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 Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality)
 relational self inquiry and the IChing
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interpaul

USA
376 Posts

Posted - Mar 25 2021 :  5:12:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
As I become familiar with nonduality and relational self inquiry I still lean on my intellect to create a structure to understand the path forward. My samyama practice has taught me to release into the inner silence in a way that has changed my prior need for control. I was thinking of the I Ching and realized it has some features in common with self inquiry in that the process of throwing the coins without controlling how they will fall or the hexagram they will "randomly" manifest could have a similar process to self inquiry if done with inner silence. I've never been one to believe in things I can't see or scientifically study but my mind has slowly opened (or maybe more accurately gone silent). Curious other people's take on this.

Dogboy

USA
1937 Posts

Posted - Mar 25 2021 :  8:25:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Since my twenties Iíve consulted runes, but interestingly enough, havenít since EC has been aroused. Perhaps tonight? Iím of Norwegian, Irish, and French Canadian descent and the weight, size, and design resonates strongly within, most likely because of my ancestry. (yoga in parentheses). There are twenty four symbol stones (sutras) and a blank stone, the Unknown (inner silence). Mine are in a red velvet sack I had stitched, large enough to put both hands in and cup the stones. I put my face to the opening, inhale and then exhale over the stones (pranayama). Empty of thought and expectation (surrender), I sift the stones, they tumble away until there is one. I locate itís face with my fingertip, and lay it on red velvet cloth the size of an iPhone. A typical spread is three stones laid and read right to left: where you come from; where you are; and how should you proceed.(inquiry)

Seeking counsel within, using a medium that resonates, shows a playful spirit, and basically the whole idea of Inner Guru. Whichever counsel one chooses, runes, tarot, I Ching or Magic 8 Ball, the magic is in the attention you give to it. These counsels are untethered, most likely a frustration to the scientifically minded! Same with all yoga and AYP practices. I believe in the possibility of siddis from whatever I give my attention/intention.

Edited by - Dogboy on Mar 25 2021 8:37:15 PM
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zamolxes

Romania
92 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2021 :  6:59:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I too had a phase in which I played with some kind of divination rod. You take a copper wire of around 30cm, bend it in half and create a semicircle at the turn. Then turn the edges 90 degrees, it should look like this " } ". I hold the edges on my thumb and middle finger, and the wire perpendicular with the ground, holding it softly so as to let the rod move freely.

The science, copper is a strong electromagnetic conductor, and it can "connect" us with the universal field of energy so to say.

When I learned it, it was said that it is a way of allowing your subconscious mind to answer your questions, so I would pose a question with a yes or no answer and release it samyama style into stillness, then the rod would move left or right depending on the answer. It started with am I angry, am I sad, to reading people's energetic blockages, to finding energetic places in the mountains, to pretty much everything I was opened to discover. Slowly I didn't need it anymore, because I began feeling my intuition answering instead. But then I left it behind, because it was just a game really, and all I needed was found with dm.

That would be a game you would like I think, because you start to circle an unknown through your questions, and doing the samyama style thing makes you more open to listen than to imagine, taking the mental structures into intuitive feeling that is more easily released into stillness and bears more fruit. It too had an important place in one stage of my process.

Edited by - zamolxes on Mar 26 2021 7:51:56 PM
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interpaul

USA
376 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2021 :  9:52:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dogboy and Zamolxes, Thank you for your sharings. It all boils down to trust. That seems to be the lesson I have been working on for a few years. In this case it is trust in my inner wisdom. It does remind me of a painful moment in my past when I was torn between the decision of leaving a woman or marrying her. I was paralized with indecision. I went to a therapist who seeing my gridlock playfully told me to flip a coin. That advice angered me faced with one of the most important decisions of my life. He could tell I was upset and worried about me enough to call me later that night at home. He convinced me to return a week later. I walked in and told him I was angry with his advice and told him I was going to flip a coin. If it was heads I was gong to get up and leave the room if it was tails I would stay and continue to explore with him further. It was heads, I got up relieved I wasn't going to continue under his care. I later came to accept leaving the relationship after trusting my inner wisdom. I Ching feels a bit like the coin flip situation as it literally uses tossing coins. To base ones decision on an outcome of a random event such as this still feels a bit risky to me, yet I've been impressed at times with how interesting the advice is, especially when approached humbly samyama style. I think I may rely more on a direct connection with my inner knowing as that isn't subject to the limitations of a heads or tails outcome
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zamolxes

Romania
92 Posts

Posted - Mar 27 2021 :  07:58:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It reminds me of Paulo Coelho, in The alchemist the main character has a white and a black stone in his pocket. When faced with a decision he would take a stone out and depending on the color he would do it or not. It can be interesting to do it, because at the end of the day what is important is not the destination we choose, but the road, and after all we will get to some other conclusions along the way, because we tend to never feel completely satisfied. But then, we are afraid to restrict our freedom through choices, doubting that one would be better than the other. For that we may need to really ask ourselves, such as in the case of marriage.

I too had 2 instances were flipping a coin did good, in one of them I was with a friend and in that time we were really bored, living in a small town and having no friends to hang out with we were flipping coins and chosing a street to walk to, and then again. Until we got in a street in which I met my current beat friend, coincidentally. Other times I would find out what I wanted to do deep within after flipping the coin, regardless of the result.

It can be interesting to be adventurous, but living freely amd in the flow of the present seems to not be always in accord with human intentions, because we always need to control our life, have things sorted out, find everlasting comfort, create a restricting contract for love that came by chance, take some loans from the bank, and so on. And then when we would like to see what life has in store for us, we hit the walls we created around ourselves, not being able to perceive our intuition.
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interpaul

USA
376 Posts

Posted - Mar 27 2021 :  12:04:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Zamolxes, In looking back on many forks in the road in my life I would have to agree with you. Once you commit to a path it leads you in a direction you can't anticipate. Ultimately you have lessons to learn and will be the same person whether you walk down the left or right path. Clearly some paths can be destructive and one can pay a dear price for making bad decisions, yet, ultimately this is a journey and the forks are just a small part of the overall adventure of life. Having chosen to not marry that women I eventually met the women I did marry. We have had so many struggles which I can appreciate now would have inevitably come up if I had married the first woman.

Separate from this perspective I am trying to understand this process of relational self inquiry. If as I suspect it is tapping into the divine essence from within, one would expect a better outcome (i.e. a more resonant path chosen) trusting in messages received from within self inquiry than random events generated by coins. Relying on the coin toss to generate a message implies somehow the hand of "god" reaches down and alters the outcome of heads or tails. In a sense if I want to be more scientific about it, the I Ching would be in line with telekinesis and self inquiry would be more like telepathy.
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zamolxes

Romania
92 Posts

Posted - Mar 27 2021 :  2:33:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes I agree, trusting the coin would be like sailing on the sea trusting that the waves would take you to a nice island. Relational self inquiry would be like a lighthouse, because the lighthouse doesn't run around looking for boats to understand, it just shines. And releasing into stillness means that, to light it up.

Edited by - zamolxes on Mar 27 2021 2:44:36 PM
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1401 Posts

Posted - Mar 31 2021 :  09:07:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

Dogboy and Zamolxes, Thank you for your sharings. It all boils down to trust. That seems to be the lesson I have been working on for a few years. In this case it is trust in my inner wisdom. It does remind me of a painful moment in my past when I was torn between the decision of leaving a woman or marrying her. I was paralized with indecision. I went to a therapist who seeing my gridlock playfully told me to flip a coin. That advice angered me faced with one of the most important decisions of my life. He could tell I was upset and worried about me enough to call me later that night at home. He convinced me to return a week later. I walked in and told him I was angry with his advice and told him I was going to flip a coin. If it was heads I was gong to get up and leave the room if it was tails I would stay and continue to explore with him further. It was heads, I got up relieved I wasn't going to continue under his care. I later came to accept leaving the relationship after trusting my inner wisdom. I Ching feels a bit like the coin flip situation as it literally uses tossing coins. To base ones decision on an outcome of a random event such as this still feels a bit risky to me, yet I've been impressed at times with how interesting the advice is, especially when approached humbly samyama style. I think I may rely more on a direct connection with my inner knowing as that isn't subject to the limitations of a heads or tails outcome



Dear Interpaul

Perhaps you misunderstood your therapistís advice to toss a coin. Tossing a coin is a very good idea when faced with indecision like that. It allows you to know what you really want. The trick lies in the split second when the coin is in the air, you will automatically wish for a side and knowing which side you suddenly want it to fall upon answers your question.
Brilliant!


Sey
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interpaul

USA
376 Posts

Posted - Mar 31 2021 :  1:23:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sey, I agree that technique can help when in grid lock. In retrospect I realize there was no solution. I did end up breaking up with her and had immediate regret. We got back together a day later and I felt immediately conflicted again. Where the relationship failed was in my inability to accept her as she was at that time. I was not emotionally mature enough to accept her good and bad. I wanted the idealized person I fell in love with to manifest.

As I enter the realm of relational self inquiry I am getting glimpses of the connection with that inner knowing. Although it may come at the zenith of a coin toss, it seems to come for me in the depths of inner silence without any distractions from the outside world.
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