One” etc I’m very grateful someone made the effort to put them together even if it may take someone else a lifetime to (begin to) understand. I often go back to them now, especially at bedtime. That also applies to other religious texts, which, despite different terminology, all come to say the same thing, to my mind. It is all a matter of how strong the wish to understand, even if buried in the depths of the unconscious mind for decades.
All that said, it seems likely I have now offered far too many unnecessary further words myself. It has all been said before, and much better. As you say: just stay with the practices. Will do, thank you.
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2021 : 5:39:08 PM
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Walter, You've done a wonderful job describing these concepts in words. No need to apologize for this type of sharing. I also find it helpful to share ideas with others. Those who are interested in what you have to say will read, those who aren't will ignore.
I have reflected on this topic quite a bit, more recently given your posts. Your desire for truth is very strong,yet it can't force you to "ripen" into this truth. In some ways this is a bit like describing color to a blind person. Yogani, Christi and others have emphasized the need to just carry on with the practices and these realizations will manifest just like your blooming ecstatic conductivity(too real at times from what you've declared)when you are ready.
I believe you captured it best in your reply to Dogboy when you declare "Hope and faith equally important here." It seems to me when you reach the edge of understanding as it can be constructed by the intellect you need to have hope and faith to enter this more subtle realm. For me impatience and fear are the guardians of the castle of nonduality. Only those who set down their weapons (their intellect) can enter the castle. Impatience (fueled by time pressure) and fear (the ego's strongest weapon against abandonment) require a disciplined approach to proceed (AYP!). Good luck fellow journeyman, we will get there. Actually we are already there, we just don't see it clearly yet.  |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2021 : 7:02:44 PM
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i have smoothed over the paper thin cracks
allowing the light to bounce in all directions
reflecting a spaced shared in a temple perceived
the truth is one and only one and its mine
i grasp its reality then let go uneclipsed
the scenery its all around all embracing devouring
its one then two then three yes its ours
i ride the untruths the games the view
the waves of cliche that crash on castles in the sky
a clearest sky blue then grey, then and more then
what an appearance ive made scripted by me
a narration that fulfills my every desire and need
was that a rope or a coiled serpent in my dimly lit mind
or just fear dating to my ancestral predatory past
theres so much to lose and gain in the silence
yet it also has fragments and faces and moods and colours
direction in the heavens or hells of your choice
it demands attention just like all named things
a mother that weans the breasts full and over flowing
never wanting the child to become but just to be .
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2021 : 06:22:09 AM
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The reason why it is said that being That cannot be described (yet so many books written to describe it and all the words on this forum) is simply because at that point in time when you are just Awareness, no words are available to you, literally. Even when you are in "normal operating mode" and you try to describe That to someone, your words often sputter and die. You become tongue-tied.
Sey |
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Kundalini and spiritual understanding
