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 Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality)
 A non relational perspective on relational inquiry
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interpaul

USA
200 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2021 :  12:10:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Despite some inner silence I am standing at the door of relational self inquiry without any true knowledge of what lies beyond that door or when it will open for me. I feel like Neo right before he takes the red pill. Probably a better analogy is Dorothy searching for Oz. Yogani has developed the yellow brick road to Oz so anyone can find their way. I believe we are all searching for something to feel whole again.

The terminology "relational" self inquiry feels like a bit of a tease. Given my life of inquiry has entiredly focused on using my intellect, and that is considered non relational, one has to assume realtional inquiry has someone or something one is "relating" to. In my explorations into samyama I've experienced energy beyond what my rational mind would expect in response to releasing a sutra into silence. Having done some explorations into hypnosis my mind tells me samyama is a way to tap into the unconscious just like a trigger word shifts the mind into the hypnotic state.

The path to relational self inquiry, taking the wizard of oz theme forward, is made up of stones (deep meditation) and mortar(ecstatic conductivity). The stones are the foundation, the mortar courses between creating the yellow glow, so to speak.

Leaving that analogy behind I imagine the object of the relating in this case is "God", or that life force at the heart of it all. My concern is once we have experienced ecstatic conductivity and some inner silence we have experienced the road but we have not experienced the destination (Oz), or the relational object (the Wizard).

The challenge for me going forward is having trust this path leads to something. In lesson 331 Yogani says "Relational self inquiry can be used to favor progress in stillness over the tempations with the inevitable ecstatic energy experiences that will happen along the way" Since the path to relational self inquiry is pathed with ecstatic conductivity, and that is stirring up my primary issue (a struggle to manage ecstatic energy, my equivalent of the Tin man's search for a heart or the scarecrows search for a brain)I continue to find the path forward a double edged sword.

The wisdom of the group is SELF PACE. When I dial back the ecstatic I feel deflated and loose my motivation some. I am looking for some wisdom/reassurance from those of you who have entered the kingdom of relational self inquiry. Anyone willing to pull the curtain back a little?

maheswari

Lebanon
2437 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2021 :  12:43:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Interpaul
quote:

The challenge for me going forward is having trust this path leads to something

it is a journey from here to here as explained very well by this lesson
https://www.aypsite.org/348.html
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Christi

United Kingdom
3821 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2021 :  1:02:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Interpaul,

quote:
The terminology "relational" self inquiry feels like a bit of a tease. Given my life of inquiry has entiredly focused on using my intellect, and that is considered non relational, one has to assume realtional inquiry has someone or something one is "relating" to.


Relational self-inquiry is relational to inner silence. That means that it is enquiry happening within silence. If you find it confusing right now, and are intellectualizing the whole process, then that it is an indication that you are engaged in non-relational self-inquiry. Confusion and intellectualization are both symptoms that it is not happening within silence. So, best to leave it until later.

You will know when the time is right.

See here:

Lesson 356 - How to Recognize Relational Self-Inquiry

"A good way to recognize relational self-inquiry is in noticing what it is not. If there is strain, expectation, intellectualizing, judgment, frustration, headache, etc., those would be signs of non-relational self-inquiry, and it is best to lighten up (self-pace) in those instances. With the rise of inner silence (witness), those symptoms will be less present, and we will simply be noticing thoughts and feelings to be objects in our awareness, no longer classifying them or hanging on to them, no longer seeing them as extensions of our self, or as "baggage" to be carried around. They will be seen to be outside our sense of self. If inquiry is increasingly joyful and luminous, through both "good times" and "bad times," we can be sure it is becoming relational. That is, released in stillness (the witness)....

The term "relational" was coined to identify the relationship between abiding inner silence (the witness) and thoughts. That relationship consummates with the natural release (letting go) of thoughts in stillness, the blending of one into the other, which is also samyama. It is the basis of effective self-inquiry, divine outpouring, stillness in action, spontaneous siddhis (small and large), and freedom from the ups and downs of this world, even as we remain active in it." [Yogani]

Ecstasy does not play a major role in self-inquiry. Only a minor role. Inner silence (stillness) is the most important factor.


Christi
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sunyata

USA
1457 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2021 :  4:07:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Interpaul,

Good advice already.

I've posted the same response in Plus forum. :) I'm going to add to it here. The last paragraph will probably relate best to your question in this particular topic. The first two paragraphs not directly related. However, I feel they all tie in after reading all your post in the forums through these months.

Your challenges have come to the light of awareness. Now, these experiences needs to be "digested".Very often human beings wall off , exile parts of themselves. Through digesting these experiences, the unresolved parts become integrated. As I often mention, spirituality can be used as a buffer to cover inner pain.Samyama or letting go in Stillness without digesting the experiences may feel a bit like buffering your pain through spirituality. I can sense that you have discovered that for yourself through your writing. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

By "digestion" or "digesting" I mean being with the energy of the feeling without the story. Being intimate with the pain and facing it. Then, the so called challenges will be your doorway to Freedom.

With enough digestion, there will be more space/spaciousness. In this spaciousness,it will be very easy to engage in relational self inquiry. It won't feel heady, intellectual or like you are running in circles anymore.

Sunyata

Edited by - sunyata on Jan 14 2021 06:57:08 AM
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interpaul

USA
200 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2021 :  4:18:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Maheswari and Christi, Thank you both for your ongoing support. I feel a little like a kid in the back of the car asking "are we there yet?" I've never stuck with a practice like this for so long so I have some built in impatience and occaisional moments of fear that I've been a little seduced by the choice of this energetic path to enlightenment. I fully understand the critical roll of inner silence as the major practice and have started to experience deepening of the stillness in my deep meditation practices. Hopefully the "scenery" outside will start to look more like Kansas again and I'll know I've found my way home.
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interpaul

USA
200 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2021 :  1:08:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sunyata, Thanks for sharing your thoughts here as well.
quote:
Stillness without digesting the experiences may feel a bit like buffering your pain through spirituality. I can sense that you have discovered that for yourself through your writing. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

On this point I'm a bit confused. Others have advised me to let go of the story. Releasing this stuff into samyama or eventually relational self inquiry seems to be different from digesting experiences. I have worried just releasing stuff into silence doesn't truly address it. I recall a few years ago when I was listening to Eckhart Tolle. He suggested we just drop our story and then we have no problem. That always seemed a bit flipant to me as there are things that need to be addressed in this world actively. Yogani's teachings don't suggest an inner retreat but full engagement in the world. It's a tough nut to crack when inner silence isn't super strong yet.
quote:
Quote
During my meditation this morning I broke out in a sweat and intrusive thoughts penetrated my inner silence. This has not happened much during DM but I honored the intrusion this time as it felt important. I felt a deep sadness as I experienced the painful nature of my marital decline.

Hi Interpaul,

Be careful not to do this. Deep Meditation is not a practice of "honouring intrusions", no matter how important they may seem or feel at the time. If we do that, what we are doing is getting lost in the objects of the mind, and there is no limit to the number of apparently important things the mind can produce. It is never ending and only leads to identification with mental objects and continued suffering.



This exchange with Christi seems opposite of what you are saying. I honored the feelings. I get Christi's point about not doing that during meditation.
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sunyata

USA
1457 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2021 :  4:45:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

Sunyata, Thanks for sharing your thoughts here as well.
quote:
Stillness without digesting the experiences may feel a bit like buffering your pain through spirituality. I can sense that you have discovered that for yourself through your writing. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

On this point I'm a bit confused. Others have advised me to let go of the story. Releasing this stuff into samyama or eventually relational self inquiry seems to be different from digesting experiences. I have worried just releasing stuff into silence doesn't truly address it. I recall a few years ago when I was listening to Eckhart Tolle. He suggested we just drop our story and then we have no problem. That always seemed a bit flipant to me as there are things that need to be addressed in this world actively. Yogani's teachings don't suggest an inner retreat but full engagement in the world. It's a tough nut to crack when inner silence isn't super strong yet.



Hi Interpaul,

This is for outside sitting practices. After some time, life becomes a meditation. As you know experiences are stored in the body not just in the mind. The sticky experiences or experiences that have left a deep imprint in us like some of the ones you have often mentioned do not just disappear. When these memories arise, we can be with them without adding stories to them. As you have describe above, just dropping the story will not make the deep impression disappear right away. It’s only with continued practice and deepening of inner silence, we are able to sit with the “energy” of whatever arises. When we let the energy run its course, the letting go happens automatically. By now you already know inner silence is where relational self inquiry happens. You're doing great! Keep on trucking.

I agree with Christi that during sitting practice, we easily favor the mantra when we notice we are off it.

Hope this helps.

Sunyata

Edited by - sunyata on Jan 14 2021 5:00:04 PM
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1280 Posts

Posted - Jan 15 2021 :  03:21:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
When to let go of the story v/s when to just be with the story....



Sey
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sunyata

USA
1457 Posts

Posted - Jan 15 2021 :  04:01:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere

When to let go of the story v/s when to just be with the story....



Sey



Hello Sey,

If there is still a charge to the story/memory, then be with the story. Whereas, when the story/memory comes up and there is no charge to it, then letting go has happened.

Sunyata
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interpaul

USA
200 Posts

Posted - Jan 15 2021 :  4:18:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Sunyata!
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