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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 22 2020 : 6:39:51 PM
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Moderator note: This topic has been split from here.
Hi Sey and all,
quote:
For AYP, 2-4 hrs of practice is way, way too much.
It really depends on the practitioner and where they are at, in terms of how their AYP practice has developed over the years. If someone has been practicing for a number of years and has built up a fairly full practice routine, then their practice could look like this:
asana 20 mins
spinal breathing 10 mins
advanced pranayama 10 mins
deep meditation 20 mins
samyama 20 mins
cosmic samyama 5 mins
rest 10 mins
So, that makes 95 minutes and we would be doing that twice each day. The total would be over three hours. If more pranayamas are being used, then it could be longer. If someone was in "retreat mode", say at a weekend, or on a week off, then they could be doing that three or four times a day, which could be up to six hours or more.
Obviously, this is something that has to be built up to gradually, over a long period of time, but it is not uncommon for advanced practitioners.
Christi
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Dogboy
USA
2195 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2020 : 8:15:42 PM
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Looking forward to Zoom Retreat this weekend   |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2020 : 01:23:38 AM
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Dear Christi,
Sure, in retreat mode for advanced practitioners, could be. But the person here appears new to the whole thing.
Sey 
P.S. It would be interesting to hear from an AYPer who has actually managed to build up their practices to that length of time and is stable. Please give a shout-out.
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Edited by - SeySorciere on Sep 24 2020 01:26:15 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2020 : 12:56:41 PM
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Hi Sey,
Yes, certainly a beginner could not do that safely.
This topic is an example of an intermediate level practitioner, who at that time had an 80 minute practice, twice a day.
Christi |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2020 : 05:28:04 AM
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Thanks Christi,
The longest sittings I had which remained stable was about 55 mins per sitting and that was at the time when I was stable.
Sey |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2020 : 07:08:59 AM
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Hi Sey,
Purification is different for everyone and changes over time for an individual person. People who are under sensitive can practice for longer periods of time, whilst people who are oversensitive need shorter practices to achieve the same results. And as someone progresses on the path, they can (and usually do) become more sensitive to spiritual energy, and so can and should reduce their practice times accordingly. I have known advanced practitioners who have become so sensitive to spiritual energy that they only did two breaths of spinal breathing in each sitting. That was as much activation of prana as they needed and then they would go into meditation. No advanced pranayama at all. So, longer sittings are certainly not necessarily an indication of how far someone is on the path.
And in terms of being stable, everyone can self-pace their own practice as necessary. If someone is not feeling stable, then they can reduce their practice times, and the number of their practices, and keep reducing them, until they reach a stable level. And that can mean self-pacing to zero for a time if necessary. But self-pacing to zero is only a last resort, and when it is necessary, it is usually only because someone did not cut back on timings, when early indications of overload started to appear.
Christi
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2020 : 01:11:35 AM
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Noted with thanks
Sey |
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Nirguna
Australia
57 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2020 : 03:33:04 AM
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Hi everyone.
I'm writing here to support Christi's argument and respond to SeySorciere callout.
I am what in AYP system is called Under Sensitive. That means I can do many hours of everything under AYP practices with ease and stability.
So, 4 hours a day is a bare minimum I would do these days. On top of that, I have inner calling to do more.
A while ago I contacted Yogani to ask him about more extreme practices that he might be less likely to share with us because they might be dangerous for regular practitioners. His answer was 'No'. He said that he is not keeping any such practices from us.
That makes me look out for more techniques outside of AYP. Constant increase of prictice time makes little sense beyond 6 hours a day.
If you can suggest something powerful outside of AYP system, please share. Some of us might benefit greatly.
All that said, thank you Yogani for AYP. I came long way using this system. It works! ;)
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2020 : 08:51:14 AM
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Hi Nirguna,
What is your current practice routine and how many times a day do you practice? Also do you currently do any of the AYP practices "off the mat" such as self-inquiry practice or cosmic samyama?
Christi |
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Nirguna
Australia
57 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2020 : 1:01:11 PM
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Hi Christi. Good to hear from you ;)
My meditation timer is set to:
20 min Spinal Breathing
5 min Chin Pump
5 min Spinal Bastrika
20 min Deep Meditation (with solar centering)
10 min Samyama
5 min Self Enquiry
But often I get lost in Samyama 15 minutes or more. I carry on Self Enquiry until my legs can take it. It is not unusual to go over 90 min. Actually not timing the total.
Light strech and cosmic samyama I do not even calculate as prictice time.
All in Sidhasana & Ketchari stage 2. Shambhavi and light mulabandha during first half. There is more, I always forget something...
Two sittings in the morning & two sittings in the afternoon as per retreat mode since February.
I know... I know... It is a lot but let me assure you it was all gradual and natural. I'm not tryig any heroic feat here. I have been on a plateau for few years now with a lot of raging bhakti.
I am not boasting here. I am asking for help. How to shift into next gear?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2020 : 2:37:58 PM
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Hi Nirguna,
Normally self-inquiry practice is not done during sitting practices, but is done off the mat, during the day. It could be right after our rest period, or at another time during the day. Once some degree of inner silence is present, we can start out with a short period of self-inquiry each day, which can then be expanded. Building up should be done gradually, but there is really no limit to the time that we can spend in self-inquiry. It can expand to a continuous noticing of the Self 24/7 and finally living from the Self, as the Self. We can be doing this even whilst we are engaged in normal activities, or we can set aside some time to sit under a tree, or by a river, and inquire into the true nature of reality. Jiddu Krishnamurti once said that at a certain point we have to take a leap, and see the world as if from the further shore.
That would be my suggestion. Notice that it is all one thing: The tree, the river, the observer, the lights on the water...
Simply from that noticing, things start to dissolve.
This is the full quote:
“The soil in which the meditative mind can begin is the soil of everyday life, the strife, the pain, and the fleeting joy. It must begin there, and bring order, and from there move endlessly. But if you are concerned only with making order, then that very order will bring about its own limitation, and the mind will be its prisoner. In all this movement you must somehow begin from the other end, from the other shore, and not always be concerned with this shore or how to cross the river. You must take a plunge into the water, not knowing how to swim. And the beauty of meditation is that you never know where you are, where you are going, what the end is.” [Krishnamurti]
Christi |
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2020 : 7:15:20 PM
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| Nirguna, I am relatively new to AYP (~18 months). The desire for more seems a driver for many of us, including myself. You raise an interesting question regarding how to maximize results. Yogani often speaks of this being a marathon and not a sprint. My only push back on you would be why the rush? What are you trying to achieve? Are you drawn to intense experiences? Do you experience inner silence with your current practices? Are your expectations colored by prior non AYP dramatic experiences. My questions are more to understand what you are trying to achieve and not at all a judgement as I often struggle with my true motivations for doing these practices. |
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Nirguna
Australia
57 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2020 : 03:13:05 AM
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Hi Christi. Always good to hear your suggestions.
I do something similar off the mat. Spontaneous mantra and solar centering comes during a day. I know it is supposed to be reserved for Deep Meditation. I will try to consciously switch to Self Enquiry instead, so to it goes more along the AYP guideline.
Now. I will try to answer interpaul questions:
1. "My only push back on you would be why the rush?"
No rush. I have been on a plateau for some years now and aclimitized to Ecstatic Conductivity. For last three years I longing to shift into next gear. Smootly as possible.
2. "What are you trying to achieve?"
This one is funny to anwer. It is like asking surfer on the tall wave "what are you trying to achive?" One day I will ask you this same question and we will laugh together ;)
3. "Are you drawn to intense experiences?"
No. I prefer buzzing mildly and continuously for long time on and off the meditation seat.
4. "Do you experience inner silence with your current practices?"
Not really. Ecstatic Conductivity yes. Inner Silence is not abiding yet.
5. "Are your expectations colored by prior non AYP dramatic experiences."
No. I am just keen for more.
6. "My questions are more to understand what you are trying to achieve and not at all a judgement as I often struggle with my true motivations for doing these practices."
I understand clearly where your questions are coming from. Once you have some Ecstatic Conductivity present inside you, these questions will disappear. Then you will ask yourself "How can I do more of this?"
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2020 : 08:44:13 AM
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quote:
Hi Christi. Always good to hear your suggestions.
I do something similar off the mat. Spontaneous mantra and solar centering comes during a day. I know it is supposed to be reserved for Deep Meditation. I will try to consciously switch to Self Enquiry instead, so to it goes more along the AYP guideline.
Hi Nirguna,
In terms of adding more practices, from within the AYP system there are a few pranayama practices that you have not mentioned. dynamic jalandhara bandha is one, and heart breathing is another. Then there are kapalbhati and anuloma viloma (nadi shodhana pranayama). Each one works in a different way in the subtle nervous system and adds a new dimension to practice.
Of course, we do not have to use every tool in the toolkit. So, it is a question of finding what is right for you.
In terms of adding non-AYP practices on, you certainly can do that, although it comes with cautions. Yogani recommends that this should only be done by experienced practitioners who are stable with their current practice and have ecstatic conductivity in place. That is in order that the practitioner is aware of the changes that are happening within the subtle nervous system because of the additional practices. He also cautions about the "doubling-up effect" that can happen when adding additional practices.
It is good to remember though, that an effective yoga system is not simply a random set of practices bundled together. It is designed carefully to open and purify the subtle nervous system in a specific order and over a specific timeframe (not too fast and not too slowly). This is why the AYP practices are introduced in a specific order and timeframe, and nearly all the practices are carefully timed. If the basic mantra was AYEEM instead of AYAM, the overall purification process would be very different. If we went between the root and the crown (brahma nadi) with spinal breathing, instead of between the root and the third eye (sushumna nadi), then the overall purification process would be very different. So, quite small changes to practice, even within the AYP system of practices, can have potentially quite serious effects in terms of outcomes.
So, adding additional non-AYP practices in to an already full system of yoga practices, will change the process of purification, and not necessarily for the better. It is basically the practitioner's own experiment and we would not be able to predict what happens. See lesson 384 on this.
Christi
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interpaul
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2020 : 3:45:54 PM
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| Nirguna, Thank you for answering my questions. I'm glad #2 amused you although I wasn't trying to be funny. I periodically question my true intentions. In a follow up to your answer to #6 I do experience ecstatic conductivity and have for many months. Inner silence is just starting to emerge and seems to be the key to progress from what I've read. #2 does seem to me to be an important question as we often proceed along believing we understand our true intentions but can often be misled. For me, I struggle with not becoming too attached to the ecstatic conductivity as it is a bit like a drug for me. Ultimately I'd like to be freed from the suffering that comes from ego attachment but I am aware I have a strong attachment to physical pleasure and that is a bit of a stumbling block to me at times on this path. This reminds me a little of people's choice of career. Therapists often will say they went into their profession to help people. Deeper explorations often show they initially chose the career to resolve conflicts from their own childhood. |
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Nirguna
Australia
57 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2020 : 01:25:35 AM
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Hi Christi. Thank you for your response. I am aware of practices you mentioned. Some of them I already use and others I have used previously. I wish to remain pure to AYP but being Under Sensitive makes me look elsewhere. It would be amazing to have more potent techniques in AYP that are reserved for not sensitive practitioners.
I'm curious to know how subtle changes in pronouncing mantra, from lets say, AYEEM or AHAM instead of AYAM, produce different effect in overall purification process?
Another question is, at what point we can safely go to crown? Are there crown practices?
Interpaul. Sorry I am not able better to answer your questions. If you already experience Ecstatic Conductivity after such a short period with AYP, all I can say: Wow! Amazing! |
Edited by - Nirguna on Nov 12 2020 02:48:30 AM |
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uniath
Finland
30 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2020 : 05:57:39 AM
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Hi Nirguna,
It should also be mentioned, that bhakti and surrender have a crucial role in the effectiveness of practices. Same practice done with a strong bhakti and surrender vs low bhakti and in a forced manner, will yield quite different results.
Usually, I would not suggest adding any extreme practices until one has a steady foundation of inner silence and with that, the ability to witness what is happening within the subtle neurobiology without getting lost in the energetic side of things. This applies especially to crown practices.
With that said, Navi Kriya might be worthwhile to look at. And eventually, incorporating whole body mudra to pranayama practices. Higher levels kechari will also enhance your practice by quite a bit. Then there is breath retention, which is a great stimulator of kundalini, which can be incorporated to various practices(not meditation/samyama, unless it happens automatically) to a lesser or greater degree.
There are, of course, extreme practices that are not included in the AYP. Dream Yoga is one of such. It is quite possible to do practices in a dream state, in which the practices are supercharged, but it can take a lot effort, because one has to first be able to stable lucidity within the dream before even beginning. And this may come with a great cost, reducing the quality of sleep and decreasing the quality of daily life, which is opposite of the purpose of AYP.
Regarding crown, the practices we’re doing are purifying it indirectly, as the rest of the nervous system is being purified. There are more direct ways for opening the crown, which are covered if you read through the lessons on crown .
Having gone quite a bit to the extreme side of things, and experienced the ups and downs that inevitably follow, I’ve come to see the wisdom in ”less is more” when it comes to sitting practices. It's about awareness after all, and abiding as the witness to all that goes around us in all circumstances of life. That's where to magic happens. So, practice prudently.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2020 : 08:37:09 AM
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Hi Nirguna,
quote:
I'm curious to know how subtle changes in pronouncing mantra, from lets say, AYEEM or AHAM instead of AYAM, produce different effect in overall purification process?
A mantra such as AYEEM would work more to activate and purify the crown chakra. This is because of the "EE" vibration within the mantra. The AYAM mantra is designed to purify between the root and the third eye, which is a more stable pathway to begin with. So, AYEEM would be less stable for beginners and, used as a stand-alone mantra, would be less stable even for advanced practitioners. It is the root-to-ajna pathway that brings stability over the long term.
quote:
Another question is, at what point we can safely go to crown? Are there crown practices?
As Uniath mentions, there are crown practices in AYP. As for when it is safe to go to the crown, this is different for each individual and there is a testing process which can be used to determine this. The pre-requisite is that ecstatic conductivity should be present. This gives us the ability to be able to feel what is happening at the crown when we bring our attention there, and also to be aware of how this is affecting the rest of the subtle nervous system. This testing process is described in lesson 199:
"Once ecstatic conductivity is occurring, we are in the position to clearly observe for ourselves what the connection is between the gradually awakening crown and the rest of our nervous system. If we put our attention up into the rising flower cup on top of our head, we will feel it pulling us ecstatically upward inside, from the root all the way up. Don't make an extended practice of this, because even with ecstatic conductivity awakened it is possible to overdo and experience excessive energy flows and an emotional letdown afterward. In other words, ecstatic conductivity is not a license to go straight to the crown. But we can experiment a little now and then and get the feel of what is stable and what is not. Usually any slight excess at the crown experienced in this way will only last a few hours, or a day, before the energy balances again." [Yogani]
Once we have established stability at the crown and have been able to remain with our awareness there at the end of each sitting practice for many months, we can use targeted spinal bastrika, between the root and the crown if we wish to. The pre-requisites for this practice are the same as those for spinal bastrika.
Christi |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2020 : 5:12:26 PM
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Thanks for sharing, Nirguna. It's interesting to hear from an under sensitive practitioner. We hear a lot from over sensitive ones on these forums. 
May I ask how long you have been practicing yoga? I see you have been a member of the AYP forum for about 5 years. Is that roughly when you started your AYP practice?
I wonder if it's at all possible that you might be underestimating the amount of progress you have been making. I think Yogani has said before that it is the level of inner silence that is the true indicator of progress, even tough people tend to notice the ecstatic conductivity more (it is by far the more eventful side of things). |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2020 : 01:07:34 AM
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Dear Nirguna
You are certainly an interesting case
You mentioned that you do self-inquiry. May I ask how is that going for you? What is your level of awareness of the Witness or if you are beyond the emergence of the Witness, are you able to discriminate what is "you" and what are "mental events"?
What is your felt sense of "I am" (the self)?
Sey
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Nirguna
Australia
57 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2020 : 01:48:30 AM
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Thank you agan Christi and thank you uniath. I read your input twice already. I will read them again and try all your recomendations.
Hi SeySorciere. I am far from that Witness level you metioned. I do feel that is the next step for me. I have small inner silence present. Barely enough for Samyama.
Hi BlueRaincoat. I always love reading your posts and I feel so glad you find my sharing interesting.
I have been with AYP for more than 7 years and not at all underestimating the amount of progress that I have made. Quite the opposite. Extremely gratefull for having AYP, Yogani and support of you.
I have to admit that I have Ecstatic Conductivity present but no fireworks. Just mild orgasmic flow happening. When it comes to Abiding Inner Silence, that is not present yet. Maybe a little but far from Abiding nature. So, if that is an indicator of progress, then I still have a long way to go. I have strong devotion to practice and not pushing or exerting myself in any sense. Actually, it is very enjoyable and I am conscious of overloading and burnouts that others experience.
I have been on a plateau for some years now so I have huge drive for: whats next, let's go to the next level... Hopefully one day I will arrive at what advanced practitioners like to indicate as "less is more".
More Inner Silence, especially Abiding one would be so.... yummy!!! Hopefully I will not have to wait too long for it to be part of my everyday experience.
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Edited by - Nirguna on Nov 13 2020 03:20:14 AM |
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sunyata
USA
1506 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2020 : 06:42:39 AM
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Hello Nirguna,
Good advice from All. Everything is covered. May I ask what’s your life outside of practices? What do you do? Please feel free to not respond to this question if you’re not inclined.
Sunyata
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Edited by - sunyata on Nov 13 2020 06:43:27 AM |
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Nirguna
Australia
57 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2020 : 08:55:06 AM
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Hi Sunyata.
I got happily stuck in Ashram in Rishikesh, India, next to beautiful Ganga. My intention was to do 40 day retreat but it turned out to be much longer one. My life outside of practice is mainly nature and I have a big passion for music. At the moment I am practising song for Adiyogi, from Isha album Damaru. It is quite mantric and I get intoxicated on Bhakti. There is a Devi temple with spring water nearby. Drinking her water is like Amrita to me. Mother Ganga is flowing at my doorstep. Many temples are serving free food for babas. I join them frequently. Feeling blessed and fortunate to be here in such crazy times. |
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sunyata
USA
1506 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2020 : 11:53:51 AM
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Hi Nirguna,
Sounds wonderful. Enjoy.
Patience, surrender and grace are three powerful practices that comes to mind in addition to what others have already mentioned.
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Edited by - sunyata on Nov 13 2020 12:46:24 PM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2020 : 10:49:30 PM
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Dear Nirguna
Are you at peace?
I get the sense that you are living Inner Silence and not recognizing it for what it is.
Sey
P.S. Reminds me of a French author who starts his book - “For as long as I can remember I can hear the ocean” and my immediate thought was that’s nonsense. For as long as I remember I cannot hear the ocean... until I left the island and was deeply disturbed by an absence.... absence of the sound of the ocean.
Perhaps you have always lived in inner silence.
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Edited by - SeySorciere on Nov 13 2020 10:56:26 PM |
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Nirguna
Australia
57 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2020 : 02:04:08 AM
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Hi Sey.
I'm at peace and feeling contentment with life. My understanding of inner silence is absence of thought procesess, but maybe I am wrong. I don't know yet. I feel tiny snippets of awareness without mind content. Not sure yet if that is inner silence, presence or stillness. Nothing abiding that is for sure. I'm curious to know. If you can share some light on this I would be very grateful. Thank you.
A while ago, Yogani advised me not to manage anything. Especially not to try to stop thinking. So, since then, I am just enjoying practices, sticking to the procedures the best I can, and letting results be what they are. Without expecting anything. |
Edited by - Nirguna on Nov 14 2020 02:25:06 AM |
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Practice duration
