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 Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality)
 Question: who knows there is awareness
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NoDogma

USA
123 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2020 :  2:06:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message

From what I've read/listened,
(a) there is a subject and an object. The object is perceived by subject but the object can not perceive the subject (a perceiver can not be perceived by one being perceived).
(b) (I might be misquoting this) people describe things like awareness is rising or rising of silent witness or I am aware of awareness watching thoughts (note that I am not talking about 'i am awareness' as yet, but just that there is awareness watching thoughts).

But the awareness is the subject and thoughts/mind are the object. It is the mind which is saying "there is awarness" or 'silent witness is rising'.

How does the mind (object) know this ?

Thank you, and wish you blissful 2020.


p.s. just fyi I've been doing some AYP combined with Kriya (these days it's Hariharanada because I moved to CHicago) for few years now. Recently, I've been dipping into self-inquiry quite a bit.

Presence Light

Algeria
16 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2020 :  4:35:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi NoDogma

According to my opinion, at an initial stage of your dissolution, the mind has a little silence and likes it, and it is related to creating speculation about its experience as usual. It moves on two dimensions (I and what I realize) this is his nature in I saw things so we know that his awareness is prejudged by his dual nature, everything in existence has a perception according to his location whenever he expands the more he experiences the cognitive dimensions that contain before him.
So it was a solution to a puzzle with the addition of a third dimension (seen above diminishing and smiling unconditionally)
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1229 Posts

Posted - Jan 03 2020 :  05:56:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear NoDogma,

Your first proposition does not sound right. If I (subject) am looking at you (object) , then for sure you can look right back at me. There is also a famous saying, if you stare into the abyss long enough, the abyss will stare right back at you.

As to how does the mind know this - Yogani would call it a paradox. You can only experience it for yourself through practices. No amount of telling you about it will help.

Good luck in your seeking.


Sey


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NoDogma

USA
123 Posts

Posted - Jan 03 2020 :  12:53:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you PresenseLight and SeySorciere.

Paradox is an explanation i can take and reduce the doubts about what i am perceiving. Although some doubts will help stay on track and not go into imaginations/.
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NoDogma

USA
123 Posts

Posted - Jan 03 2020 :  8:35:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey SeySorciere,

somehow your example of you looking at me and me looking at you doesn't feel right. You're looking at my body unless you've reached where you're looking something deeper (and then you and me are one for you). On the other hand, my eyes are looking at you, the image is reflected and my sees your body only since I am not able to see you ..

my question was beyond body/mind and you might be there, but you've not told me who is perceiving.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3731 Posts

Posted - Jan 04 2020 :  03:19:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi NoDogma,

You are the one who is aware of what is happening. If you are looking at a tree, then there is the perceiver of the tree (the person), the tree, and the process of perception. You are aware of all three of those things, and are not any of them. You could say that all three of them appear on the screen of your consciousness.

Usually we identify as the perceiver (the person). We think we are the one who sees, hears, thinks and so on. Through the process of yoga, we begin to realize that we are neither the perceiver or the perceived and this is a part of the process of Self-realization. In other words, we are coming to know who we really are, as pure consciousness (sat chit ananda).

The process of coming to this realization takes time. The first step is the cultivation of the witness. This means cultivating the ability to allow mental objects to arise without identifying with them, or getting caught up in them. Once we have cultivated the witness and have some degree of inner silence present, then we can begin self-inquiry practice. There is a gradual process of the falling away of identification with mental objects that occurs over time, including identification with the perceiver. The perceiver of objects simply exists in the mind as an object of the mind. It is a thought, like any other, and is impermanent.


You may find these three lessons useful:

Lesson 122 - Witnessing

Lesson 350 - Practices for Moving Beyond the Witness Stage

Lesson 357 - Who is the Perceiver?


and this discussion in the AYP Plus forum:

Spinal Breathing Pranayama in stillness


Christi
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Blanche

USA
625 Posts

Posted - Jan 04 2020 :  07:58:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi NoDogma,

There is a saying: “Knowledge is different at different levels of consciousness.” When we start yoga, we discriminate between subject, object, and the process of perception. We may even believe that this is an objective point of view, in a pure material world, and these three things have an independent existence. As we progress, we may notice that the triad subject-perception–object exist in our mind. As Christi writes, we may realize that subject-perception-object are only thoughts in the mind. At this stage, inquiry starts to have an effect. If “I” is only a thought, who am I really? What is this? Just working with concepts at the level of the mind will not take one beyond it. The answer is beyond the mind.

Here is where yoga comes into play. Yoga works by dissolving our identification with the objects of perception. We get to see that “I am not this,” while “you are not that.” Eventually, I/you are everything; you are the abyss, and the abyss stares back to you. You are everything, but there is not the same you who started the journey. You are everything because you are nothing; there is no specific, impermanent identification.

If all these things do not quite make sense, it is normal. It refers to something beyond the mind. You could think about the mind as a powerful program that runs on your laptop. Until you find a way to close this program – to settle the activity of the mind, as Patanjali says – it is hard to see beyond it. The AYP practices are very effective in accomplishing just that, when they are followed daily, for a long time.
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NoDogma

USA
123 Posts

Posted - Jan 04 2020 :  12:35:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all.

I was doubting if the witness/awareness/consciousness that is there, is just a creation of my mind i.e. whether my mind is fooling itself.

During meditation there is Inner silence/awareness, bliss, ecstatic conductivity etc. and thoughts seem to appear in the nothing and they disappear. There seems to be a no-thought state because I aware of some time between thoughts (again, is this awareness of time lapse a thought ? the realization that some time has passed after previous thought seems to happens when the new thought appears).

I am continuing my practice. I do Spinal Breathing (well, in kriya format), Jyoti Mudra, Maha Mudra (and some other things), AYAM meditation and silent meditation. I have started spending my spare time in self-inquiry.

btw, i will start reading the self-inquiry booklet (by Yogani) again.

thanks again.



Edited by - NoDogma on Jan 04 2020 2:28:34 PM
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