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 Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality)
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Christi

United Kingdom
4054 Posts

Posted - Feb 22 2021 :  5:20:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
As a serious seeker it is frustrating to be told your world view is a myth, an illusion. To access "reality", e.g. nonduality is not an easy task. AYP seems the best path I've found that points in that direction, yet the patience required while waiting for the guide to show me the way out of the cave (that illusive silent witness)seems almost heroic.



Hi Interpaul and all,

The cultivation of inner silence can seem like it is the most heroic enterprise in the world and it possibly is. After all, we are conditioned from birth to cultivate an incredible number of things, other than inner silence, and which all push inner silence away. Unless of course we are very lucky, and have someone in our life who teaches us inner silence as a child. So we have a certain amount of conditioning to overcome. The irony is, that when inner silence does come, it appears to be the easiest and most simple thing in the world. In fact nothing could be more simple, or easy. But we cannot create inner silence with the mind, we can only set up the conditions within which it will arise.

The same thing is true when it comes to non-duality. We cannot create it with the mind, no matter what anyone may say. But we can create the conditions within which it arises. And creating the conditions means practice. Then we create the conditions to be able to receive grace.

Interestingly it is grace that gives rise to bhakti, which causes us to take up the spiritual path in the first place. So, grace leads to bhakti, which leads to spiritual practice, purification of the mind, samadhi, more grace, non-duality, the ending of suffering, diving love and so on.

As for all those Advaita teachers out there, are they helpful or not? They might be, for someone who is ripe. That means someone who has made themselves ripe through their spiritual practices and who has already cultivated enough abiding inner silence to be able to benefit from what they are saying. For the vast majority of people, it will not be helpful and could be harmful. And even for many who are ripe, it may not be necessary. Non-duality is everywhere when we are able to perceive it. It is in the mountain and the stars and the forest. In another person's eyes. It is when you see everything and everyone as God.

So, this is why in AYP, the advice is to practice and cultivate inner silence before even considering the path of Jnana. There is even the option to practice, and to never consider advaita at all. It will lead to the same end result, as abiding inner silence will naturally lead to liberation.


Christi


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interpaul

USA
376 Posts

Posted - Feb 22 2021 :  11:05:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for your additional comments.

Christi, I definitely can relate to grace leading to bhakti leading to spiritual practices ... I do understand the path of Jnana requires being "ripe" and is not something one can approach with the intellect. My bhakti is stronger than my patience. The benefits I've experienced and the growing trust in this path keeps me motivated to keep plugging away despite my expressed frustration. I imagine I must sound a bit like the kids in the back seat asking "are we there yet?"
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1401 Posts

Posted - Feb 22 2021 :  11:23:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I think the original purpose of thoughts was to enable choice. Choice infers preference /free will and it is through choosing that we create /sustain this world .
Something went wrong along the way?


Sey
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Christi

United Kingdom
4054 Posts

Posted - Feb 23 2021 :  06:33:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:

I think the original purpose of thoughts was to enable choice. Choice infers preference /free will and it is through choosing that we create /sustain this world .
Something went wrong along the way?


Hi Sey,

They say that in yoga, we do not get the answers to our questions, but we learn how to let go of the questions. This is especially true when it comes to self-inquiry practice. If questions are simply leading to more questions, then this is a sign that the self-inquiry is non-relational (not happening within silence). When it is relational, and therefore helpful, we find that the questions are dissolving without more questions arising. Otherwise it is simply thoughts leading to more thoughts, which can be never-ending.

The answers to all of your questions lie beyond the mind, which means beyond the questions and the questioner. And the answers cannot be described in words. But they can be known, because knowing exists before thoughts arise.

You may find these lessons useful:


Lesson 333 - Dissolving the Witness in Unity

Lesson 325 - Relational and Non-Relational Self-Inquiry

Lesson 350 - Practices for Moving Beyond the Witness Stage


and this lesson addition:

Addition 350.1 - The Witness in Relation to Self-Inquiry


Christi
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Christi

United Kingdom
4054 Posts

Posted - Feb 23 2021 :  11:57:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Interpaul,

quote:
The benefits I've experienced and the growing trust in this path keeps me motivated to keep plugging away despite my expressed frustration. I imagine I must sound a bit like the kids in the back seat asking "are we there yet?"


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kumar ul islam

United Kingdom
788 Posts

Posted - Feb 23 2021 :  1:01:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thinking of thoughts as they pass by
wisps of conditions like friend or foe
or just a forgettable instances like now
just so like now or was it then or before
or even after the first or last
a purpose decreed by a reason or reason
just so because it makes sense to our humanity

the moon is there to tell us its winter
the sun at its height its mid summer eve
just a thought you see just so
to make sense of the something or the nothing
the void is just a contrast to know its full
just so you see its only a thought

now for the purpose the outcome the end
the consequence of thinking whilst doing
or doing whilst thinking a catalyst for change
even the amoeba acts by its nature in its thought
i must i must i must i will i will i will







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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1401 Posts

Posted - Feb 27 2021 :  11:44:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yesterday I saw a water hyacinth with four petals of the same light purple color and a fifth petal with a design and color of a peacock tail. I spend hours marveling at it and wondering how it got to be that way.

Everybody takes everything so seriously


Sey
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Dogboy

USA
1938 Posts

Posted - Feb 27 2021 :  10:28:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I’m very serious in my marveling
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1724 Posts

Posted - Feb 28 2021 :  08:52:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
And we take you quite seriously, Sey.
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Yogabuzz108

United Kingdom
75 Posts

Posted - Feb 28 2021 :  6:36:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Om Sey,

Interesting words you used to describe what you saw...

The four petals represent Mooladhara chakra, the light purple colour represents the crown chakra, and the peacock feather represents rebirth...
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1401 Posts

Posted - Mar 01 2021 :  03:26:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply


Very interesting indeed Yogabuzz


Sey

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Yogabuzz108

United Kingdom
75 Posts

Posted - Mar 01 2021 :  6:24:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Om Sey,

I'm no Mystic Meg... but if was was to interpret this for you... and theres' probably a million and one ways it could be interpreted so..., but I would say that because mooladhara (the four petalled chakra) was coloured in the crown chakra pigment, indicates that your base and crown are connected which means... and the representation of rebirth (in the form of the peacock), and the major life changes that you are experiencing at the moment all point towards... and plus the fact that all your external foundations are disappearing also...

Om Shanti om!

Keep the faith sis everything is happening just as its ment to

Edited by - Yogabuzz108 on Mar 02 2021 12:03:12 PM
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Dandelion

Yugoslavia
6 Posts

Posted - Apr 25 2021 :  05:30:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Dandelion's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Say, the thoughts represent the ability of our consciousness to perceive, evaluate and draw conclusions about a particular thing, person or phenomenon with which we encounters.

When the meditator closes his eyes (without concentration, visualization, breathing control and body position) he spontaneously relaxes on a physical, emotional and mental level. It is a state of frequency of brain waves of approximately 7 Hz, which allows the Soul of the meditator to begin the process of Recapitulation, the process of uploading, evaluation, classification and storage of life experiences. You have experienced the described process and the best thing you can do is not to affect the process at all, because you will thereby interrupt, take over and turn it into something that has no therapeutic effect.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1401 Posts

Posted - Apr 26 2021 :  01:20:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your thoughts on this topic, Dandelion.

What you are describing does not quite capture my original question or state.

Others have also tried to propose solutions to the "perceived problem" in my question when it was never a problem to begin with but a scientific investigation into the nature of thoughts from an expanded Consciousness (beyond mind) point of view. I observe mind, perfectly still and sparkling clear - I observe a thought arise; if energy is invested, mind will move. If I just keep observing, mind stays still, thought floats briefly just beyond and fades. Just the Knowing is there. Mind is an interface. Thoughts arising from the physical and mental are "known"; but there appears to also be a pushing in the other direction, thoughts arising from expanded Consciousness making itself "known" to conscious mind?

These are my observations and my conclusions are, of course, inadequate.

I believe asking questions and seeking answers are what drives progress. So many questions history believed we would never get answers to, yet someone kept asking and today we have answers.



Sey




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Dandelion

Yugoslavia
6 Posts

Posted - Apr 26 2021 :  05:33:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Dandelion's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
You are right, Sey, we have given our vision of their purpose / action and the purpose of their spontaneous appearance during meditation.

The answer to the previous two questions: what are thoughts and where their source, is very difficult to give, due to the nature of human consciousness. Namely, in order to better understand a some phenomenon, people have the need to analyze certain phenomena separate, for the sake for better analysis is possible. However, consciousness is very receptive, and for that reason they reflect in themselves everything they encounter. Sometimes the cause of the impressions that a particular thought reflects have source inside us, but in other cases the particular thought that we have observed may be filled with the impressions of some other people.

Therefore, it seems to us that we will not get an answer to this question for a long time, except of course, when after Enlightenment and its materialization (level of consciousness 31) we reach the Nirvana (level of consciousness 1), when we become the creator of a completely new Universe, Universe created according with our ideas and concepts. Currently, the consciousness of the people functions on the lowest three planes of consciousness: Physical (34), Emotional (33) and Thought levels (32).

Edited by - Dandelion on Apr 26 2021 06:52:40 AM
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mero

Canada
2 Posts

Posted - Apr 26 2021 :  9:38:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I believe thoughts are the reverberation of past experiences. Their purpose is to allow “learned” (I.e., non-instinctual) behaviors. Judging by the sheer number of Homo sapiens on the planet, I would say thoughts have a high survival value.
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