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 Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality)
 Self Inquiry & Loneliness
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DevOcean

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - May 28 2020 :  03:12:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hi guys,

Ive been meditating for almost 9years. I regularly come to the recognition of the Self and experience God as Love/Awareness.

However outside of meditation I feel like a failure due a catastrophic collapse of a relationship caused by an awakening/psychosis brought on by a combination of ayahuasca, weed, meditation and stress.

After many awakening experiences Ive realised that even the most enlightened thoughts are still just thoughts.

I find it very rare to make authentic connections with others and now I have lost someone I love. Through therapy I come to recognise that I am very lonely even though I have loving family and friends.

Have come here to ask if anyone else on this path has gone through this or is going through it and if they have any insights.

At times i really feel like Ive had enough of life and have failed at love.

I dont feel this way all the time. Meditation exposes this as simply imagination but the feeling keeps returning.

Im also finding therapy once a week helpful but again the benefit is temporary.

I hope by coming here perhaps I can connect with others on this strange journey and find guidance.

BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1592 Posts

Posted - May 28 2020 :  05:57:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi DevOcean

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.

quote:
Originally posted by DevOcean
After many awakening experiences Ive realised that even the most enlightened thoughts are still just thoughts.


Yes, an effective meditation practice usually leads to much more (or some might say much less ) than thoughts. It takes us beyond thinking.

A lot of self-enquiry, without having done the groundwork, leads to theoretical constructions in the mind that have little to do with true enlightenment. What form of meditation do you practice?
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DevOcean

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - May 28 2020 :  08:50:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thankyou Blueraincoat.

Youre right, eventually through meditation the mind settles completely and there is just awareness. Here of course there is no problem.

Im not sure what the form is called. I just observe the sense I & I am.

What kind of thing do you mean by groundwork?
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1592 Posts

Posted - May 28 2020 :  12:02:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by DevOcean
What kind of thing do you mean by groundwork?


By 'doing the groundwork' I meant cultivating the Witness with an effective form of meditation.

Focusing on the meaning of "I am" feeds the thinking. It is not an effective way to develop the Witness.

We do "I AM" meditation here too, but use a procedure that is different than yours in a very important point.

If I may make a suggestion, go to Lesson 13 on this website or click the Meditation link on the left of the page. Try this meditation for a few months and you will see the difference better than I can explain it in words.

All the best
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DevOcean

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - May 28 2020 :  1:03:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thankyou, I will do that
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maheswari

Lebanon
2390 Posts

Posted - May 28 2020 :  1:21:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello DevOcean and welcome to ayp
yes, many are familiar with what you described
On drugs and their temporary experiences and thoughts, check this lesson
https://www.aypsite.org/307.html

On loneliness, maybe it is aloness, see if this lesson rings a bell
https://www.aypsite.org/392.html

With time, the aloness feeling will become less and less.You will know that you are alone yet not alone. You will feel that you are alone, yet you participate wholeheartedly in life. So it is not either or, it is both opposites at the same time, which makes them and you whole.All that is done in living a normal daily life and doing whatever you have to do
Truly the only authentic relationship is with yourself, only when you mature into that, then you will radiate it outwards to people.People will not change but it is you that changed and is acting from wholeness.
Continue with therapy, it helps ,that was my experience too
Do you have current yoga practices. If so, what are they ?
Also what do you do in life if i may ask


Edited by - maheswari on May 28 2020 1:26:04 PM
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interpaul

USA
145 Posts

Posted - May 28 2020 :  4:33:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
DevOcean, I have had a similar experience to you with magic mushrooms years ago. There is much talk lately of the benefits of marijuana and other hallucinogens/entheogens. I think most of us who end up experimenting with meditation or hallucinogens often approach life with a deep curiosity and desire to tap into the mysteries and greater truths below the surface. The problem from my perspective is these short cuts thrust the individual, prepared or not into a completely different realm. Once experiencing this trauma it can take a very long time to reground oneself. After a traumatic dissociative experience, meditation can reactivate some of those dissociative feelings. If done thoughtfully, healing can occur, if not, it can cause further fragmentation. Yogani has outlined a very safe and slow method for deeper exploration. I would start at the beginning of his practices and heed his advice to proceed slowly. He shares lessons that can be read in a short time but can take years to develop. Just like the drugs, pushing quickly into intense practices will only lead to more imbalance. Continue in therapy as that can help with gaining perspective. Good luck to you and welcome to the forum.
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DevOcean

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - May 29 2020 :  03:29:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Maheswari - thankyou for the welcome. Both of those articles you shared resonate.

I dont currently have any Yoga practice. Life is fairly simple day by day. I interact mostly with my parents, cat, sister and therapist and make a living as an artist. In free time I go for walks, read, watch Youtube & movies and meditate. Therapy has definitely improved my interactions and communication with others and compliments my meditation practice and the way Im currently perceiving/experiencing. For example often now in conversation there only seems the moment and identity drops away completely. It becomes free flowing, joyful and light hearted but also feels a bit like surfing a wave.

Interpaul Thankyou. Psychedelics are no longer an option for me so Ill be taking things slow and steady from now on.
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maheswari

Lebanon
2390 Posts

Posted - May 29 2020 :  04:26:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello DevOcean
Meditation is a yoga practice. What type pf meditation do you do? How long is each session?
Do you watch spiritual videos or chanting on you tube? If so, that is yoga practice too
Sometimes too much practices can lead to overload, meaning too much physical and emotional obstructions being cleared at the same time. So if one feels some discomfort in daily life then it is good to cut down the time of your meditation practice. Also it is recommended to rest for 10 min after meditation then carry one with your activities. Doing more grounding activities (meaning mundane stuff) helps to ground your practice, You seem to do that by walking,
interacting with family and through art.So more grounding and maybe bit less of yoga practice if you feel so.
Check lesson 350
https://www.aypsite.org/350.html
Some parts of this lesson might describe your current experience. As for the other parts of the lesson, just disregard them for now.
all the best
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DevOcean

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - May 29 2020 :  06:16:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Maheswari I begin with the sense of I and observe thoughts as they come up, catching any Ior me/my thought and follow it to its source. Eventually this leads to the recognition I am, the experience of being/existance prior to thought. Sometimes this is a recognition of God/Brahman, The Self or simply nothingness/awareness.

I do sometimes watch some spiritual teachers such as Rupert Spira and Mooji.

Thankyou for sharing these articles. I really appreciate there being a place to explore this outside of therapy
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maheswari

Lebanon
2390 Posts

Posted - May 29 2020 :  09:21:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
How long is yr meditation session? How many sessions per day?
there are many excellent lessons and practices in ayp, but if your current practice works for you , there is no need to change your system , just maybe self pace a bit if needed (including reducing the time for watching teachers videos)
Since you are inclined to Vedanta, in ayp we differentiate between relational and non relational enquiry. Only the first comes from the maturity of the developed inner silence , then vedanta becomes a way of life and interaction in all aspects of life including the mundane and all the emotional blockages we have.Whereas non relational enquiry is parrots repeating vedanta jargon without any inner silence, it is a form of avoiding/denying life and creating an illusionary safe place.Often yoga practices in many schools are used to create that illusionary world, creating more separation instead of unity.
Check this out
https://www.aypsite.org/325.html
and try to see if you are in relational or non relational enquiry

Edited by - maheswari on May 29 2020 09:21:45 AM
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DevOcean

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - May 29 2020 :  10:35:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
On average I would say each session is 20-30minutes, 3 times a day.

Ive just started including the Pranayama and found it compliments the meditation well.

Yes, Im not so interested in jargon. After reading the article I would say Im in relational inquiry.
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1592 Posts

Posted - May 30 2020 :  04:09:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
there is no need to change your system , just maybe self pace a bit if needed (including reducing the time for watching teachers videos)


I am going to disagree with maheswari on this one point.
The AYP deep meditation (Lesson 13 or, if you are oversensitive, replacing the mantra with the breath as meditation object) is worth experimenting with. Then you will know for yourself if changing your practice would be beneficial. You will know in a few weeks or months.

Yes, self pacing is very important, even more so in your case. A history of drug use can make the energy erratic and the awakening uncomfortable. I would say it's more important to get the meditation right than add lots of energy stimulating practices.

Take care and all the best

Edited by - BlueRaincoat on May 30 2020 04:14:10 AM
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maheswari

Lebanon
2390 Posts

Posted - May 30 2020 :  04:33:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello BRC
yes of course, the choice is DevOcean choice from all the advises he (or she?) gets. I am glad you are putting your own perspective.It is about seeing what one is inclined to do and trial and error till we find a balance
@Devocean: mixing practices from different systems is not recommended. So if you started SBP , it is better to use it with with DM. So maybe you should go as per BRC advice. You need to find out for yourself and as BRC said it needs few weeks at least to know
Also 3 sessions is a lot, better to cut down to 2 sessions.Get busy in more mundane tasks to ground.
If you decide to experiment with ayp, then it is only 2 sessions per day

Edited by - maheswari on May 30 2020 04:34:24 AM
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1592 Posts

Posted - May 30 2020 :  07:49:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Maha
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