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 Discussions on AYP Deep Meditation and Samyama
 New to DM am I doing it right?
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bbqmaster

Canada
7 Posts

Posted - Jul 08 2020 :  12:17:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hello all,

I'm new to AYP but not new to yoga in general. Not at all experienced with DM. Started DM as instructed in the AYP lessons since about a week ago and this thing keeps happening.

My breath gets slow and silent on the inhale, then explosive (but effortless) on exhale, much like during sleep. I then seem to be very aware of the Centre of my skull (Ajna presumably?) and random imagery tends to appear there. All this time I'm trying to stay with I Am mantra.

It then feels like something is opening or expanding inside my skull - and I try not to think about it as we are not supposed to localize the mantra, but it seems very easy to kind of get lost in that imagery. When I do, the mantra stops. When I get back to the mantra, the images vanish for a bit.

I guess my question is, am I doing it right or am I just falling asleep?

Edited by - bbqmaster on Jul 08 2020 12:18:47 PM

Christi

United Kingdom
3750 Posts

Posted - Jul 11 2020 :  07:03:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi bbqmaster,

Yes, your practice is correct. Whenever you notice that you are off the mantra, simply easily favour the mantra with your attention again. So, it does not matter if your attention is being drawn away by thoughts, or imagery in the mind, or sensations, or the breath. Simply follow the procedure of easily favouring the mantra, over anything else happening.

In terms of location of the mantra, the mantra will tend to move to different locations in the body, depending on where the inner purification is needed. Or, it may take no location at all. If you notice that the mantra is locating in a particular place, treat that noticing as any other thought and favour the mantra with your attention.

The process of deep meditation will cause many things to happen in the subtle neurobiology, but it is important to remain with the practice rather than getting lost in the scenery of the transformations that are taking place.

The sensation of feeling as if you are falling asleep, can also happen during meditation, especially as the mind begins to become quieter. This is just a stage on the path and will pass.


Christi
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bbqmaster

Canada
7 Posts

Posted - Jul 11 2020 :  08:48:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the reply Christi! I guess I needed some confirmation that this is normal. Happens almost instantly when I start thinking the mantra, in the morning.

Here's another detail question: when you think the mantra, it's like saying it to yourself over and over again in your own voice, right? Or do you ever listen to try to hear the mantra?

Thanks again!
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Christi

United Kingdom
3750 Posts

Posted - Jul 11 2020 :  09:04:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi bbqmaster,

Yes, the technique is to repeat the mantra over and over, silently in the mind. At a certain stage in the process, the mantra can become automatic, and if this happens we are then "hearing" the mantra repeating, rather than repeating it deliberately.

But stopping the mantra in order to listen to see if you can hear it or not, is not part of the practice. That would be a listening practice (listening for something that may or may not be there) and that is not what AYP Deep Meditation is. There are schools of yoga that do do this as a practice, and it is called "Nada Yoga".


Christi
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bbqmaster

Canada
7 Posts

Posted - Jul 11 2020 :  7:07:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a lot, that was very helpful I will not try to listen for it anymore.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3750 Posts

Posted - Jul 12 2020 :  08:37:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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bbqmaster

Canada
7 Posts

Posted - Jul 20 2020 :  1:14:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a quick update, about 20 days or so into it. DM is starting to feel really powerful. To the point where I've cut down on SBP from 5 mins to about 2-3 mins. I'm also doing some beginner level nadi shodhana with kumbhaka pre-sbp, and I had to cut that down from 10 mins to about 5 mins also.

The DM continues like I mentioned in my first post, I quickly go into a sort of dreamlike state. Coming out of it, if I try I can remember bits of the thoughts I had but most are forgotten, like a dream when waking up. I know they're just scenery :). I must be doing something right though, because the ecstatic element is increasingly there during dm. It's starting to feel like energy work, which is why I've cut down on the pranayamas.

As soon as I start thinking ayam the centre of my skull 'opens' and quickly becomes filled with pleasure. That is not entirely new, I've experienced it on psychedelics. However for a few days now, the ecstasy has expanded to the back of my skull. The mantra resonates throughout the spine, right? There is a point there, right where the spine joins the skull. It was so intense today that I felt like sticking a couple fingers in there, to try to feel inside It doesn't happen every time I sit, but often enough.

Guys, what's at the back / base of the skull?

At other times there is a LOT of activity down there Also my breath slows down considerably, and stops for short intervals (5-10 seconds). It stops right where the lungs want to stop after a casual exhale, there is still air inside and no voluntary pressure on the abdomen. Is this how it's supposed to happen & develop?

Anyway the dm is clearly starting to overflow into daily life in beneficial ways, and although there is some increased irritability it is manageable. I am feeling so happy & blessed today, which is most unusual since Monday mornings are saved for anger & anxiety & being miserable. My breath is very balanced / open on both nostrils almost all day long, every day.

Good signs right? Thanks guys just wanted to share
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Christi

United Kingdom
3750 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2020 :  06:42:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi bbqmaster,

On the back of the head there are a number of minor chakras. When they activate it can feel quite intense and ecstatic. As you say, it is just scenery and will pass in time.

And yes, spontaneous breath suspension (kumbhaka) can start to happen. It is caused by the relationship between the mind, breath and subtle energy in the body. When the mind begins to calm down, the subtle energy flows begin to temporarily suspend and this can cause the breath to suspend as well. It is nothing to be concerned about. Your body will need less oxygen at these times, as the functions of the body are being partially supported by prana. When you need to breathe again, it will happen. Powerful purification happens during these moments of spontaneous kumbhaka.

You may find the second answer from this lesson helpful:

Lesson 378 - How Does Pranayama Awaken Kundalini?

And these lesson additions:

Addition 378.2 - Natural vs. Intentional Kumbhaka (Breath Retention)

Addition 378.3 - The Breathless State


Christi
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bbqmaster

Canada
7 Posts

Posted - Aug 23 2020 :  12:13:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi, Hi all,

Many thanks for the great advice & pointers! Just thought I'd check in, it's been about 2 months of AYP and there are fireworks going on.

The mantra has 'cleared up' my spine starting from the centre of my head all the way down to the root. There is a constant tingle going on in the spine, most of the time (except when really tired). And as soon as I sit down for dm the whole spine activates. I am not feeling a nerve yet, it is more the size of a sausage! A thick continuous sausage from my head to the perineum

As soon as I start paying attention to this vibration or buzz in the spine, the mantra becomes wordless and other energy fireworks begin to happen. I am about 99% sure that this feeling in the spine IS the mantra. As I start it verbally, it is in my head. I let it go and it very quickly becomes faint and goes to that spot at the back of my head, and then down and into the spine, and all is left is this feeling in the spine. I occasionally verbalize it (in my mind) just to make sure I am still on track, and when I do it comes back to the centre of the head. It feels like I am still on track, still with the mantra, nonverbally. Which brings me to my first question:

Q1: How can I be absolutely sure that this feeling is indeed a nonverbal aspect of the mantra? Is there any way to 'test'?

This feeling in the spine is not new. It is just more obvious now. Very similar to being aroused, but it happens in random parts like in my neck or at the base of my spine. Focusing on this buzz in the spine is very ecstatic. As this feeling builds up, I tried Shambhavi (which felt very awkward when 'cold') and some crazy fireworks happened within seconds. Strong energy buildup at the base of my spine, like an ecstatic pressure. Very cool-headed though, I was sitting there watching it and then wondering how come I can be so calm... Lasted a good 10-15 minutes. Anyway this happened several times already. It was very interesting to see how the ecstatic component activated the otherwise dead Shambhavi!

Which brings me to my second question.

Q2: Is this the Kundalini and is it ok to activate this on purpose? Obviously it feels great but is it ok to just stay with it for as long as it wants to continue?

I suspect there is some house cleaning going on during these times as I experience some fatigue hours later and I need to nap. No other ill effects so far, hence my question.

It is definitely Ayam that activates this... If a thought does this... All I can say is I have become quite mindful of what I think during the day!

I think the journey has just begun. Thanks in advance for the kind replies!
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Christi

United Kingdom
3750 Posts

Posted - Aug 23 2020 :  2:26:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi bbqmaster,

As the mantra refines, it will be the same mantra, going to increasingly subtle levels of vibration. The vibration of the mantra will move to where it is needed in the body. It has its own intelligence. When you notice that you are off the mantra, come back to the mantra at a comfortable level of pronunciation. This is described in the instructions in lesson 13:

"When you come back to it, come back to a level that is comfortable, not straining for either a clear or fuzzy pronunciation." [Yogani]

quote:
Q2: Is this the Kundalini and is it ok to activate this on purpose? Obviously it feels great but is it ok to just stay with it for as long as it wants to continue?


In answer to the second question, yes this is kundalini. The general advice given in the lessons is to do your practices for the allotted timespan (usually 20 minutes twice a day for meditation) and then go out and live your life, fully engaging in normal social activity and work. This is in order to remain balanced and grounded, as the energy does its work in the body. It is not safe to simply sit with your attention on the kundalini energy for as long as it wants to continue. This could very easily lead to energetic overload and the need to reduce practices.

It is best to practice for the recommended time, take a short rest as needed, and then go out and live your life. This will lead to faster progress over the long term.


Christi
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bbqmaster

Canada
7 Posts

Posted - Aug 23 2020 :  3:02:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi bbqmaster,

As the mantra refines, it will be the same mantra, going to increasingly subtle levels of vibration.



Is there any way to be sure I am still on the mantra when it is nonverbal?

Is it possible to come back to the mantra at a nonverbal level, by intention/feel only?
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Christi

United Kingdom
3750 Posts

Posted - Aug 23 2020 :  4:02:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi bbqmaster,

Yes, when you realize that you are off the mantra and you come back to it, you can come back to it at a level that is comfortable for you. So, that could be a verbalized level of the mantra - the "thought" vibration of AYAM, clearly recognised in the mind as a word, or a non-verbalized level of the mantra, at a more subtle energetic level, if it was at that level of vibration, before you lost it.

See this post from Yogani:


"It should also be pointed out that coming back to the mantra does not necessarily mean coming back to a clear pronunciation every time. The mantra can become very faint and fuzzy in the mind. In that case, when we realize we are off it, we can come back to the faint fuzzy feeling of the mantra where we left off. If we come back and the mantra wants to be a clear pronunciation (it can happen), then we go with that. Wherever we are in the mind, clear or faint, that is where we pick up the mantra. Clear pronunciation is not the key thing. The sense of what the mantra is in our present mental state, whatever that is, is what we come back to. We don't have to take the mental process anywhere else. We just continue wherever we are in the mind.

In the Secrets of Wilder novel, the process of the mantra refining (becoming fuzzy) is described with caps and italics, with the mantra going I AM, I Am, i am, i am ... fading naturally to faintness and unclear pronunciation like that. This is normal. When we come back to the mantra, we come back wherever we are, whether it be I AM or i am ... or to something that is so deep that it can't be spelled at all, just a faint feeling... That is why we call it "deep meditation."

One place on the spectrum is not better than another. We do not try for faintness with the mantra. We just let it happen whenever it does. We do not try for clear pronunciation. We just let it happen whenever it does. It is a natural process, and we cannot make it be one thing or another. It is our unique process of inner purification and opening that determines where we are with the mantra in the mind. We do not determine it.... We pick up the mantra and let it go where it will. And wherever we are is where we ease back to it when we realize we are off it." [Yogani]


Be careful not to over-analyse the process. It is very simple and very easy. If you find yourself analysing what is going on, including wondering if you are on the mantra or not, then treat that as any other thought arising in the mind, and easily favour the mantra instead.


Christi
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bbqmaster

Canada
7 Posts

Posted - Aug 26 2020 :  12:28:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Christi
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