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 Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality)
 loosing desire
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interpaul

USA
155 Posts

Posted - Oct 06 2020 :  12:18:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
A year and a half into my practices I am noticing a change in my desire to DO stuff. Don't get me wrong I'm still fully engaged in a 40 hour a week job caring for people (despite COVID) and spending time with family/friends on nights and weekends. I am approaching 60 and realize much of this may also be related to an age thing. My concern comes from a fear of slipping into apathy. I don't find as much joy in doing things (although I still enjoy creating art and spending time in nature). It definitely feels like I am in a transition to something else. Can anyone relate to this? Any suggestions on how to weather this state other than continuing with the practices and staying engaged in my daily life?

Edited by - AYPforum on Oct 07 2020 03:41:41 AM

AYPforum

351 Posts

Posted - Oct 07 2020 :  03:41:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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maheswari

Lebanon
2397 Posts

Posted - Oct 07 2020 :  03:46:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi interpaul
It seems to be the normal stages of witnessing and its dissolving into silence
Check lesson 327 about dispassion
You are still assessing from the mind hence the post and your concern , but when the silence is complete there will be no residual gap made of assessment and concern , it is zero distance, taking it as it comes and acting accordingly
Just carry on

Edited by - maheswari on Oct 07 2020 04:56:09 AM
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interpaul

USA
155 Posts

Posted - Oct 07 2020 :  7:27:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Maheswari, Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. Recently I am sensing a change during DM, I believe it is the witness. The meditation goes much deeper and my mind is more silent. After looking at lesson 327 I realize I am going to have to be patient as self inquiry appears to not have much traction until the witness is more developed. All this talk of the witness is frustrating for the impatient mind. I have spent a life time living in my thoughts, I hope all this talk of the witness and the new perspective it will engender is real.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1255 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2020 :  12:12:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Interpaul,

It is likely that you are noticing a change in your felt sense of "I" rather than the action "do"; it is the ego-"I" that is less.

Look at it from this perspective and see how you feel.

In any case, this feeling comes and goes. So, just be patient with yourself.


Sey
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interpaul

USA
155 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2020 :  5:17:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sey, Thank you for sharing your perspective. That does make sense. I do feel less attached to my ego
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firststep

USA
7 Posts

Posted - Oct 19 2020 :  03:13:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Interpaul,
this thread seems timely to me. I have been practicing Kundalini yoga for a year and a half pretty religiously. However, over the last few months I have been querying myself about the motivation for daily life activities which is not there anymore. I was thinking may be I am going thru a positive change - until I read Sey’s comment: the “i” and the “do” parts of the equation. This hit me like a timely koan. thanks Sey.
Over the last few days I have been thinking about it over and over. I have concluded that the “i” in me is fairly strong (as witnessed by a recent argument with my spouse) and it has been giving me a false sense of pride and an excuse to not do or delay the things that I need to work on. It is a false suppression of the “do” part of the life. I now realize I still have ways to go along the yogic highway. Sigh...
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Oct 19 2020 :  09:24:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

A year and a half into my practices I am noticing a change in my desire to DO stuff. Don't get me wrong I'm still fully engaged in a 40 hour a week job caring for people (despite COVID) and spending time with family/friends on nights and weekends. I am approaching 60 and realize much of this may also be related to an age thing. My concern comes from a fear of slipping into apathy. I don't find as much joy in doing things (although I still enjoy creating art and spending time in nature). It definitely feels like I am in a transition to something else. Can anyone relate to this? Any suggestions on how to weather this state other than continuing with the practices and staying engaged in my daily life?


Hi interpaul, Firstly thank you for taking care of people through these tough Covid times  
The isolation you feel comes as a result of practices... there is a difference between Aloneness and Loneliness.. and what you are feeling is aloneness in the middle of many many people. In my experience this is like a cocoon phase... here you are learning to let go attachments to relationships as you know them so that you can genuinely love from inner silence. Personally I think you are already doing this... just your mind, that has been used to labeling love and caring a certain way for 60 years, hasn't caught up to your inner changes...Next time you feel this aloneness/detachment... take a step back from what your mind is labeling it as and see if you can feel the beauty of giving from inner silence that you are experiencing. Look at Yogani's lesson on this:https://www.aypsite.org/392.html

Edited by - Shanti on Oct 19 2020 10:42:55 AM
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interpaul

USA
155 Posts

Posted - Oct 19 2020 :  5:55:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Firststep, Thanks for your sharing. My spouse indirectly helps me by challenging which of my developments are real and which ones may be spiritual bypass. I find people who aren't very spiritual will challenge us and quickly cut thru any bullsh*t we tell ourselves.

Shanti, Thanks for your thoughts and sharing the link. I haven't gotten that far in the lessons yet. I am always a little concerned about assuming my spiritual progress vs. a set back on the path. I think both often happen at the same time. I am much more sensitive to feelings due to ecstatic conductivity. My teenage daughters are so caught up in the day to day drama and it is sometimes hard to relate to. My wife will often accuse me of being "checked out", or not engaged in this stuff. I just don't find the emotional roller coaster they suffer from very compelling (although I empathize with their suffering and try to guide them) The whole process of letting go of attachments, not feeling the need to possess stuff or control people is a natural part of this unfoldment, yet, sometimes I wonder if we all fool ourselves into believing we are above it all.
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Dogboy

USA
1759 Posts

Posted - Oct 19 2020 :  7:42:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Shanti, we have missed you!

quote:
I am much more sensitive to feelings due to ecstatic conductivity. My teenage daughters are so caught up in the day to day drama and it is sometimes hard to relate to. My wife will often accuse me of being "checked out", or not engaged in this stuff. I just don't find the emotional roller coaster they suffer from very compelling (although I empathize with their suffering and try to guide them) The whole process of letting go of attachments, not feeling the need to possess stuff or control people is a natural part of this unfoldment, yet, sometimes I wonder if we all fool ourselves into believing we are above it all.


Interpaul, there are moments when my wife is saying or doing something, and then interject with “hello?”, even though I have been there all along, making eye contact and all, but obviously there is a presence in my eyes or expression that indicates I’ve checked out. A result of practices? Inner silence? hard to confidently sew that thread; I do know I was deeply present.
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Oct 20 2020 :  08:57:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy

Shanti, we have missed you!


Thank you Dogboy!!!
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Oct 20 2020 :  12:10:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

Firststep,  Thanks for your sharing.  My spouse indirectly helps me by challenging which of my developments are real and which ones may be spiritual bypass. I find people who aren't very spiritual will challenge us and quickly cut thru any bullsh*t we tell ourselves.

Shanti,  Thanks for your thoughts and sharing the link.  I haven't gotten that far in the lessons yet.  I am always a little concerned about assuming my spiritual progress vs. a set back on the path.  I think both often happen at the same time.  I am much more sensitive to feelings due to ecstatic conductivity.  My teenage daughters are so caught up in the day to day drama and it is sometimes hard to relate to. My wife will often accuse me of being "checked out", or not engaged in this stuff.  I just don't find the emotional roller coaster they suffer from very compelling (although I empathize with their suffering and try to guide them) The whole process of letting go of attachments, not feeling the need to possess stuff or control people is a natural part of this unfoldment, yet, sometimes I wonder if we all fool ourselves into believing we are above it all.


You have it right interpaul... family is our best guru... I started this journey with AYP in 2005 and my family wasn't very supportive... but in time they have not only come to accept what and who I am, as I am, but my daughters actually want to be where I am with inner peace and stillness. All you can do is keep going... don't try to carpet the world, put on shoes. And it's good to have some skepticism, keeps us honest... but too much of dismissing what's going on can slow down our progress. 
https://www.aypsite.org/182.html
Good luck my dear!  

Edited by - Shanti on Oct 20 2020 12:37:05 PM
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interpaul

USA
155 Posts

Posted - Oct 20 2020 :  1:43:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dogboy, Thank you for sharing your story about your wife interjecting "hello?". Your reflection on this is helpful. In some ways this is a little like karma yoga. You carry on the action and you don't control how others experience your actions. You just keep showing up as best you can.

quote:
Originally posted by Shanti

[quote]Originally posted by interpaul
don't try to carpet the world, put on shoes. And it's good to have some skepticism, keeps us honest... but too much of dismissing what's going on can slow down our progress. 



Trying the quote thing here, hopefully it works.
Shanti, I really appreciate your words of encouragement. I can't imagine how differently I will see the world after 15 years of practicing. I love "don't try to carpet the world, put on shoes", wonderful advice! I also appreciate the link/reminder about healthy skepticism. My struggles from day 1 have come fear of going down the wrong path. Yogani lays out a plan in his lessons that show you how to do it. He then encourages you to not take things on faith but through personal experience. That resonates deeply with me, and I imagine all who find his path. The challenge for me is not in believing his practices work. Not in doubting they change the "neurobiology" but rather in where this ultimately leads. I can say with 100% certainty these practices have changed me. Since I am in a "cocoon phase" I will never know if this ultimately will lead to me turning into a butterfly or something less beautiful. I once raised concerns about this path being a different type of addiction and one of the long term practitioners acknowledged AYP is a type of addiction for him, but a better one. The skeptic in me allows me to proceed but worries I may ultimately just be a guy who has a calm mind, bathing in ecstatic states without any real movement towards divine love. I continue on this path trusting in Yogani's teachings as they have been spot on so far and the encouraging words I hear on this forum keep the skeptic in check. Thank you for your support.
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sunyata

USA
1427 Posts

Posted - Oct 21 2020 :  09:39:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul
The skeptic in me allows me to proceed but worries I may ultimately just be a guy who has a calm mind, bathing in ecstatic states without any real movement towards divine love. I continue on this path trusting in Yogani's teachings as they have been spot on so far and the encouraging words I hear on this forum keep the skeptic in check. Thank you for your support.



Hello Interpaul,

Good advice from everyone already.

Have you read the ten bulls of zen? It describes the path/stages to Enlightenment. Here's the tenth bull:

Return to Society

"Barefooted and naked of breast,
I mingle with the people of the world.
My clothes are ragged and dust-laden,
and I am ever blissful.
I use no magic to extend my life;
Now, before me, the dead trees
become alive."



P.S. Shanti: So good to see you again!

Edited by - sunyata on Oct 21 2020 09:41:23 AM
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Oct 21 2020 :  10:06:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul


Since I am in a "cocoon phase" I will never know if this ultimately will lead to me turning into a butterfly or something less beautiful.  I once raised concerns about this path being a different type of addiction and one of the long term practitioners acknowledged AYP is a type of addiction for him, but a better one.  The skeptic in me allows me to proceed but worries I may ultimately just be a guy who has a calm mind, bathing in ecstatic states without any real movement towards divine love.  I continue on this path trusting in Yogani's teachings as they have been spot on so far and the encouraging words I hear on this forum keep the skeptic in check.  Thank you for your support.



Hi interpaul,I know many, including me, have sometimes referred to meditation being like an addiction...a few years back we would use the analogy of doing meditation like brushing your teeth, and over the years I have come to realize this is very true, meditation is done twice a day like brushing your teeth and then you live your life... so if brushing teeth would be considered an addiction, then this path can be equated with addiction... else I would just call it getting into a good habit.

What I am going to say next may not make sense... if it doesn't you can just ignore it. The main focus of mine in this path has been seeing through mind stories via inquiry... and I have helped my daughters a lot with this as well. The one thing we come back to often is what we have named "an alien thingy"... when someone calls us "stupid", "incompetent", "bad parent/child/friend/sibling etc" we get hurt and feel bad and depending on how those words were used go into a whole story about how terrible we are or they are... but if someone calls us an alien from outer space, we would not take that seriously (dunno.. maybe some would, but in our family we don't ) ... why is that? It's only because somewhere deep inside we believe in those words that we react to.  Well this is an important thing to see before you can let go reacting to "words".So your thoughts, your fears are what you actually believe in... look at them as words... then you can let go of the attachment to these.
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul


but worries I may ultimately just be a guy who has a calm mind, bathing in ecstatic states without any real movement towards divine love.



Why fear some idea you have of what divine love looks like? If the only thing you achieve is a calm mind and bathing in ecstasy... wouldn't that be a divine gift anyway? Drop the fear my dear, don't worry if you will come out of the cocoon as a butterfly or something less beautiful... Again beauty is a mind story, an idea that you are fearing... The best tool you can walk this path with is faith and gratitude... something like KC talks about in this post:  https://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic...=18668#18668
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Oct 21 2020 :  10:07:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by sunyata



P.S. Shanti: So good to see you again!



Thank you!
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interpaul

USA
155 Posts

Posted - Oct 21 2020 :  10:45:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sunyata, Thanks, I wasn't familiar with the ten bulls. I like the message

Shanti, Your message really affected me and I had to sit with it for the day. I appreciate your feedback. I do struggle with trust. Faith and gratitude are certainly a better way to navigate this life. I appreciate your support and engagement.
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Oct 22 2020 :  06:57:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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