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 Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
 Inner silence, the witness and self hypnosis
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interpaul

USA
70 Posts

Posted - Dec 18 2019 :  7:29:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Prior to finding AYP I did some explorations in hypnosis. Initially I happened upon erotic hypnosis. I found this genre during a period when I was working to escape from being under the spell of pornography. I found my sexual energy easily directed towards "mindless" states. Although the intention of erotic hypnosis seems to be to have orgasmic experiences I quickly realized something more profound was going on. I soon learned to do self hypnosis and discovered some very deep states of mind that seem identical to the inner silence achieved in deep meditation. In the same way AYP practices, particularly the tantra practices, take our sexual energy and channel them into more spiritual energies, I found the same for hypnosis. My question is if anyone else has experienced this. I still find my blissful states are deeper with self hypnosis than in deep meditation but the two are so complimentary that I find I am going deeper into inner silence with DM as a result of my prior experiences in hypnosis. The only challenge, as I've shared some, is the risk of energy overload when I have done both practices (I know Yogani clearly suggests not adding other energy practices on top of the standard ones). I have thought of self hypnosis as solo tantra as I currently have a wife who is unwilling to participate in sexual relations at present as I've shared in the past.

Dogboy

USA
1682 Posts

Posted - Dec 21 2019 :  8:32:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Interpaul

I “double up” energetic practices beyond my basic AYP with rare consequence, which I attribute to the vast knowledge accessible on this site regarding how to steer my ship. It is our responsibility to gauge how much is too much. Experience is your guide forward.

Your self hypnosis does sound like a tantra practice. I have little experience with self hypnosis so I can’t help you there, but if you are experiencing bliss and arousal from it, and feel comfortable you have a mastery of it, then enjoy, and treat the practice with the respect you give your daily meditation. If you overload, remove self hypnosis first.

As you have a history of attachments (pornography), be mindful there, especially if you are stressing about your marriage predicament. I know you have taken up samyama; if you are concerned about attachment, you can hand it off there on a daily basis.

Everything you do is supported by your DM practice.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1200 Posts

Posted - Dec 23 2019 :  01:30:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Interpaul,

The major difference between Self -hypnosis and AYP practices is that with self hypnosis you achieve states of bliss and “mindless-ness” during the practice, right? AYP is not about temporary states achieved during practice times. It’s about positive improvements of your daily life and relationships - a natural blissful flow of life. States of bliss and mindless-ness spontaneously arises in daily life and eventually 24/7.
I beg to differ with Dogboy here. Self-hypnosis in the context you are presenting here is fraught with the danger of falling back into sexual attachments with you fooling yourself that it is all for a spiritual purpose. I would drop the practice and stick to AYP. But of course, it is entirely up to you.

Good luck on your path


Sey

P.S. Edited to add - Hypnotism, I understand is an exploration of our sub-conscious. The sub-conscious is part of mind, where our tendencies, fears and what-not are stored, while we are trying to transcend mind, the super-conscious rather than the sub-conscious.


Edited by - SeySorciere on Dec 23 2019 01:39:32 AM
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interpaul

USA
70 Posts

Posted - Dec 23 2019 :  12:52:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dogboy and SeySorceire, Thank you for weighing in on my question. There is wisdom in what both of you say. A little push back SeySorciere. Maybe it is just me but AYP practices feel equally indulgent to me, that is, they have a highly sexualized feel. I am channeling sexual energies up and down with SBP. Kechari and siddhasana are very arousing. Striving to be preorgasmic places my attention in a very sexual place. For me, self hypnosis is a way to channel some of this sexual energy in a different way. Over the last few months my experience has been a gradual, and sometimes precipitous, building of sexual energy. The AYP teachings, as best I understand them, are to build this preorgasmic energy as fuel for a spiritual transformation (with DM as the grounding technique to generate inner silence/witness). I have repeatedly self paced, scaling back on practices to avoid being overwhelmed with this growing energy. As I slowly build up the practices, the energy quickly returns and, although I am slowly getting better at channeling it(not being overwhelmed), the preorgasmic energy is a reality. Maybe I am missing something here or maybe my prior attachments fuel this process.

On a completely separate note, as a person interested in neuroscience, these explorations are deeply fascinating for me and fall outside of the realm of the scientific method. On those grounds alone, the journey has been very worthwhile even if I am "fooling yourself" but I do hear your message loud and clear about the trappings of thinking hypnosis is a spiritual practice. I see the hypnosis as a practice that helps me cope with the building sexual energy. I am hopeful my AYP practices will mature to a point that I can let go of the novelty of hypnosis.
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kumar ul islam

United Kingdom
699 Posts

Posted - Dec 23 2019 :  3:16:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
the novelty of enlightenment the experience of growth, maturity ,a never ending ebb and flow of the universe, an individual may experience all of these or none, but the stream of being continues ,the flower reaches its peak at some point a moment of pure ecstatic bliss in the ream of flowerness then the dissolution a decline in observational experience from its own point of view or place ,are we not the flower reaching for light truth and creation through practice, self awareness coupled with a sense of what we think maybe our right or destiny ,the truth often fades before our eyes understanding becomes more or less about how we are performing for the audience in which we are set, illness old age etc become the measure of our progress or desire ,truth is only truth when you can live in it even imagination can take you only so far ,the heart has only so many beats, knowing the silence finds you in a space filled with terms where meaning becomes useless but they exist all the same ,bliss is a word just like the rest how you reach this can be in a multitude of ways part of ebb and flow of humanness, sustainable highly unlikely, overtime like everything its created sustained and then transformed if we believe any different then to say eternity is eternal is not understand what forever is .
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Dogboy

USA
1682 Posts

Posted - Dec 23 2019 :  6:49:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
bliss is a word just like the rest how you reach this can be in a multitude of ways part of ebb and flow of humanness, sustainable highly unlikely, overtime like everything its created sustained and then transformed if we believe any different then to say eternity is eternal is not understand what forever is


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interpaul

USA
70 Posts

Posted - Dec 24 2019 :  2:08:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Kumar ul islam, Your response is very poetic, as always, and very challenging for my rational mind. I've read it a few times and am able to glimpse the truths you point to. I suspect some day I will look back on these discussions with new understanding of your message. I struggle in some mundane and practical aspects of my practices, you seem to live in a place of mystical wonder.

In the section Dogboy quoted you have pointed out the transient nature of bliss which is a bit different from Yogani's message of 24/7 ecstatic bliss. I'm curious in your real world, poetry free, experience if you have found ecstatic bliss a part of your life?
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kumar ul islam

United Kingdom
699 Posts

Posted - Dec 25 2019 :  06:47:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It's all real and we sustain that reality in whichever view you wish to perceive from the extreme of nationalism to religion it's only an aspect or fragment that we serve , truth can be an empty space or a fullness from which all form and thought flow or enter bliss being an aspect of this ,attaining anything constant requires effort and between states there is change ,we are one form with continuas change within a bigger form that is continually changing ,is there a constant behind or beyond the flux a 24/7 bliss or enlightenment my conclusion at the moment is no but then everything changes transforms so a contradiction in itself ,potential achievement or peak experience remain for us on many levels unlike the flower that has its awakening of fullness covered in sunlight and releasing its colour for the universe to see and take notice we on the other hand on a sensual level bask in the sunlight pick the flower take it indoors and create another reality and bow and serve it ,practice allows the stepping outside of this and seeing the action for what it seems ,to be karma seen . I live a pretty mundane life but all is a wonder one that changes second by second hour by hour day by day an ebb and flow at its peak a joyous randevous with the stream of God like feeling to the human narrative of want and satisfy appetites and everything Inbetween ,the practices really change the way change happens you become the liberator not anyone or anything else choice becomes a real option personal freedom lies in this pathway I think yogani can only put so much into words the rest is your guru .



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interpaul

USA
70 Posts

Posted - Dec 26 2019 :  12:37:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Kumar ul islam, Thanks for your reply. Another beautiful deeply interesting reply. The scientist in me wants a double blind placebo controlled spiritual journey, you share the artists journey. I do have an artistic side and I feel the message you've shared.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1200 Posts

Posted - Dec 27 2019 :  12:29:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

... Maybe it is just me but AYP practices feel equally indulgent to me, that is, they have a highly sexualized feel. I am channeling sexual energies up and down with SBP. Kechari and siddhasana are very arousing. Striving to be preorgasmic places my attention in a very sexual place.


Yes, AYP is a path of bliss. I see here your attention is already very much on the sexual aspect of the process.


quote:
For me, self hypnosis is a way to channel some of this sexual energy in a different way.


A different way. Question being - is it a productive way?

[quote ] Over the last few months my experience has been a gradual, and sometimes precipitous, building of sexual energy. The AYP teachings, as best I understand them, are to build this preorgasmic energy as fuel for a spiritual transformation (with DM as the grounding technique to generate inner silence.


DM is the very core practice in AYP. It is not the “grounding practice” . It is all about cultivating Inner Silence (The Witness), without which we would simply be indulging in ecstatic bliss and looking for more and more ways to achieve the greatest heights of pleasure.

quote:
... On a completely separate note, as a person interested in neuroscience, these explorations are deeply fascinating for me and fall outside of the realm of the scientific method. On those grounds alone, the journey has been very worthwhile even if I am "fooling yourself" [/quote]
This I can totally understand. I love exploring the new to better understand.


Dear Interpaul - we each come to this path from different backgrounds and we all walk it differently... I respect your way. As long as we keep practicing , the journey will keep enfolding.


Sey
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interpaul

USA
70 Posts

Posted - Dec 27 2019 :  10:56:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sey, Of all the responses I get on the AYP forums yours often hit home the hardest. You challenge me in a way different than others. To some degree we are all lost children seeking to return home. AYP calls to me as a practice that points a way home. It is true, as you point out that my " attention is already very much on the sexual aspect of the process." I came to AYP to heal a wound of porn addiction/marital failure. I was directed to AYP by a guy on a no porn forum who told me AYP gave him new tools to cope with his struggles. So, yes, that is the unfortunate lens I look thru. I have reported back to this group my experience of how sexually charged much of this stuff is mostly because I still hold onto some fear this practice may not be healthy for me. The focus you all have had in reminding me the critical path is Inner Silence (The Witness) is very helpful to me as it points to where my healthy mind needs to focus its energy. I struggle with this as I only get glimpses at The Witness whereas I have daily doses of arousal from the practices. I continue, thru self inquiry, to scale back the stimulating practices and am more at a bare bones SBP/DM practice now and hoping that will help. Again, thanks for engaging me in dialogue on this.
:
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1200 Posts

Posted - Dec 28 2019 :  02:36:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply



Sey
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