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 Kundalini Issues Not Related to the AYP System
 kudalini and samskaras
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Shamia

USA
3 Posts

Posted - Oct 20 2019 :  11:38:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Does kundalini awakening affects our sanskaras?
i do vipassana, which is about cleansing you of old samskaras or patterns rooted in subconscious mind. A deep cleansing till complete purification, which is liberation. my question is, does kundalini awakening also cleans the subconscious mind from the patterns or samskaras the way vipassana does, or is it only about getting supper natural power?

thank you

Edited by - Shamia on Oct 21 2019 10:38:15 PM

Charliedog

1582 Posts

Posted - Oct 23 2019 :  08:32:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Shamia, welcome to AYP

Kundalini means coiled or dormant. Kundalini awakening means uncoiling the pranic currents. We open up to a broader perspective of life itself. Opening up means also the ability to see and recognize old patterns or samskaras. It is a journey, a process with many steps. Spiritual practices, like vipassana, yoga etc. and life itself will eventually lead to kundalini awakening, purification and liberation. Different traditions will use different words for the same beautiful journey of life.

Reading the lessons on this website might give you insights in this journey.


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Shamia

USA
3 Posts

Posted - Oct 23 2019 :  9:43:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your response. You went upto knowing samskaras. My question was resolving samskaras, unweaving the karma. It would be great If you could explain that, or reffer me to some source, or do both. I hear in the history of Hindu mythology about great rishis who had extra ordinary power but at a certain stimulus they would express their samskaras of anger , lust, arrogance etc. That caused me assume that one can practice the path of Shakti and achieve reach its peaks and still remain impure with past samskaras within them..I would appreciate any explanation...
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Charliedog

1582 Posts

Posted - Oct 24 2019 :  04:34:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
I hear in the history of Hindu mythology about great rishis who had extra ordinary power but at a certain stimulus they would express their samskaras of anger , lust, arrogance etc.

I hear those stories too. Having extra ordinary powers could be a pitfall on the path. Cultivating 'abiding inner silence' 'the Witness' is the most important. Reading through the lessons, as said above will maybe explain you more. Do however not forget that it is our daily practice that will lead us to understanding.

With deep meditation, we are cultivating the natural presence of inner silence within ourselves, an abiding stillness that penetrates all of our thoughts, feelings and actions. This innate stillness, also referred to as pure bliss consciousness, is beyond the ups and downs of life. Life goes on as it did before, but stillness resides in us as a silent witness that we recognize as our transcendent Self. As we come to know our Self beyond the many influences in our life, it has a profound effect on the way we view events. We see life occurring as change on the ocean of our stillness. Even catastrophic events will be unable to touch us in our deepest realm of Self-awareness.

This is the transcendence of karma. It is not the elimination of karma. Karma will go on, but our relationship with it will change, and its role in our life will change also. "Yogani"

Some source,
Lesson 343 What is Karma
Lesson 344 Transcending Karma


Edited by - Charliedog on Oct 24 2019 06:37:21 AM
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Shamia

USA
3 Posts

Posted - Oct 24 2019 :  5:03:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
extra ordinary power could be a "sign of progress" in the path rather than a "pitfall". i would rather say "attachment" to the power could be pitfall.
regarding our discussion i think it is expanding and i hope we can bring it back again to my main question.
So, as i gather, you seem to mean that the path of kundalini yoga involves silent observation and stillness. does that mean you only observe silently and don't try to manipulate your breath and movement of the vital energy and try to direct them in certain pathways based on knowledge you get either from outside but mostly by inspiration from inside, by the shakti itself, who guides you to actively take part in the process?
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Oct 24 2019 :  5:32:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Shamia

I hear in the history of Hindu mythology about great rishis who had extra ordinary power but at a certain stimulus they would express their samskaras of anger , lust, arrogance etc. That caused me assume that one can practice the path of Shakti and achieve reach its peaks and still remain impure with past samskaras within them.



Based on ayp lessons "samyama is the source of siddhis."(https://www.aypsite.org/76.html) and "Morally, it is a self-regulating practice" (https://www.aypsite.org/149.html) meaning you cannot use it to fulfill your personal desires.

But as Shamia mentioned there are many stories of so called misusing siddhis. In one of his talks sadhguru (Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev - Founder of Isha Foundation) mentioned that he is extra careful with those who are given samyama practice so they don't do something wrong with it.

Considering these it seems samyama is not "Morally self-regulating ". And it is possible to achieve these powers while your ego is still there.
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Charliedog

1582 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2019 :  01:38:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Shamia,

quote:
regarding our discussion i think it is expanding and i hope we can bring it back again to my main question.

What I do is trying to guide you to the lessons. Why? Because your questions are not easy to answer in a few sentences. The questions ask for expansion to see the whole picture.
quote:
So, as i gather, you seem to mean that the path of kundalini yoga involves silent observation and stillness. does that mean you only observe silently and don't try to manipulate your breath and movement of the vital energy and try to direct them in certain pathways based on knowledge you get either from outside but mostly by inspiration from inside, by the shakti itself, who guides you to actively take part in the process?


What is AYP (Advanced Yoga Practices)?

The AYP techniques act directly through heart, mind, body, breath and sexuality. Practices taught include Deep Meditation using an efficient universal mantra, advanced Spinal Breathing Pranayama methods, Samyama, Self-Inquiry, and an integration of Hatha, Kundalini and Tantra techniques, all for steadily cultivating inner peace and enlightenment through an easy daily practice. Everyone is encouraged to go at their own speed in taking on new practices. Much attention is devoted in AYP to developing skill in "self-pacing," with the aim of assisting every practitioner to become self-sufficient with these powerful tools that cultivate human spiritual transformation.

If you find the introductory resources on this website helpful on your path, consider taking action to go much deeper, greatly benefiting yourself and many others. AYP is sustained and continues to move forward as a dynamic global community of practitioners, teachers and volunteers through book sales, AYP Plus subscriptions, Retreats and Teacher Training Courses, and private donations. However you choose to get involved, your participation and support will be much appreciated, accelerating your own spiritual progress while helping to share the AYP teachings and programs with many around the world.

The author, Yogani, is an American spiritual scientist with 50 years experience in blending powerful yoga methods with the modern lifestyle. The focus here is on revealing practices that work, not on promoting a sectarian view. All are invited to join in, regardless of background or level of skill in spiritual practice. This is a flexible, scientific approach rather than a rigid, arbitrary one. The author has no desire for guru status - only to have the joy of making a contribution to helping the formerly secret disciplines of effective spiritual practice become open and useful for everyone. He wishes to remain anonymous, preserving a quiet life in practices. AYP is not about the author. It is about all who long for knowledge.

It is hoped you will find the AYP teachings and programs to be useful resources as you travel along your chosen spiritual path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!

The guru is in you.

The lessons start here

Enjoy
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chas

USA
204 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2019 :  03:28:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Samskaras can be thought of as unresolved problems that distort perception. Consider a traumatic event from the past. Perhaps someone treated us poorly and it was not possible to resolve it at the time.

We have the memory and we have an emotional connection to the event. This is referred to as a kind of coloring of the memory in yoga. For example, when I was a child, a dear member of my family was having a bad day and did something terrible to me. I could not make sense of it then. "What did I do to you?," I wondered. It turned into resentment, anger, and depression. I carried this unresolved event and others like it for a long time. My perception was oriented through it, like a particular lens through which I viewed it and associated experiences. Since mind relies significantly on associations, this becomes a larger influence in life than is healthy, true, or necessary. Associations activate samskaras.

How are these things reconciled? In my experience, it is in seeing them from a higher point of view. In yoga, it is said that samyama is the process by which the discoloration of samskaras takes place. A different way of saying the same thing. Samadhi is the place within us that is both unaffected by events and is the power that cleanses the past and recurring problems.

Samyama can be done on anything that can be perceived, including memories, traumas, obstructions, samskaras, etc. When our absorption in samadhi occurs, the object of perception is also absorbed and purified by pure consciousness. The memory remains, but the negative coloring is removed. Ex.- in integrating the experience in samyama, I can see that the problem with my loved one was not personal- he was having a bad day, and there were other factors involved (including unresolved problems) - things that I hadn't considered when I was 5 years old. Now the memories activate compassion/love/understanding in contrast to the previous subjective conditions.

With all the different factors, it can seem complex in details and simplified into the nature of consciousness... In essence the view becomes expanded. There is a larger picture that becomes known as the process is integrated.

Kundalini supercharges the process. For one, she opens our energy body and enhances meditation. Kundalini churns the ocean of consciousness and brings up a lot of things in us that need reconciliation. Otherwise, it can take a very long time to even become aware of old problems still affecting us and our life experience.




Edited by - chas on Oct 25 2019 04:46:32 AM
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Dogboy

USA
1646 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2019 :  12:30:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice explanation, Chas
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chas

USA
204 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2019 :  2:16:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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jusmail

India
482 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2019 :  03:55:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by angeleeyes
Based on ayp lessons "samyama is the source of siddhis."(https://www.aypsite.org/76.html) and "Morally, it is a self-regulating practice" (https://www.aypsite.org/149.html) meaning you cannot use it to fulfill your personal desires.

But as Shamia mentioned there are many stories of so called misusing siddhis. In one of his talks sadhguru (Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev - Founder of Isha Foundation) mentioned that he is extra careful with those who are given samyama practice so they don't do something wrong with it.

Considering these it seems samyama is not "Morally self-regulating ". And it is possible to achieve these powers while your ego is still there.



The samyama in Isha foundation is a different practice than the samyama we do here.
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2019 :  5:07:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by jusmail

The samyama in Isha foundation is a different practice than the samyama we do here.



The principles of samyama are unique. Maybe Isha samyama is more intense.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3598 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2019 :  5:26:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by angeleeyes

quote:
Originally posted by Shamia

I hear in the history of Hindu mythology about great rishis who had extra ordinary power but at a certain stimulus they would express their samskaras of anger , lust, arrogance etc. That caused me assume that one can practice the path of Shakti and achieve reach its peaks and still remain impure with past samskaras within them.



Based on ayp lessons "samyama is the source of siddhis."(https://www.aypsite.org/76.html) and "Morally, it is a self-regulating practice" (https://www.aypsite.org/149.html) meaning you cannot use it to fulfill your personal desires.

But as Shamia mentioned there are many stories of so called misusing siddhis. In one of his talks sadhguru (Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev - Founder of Isha Foundation) mentioned that he is extra careful with those who are given samyama practice so they don't do something wrong with it.

Considering these it seems samyama is not "Morally self-regulating ". And it is possible to achieve these powers while your ego is still there.



Hi Angeleyes,

Siddhis, or spiritual powers, can and do develop at some point, for everyone who practices yoga. They can develop as a result of any effective yoga practice, not only samyama. They are the result of the inner senses awakening due to the purification of the subtle neurobiology and also a result of heightened perception resulting from transcendence (samadhi).

The reason that the AYP samyama technique is said to be morally self-regulating is because it is only effective when we are able to touch upon (release things into) inner silence. If there is an egoic personal motivation behind the practice, then that negative vibration would disturb the inner silence making the practice ineffective. When the mind is at peace, then the practice becomes effective.

This is from the Samyama book, page 24:

"Fortunately, samyama is a morally self-regulating practice, which means inner silence (samadhi) is the prerequisite for success in samyama. Inner silence is beyond ego consciousness. If there is inner silence, there will also be rising moral responsibility and conduct (yama and niyama), due to the natural connectedness of all the limbs of yoga. Along with this comes dispassion for the external performances of siddhis. Interestingly, the more advanced we become in our samyama practice, the less attachment we will have to the results. The flip side of this is that the more interested we are in siddhis, the less effective our samyama will be, because we will have less inner silence. This is self-regulation coming from within." [Yogani]

This does not mean that yogis cannot abuse their spiritual powers and there are certainly many examples of yogis doing this. So it is good to be cautious when siddhis begin to manifest. The general advice is not to use them and to not become distracted by them.

Christi
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2019 :  10:26:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

The reason that the AYP samyama technique is said to be morally self-regulating is because it is only effective when we are able to touch upon (release things into) inner silence. If there is an egoic personal motivation behind the practice, then that negative vibration would disturb the inner silence making the practice ineffective. When the mind is at peace, then the practice becomes effective.


This does not mean that yogis cannot abuse their spiritual powers and there are certainly many examples of yogis doing this.



Hi Christi, hope you are well,

Thank you for your response.

I don't see why inner silence should be disturbed by a personal motivation? In my understanding inner silence is more like space. It cannot be disturbed by anything. It is pure possibility and anything can be manifested from it. The moral/immoral and using or abusing issue is a human thing, our interpretation.
To me it feels more like a mental trick so that the practitioner cannot use it for his personal desires whatsoever.

Edited by - angeleeyes on Oct 27 2019 04:21:13 AM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3598 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2019 :  05:55:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Angeleeyes,

Although it is true to say that inner silence cannot be disturbed by anything, our experience of it can be, and usually is.

When different people meditate, some will experience inner silence (samadhi) and others won't. The difference is caused by the nature of the fluctuations of the mind (vrittis). When the fluctuations of the mind are very calm and of a sattvic (pure) nature, then we will naturally experience inner silence. But if the fluctuations of the mind are strong and of a tamasic (dull), or rajasic (egoic/ overactive) nature, then there will be too much disturbance for inner silence to be experienced.

So the very presence of negative egoic desires (powerful rajasic fluctuations), will prevent inner silence from being experienced. And without the experience of inner silence, samyama becomes ineffective.

On top of this, inner silence is not simply a neutral "space" from which anything can manifest. Inner silence has qualities to it and a transformational power. It has the qualities of peace, joy, freedom and love. So, the more time we spend abiding in samadhi, the more we realize these qualities to be the very nature of our own being. The transformational power of inner silence is that if negative emotions such as anger or fear are released into inner silence, they dissolve. If positive qualities such as joy and the aspiration for liberation are released into inner silence, they become amplified. So, inner silence (samadhi) has the power to transform and is in fact the most powerful transformational force in yoga.


Christi



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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2019 :  08:21:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi christi,

Then why do you think someone like sadhguru should be extra careful with samyama practitioners not doing something wrong? ( I should ask him though:)).

Consider someone who wants to heal himself physically and be perfect in the physical level like many people around him is there something wrong with it? Because, it seems solving your own problems(problems which cannot be solved normally) with yogic or other spiritual powers is a taboo. At most if you are capable you can do it for others but not for yourself. You have to release it to silence whether it solves your problem or not doesn't matter you should be happy anyways.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3598 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2019 :  09:53:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Angeleeyes,

I have no idea why Sadhguru would say that. Higher up in this thread, Jusmail wrote that the practice that Sadhguru teaches as samyama is not the same as the AYP samyama. So, that could be the reason. We could be talking about "apples and oranges".

The advice that is generally given about not using siddhis when they begin to arise, is not because we cannot or should not help others. It is because as long as there is the contracted energy of ignorance still present, it can be easy for the use of powers to become distorted, feeding and exaggerating the ego. This often leads to suffering for both the person using the powers and the person on the receiving end because of co-dependent relationships that can arise. If this happens, both can actually regress on the path, rather than making progress.

Ultimately, yoga is not about solving our personal problems, or anyone else's personal problems. It is about the falling away of our limited perceptions in this world to the degree that we are able to see everything simply as it is. This includes the direct perception that we never had any personal problems. This is liberation.

Eventually all of life becomes a continuous flow of miracles, but to get there, we have to keep our eye on the ball. The miracles are not the ball. They are a by-product of our spiritual practices and a potential massive distraction. The ball is enlightenment, and to get there, we have to be willing to let go of everything that can get in the way.


Christi
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2019 :  12:16:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi,

So which one should we accept? on one hand you say:

quote:
Inner silence is beyond ego consciousness. If there is inner silence, there will also be rising moral responsibility and conduct (yama and niyama), due to the natural connectedness of all the limbs of yoga.


quote:
So the very presence of negative egoic desires (powerful rajasic fluctuations), will prevent inner silence from being experienced. And without the experience of inner silence, samyama becomes ineffective.



And on the other hand:

quote:
The advice that is generally given about not using siddhis when they begin to arise, is not because we cannot or should not help others.


I don't understand who decides what to happen or manifest. If inner silence is responsible then there is no abuse and problem if the yogi is able to manifest and responsible then...

And about Isha and Ayp samyama:

quote:
I have no idea why Sadhguru would say that. Higher up in this thread, Jusmail wrote that the practice that Sadhguru teaches as samyama is not the same as the AYP samyama. So, that could be the reason. We could be talking about "apples and oranges".


Isn't that inner silence is the source of all manifestation it means to manifest we have to act from inner silence so how can technique change the result and besides the origin of samyama practice is Patanjali's yoga sutras so they are most probably similar.

Jusmail, what do you know about Isha samyama could you please tell us?

Edited by - angeleeyes on Oct 27 2019 12:49:08 PM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3598 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2019 :  2:21:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Angeleeyes,

The statements are not contradictory. The first two statements are about the practice of samyama and how it works. The third statement is about the development and use of siddhis, which can arise from any effective yoga practice, including asana, pranayama, mudras, bandhas and meditation, as well as samyama.

The question of who decides what to manifest is not a simple one to answer. It is the same as the question of who decides to initiate any action? There is a colouring that happens in the mind due to misguided identification with mental objects. This means that when an action happens, if we are not able to see clearly, we think we are the actor of the action. When we identify as the actor of the action, and the action fails, we think that we have failed. If the action succeeds, we think we have succeeded. When speech happens, we think we are the speaker, when a thought arises, we think we are the thinker, when we see something, we think we are the seer, and so on. When a thought is a pleasant one, we think we are happy and when it is unpleasant, we think we are unhappy. And so, every action produces a re-action and we are caught up in the waves of success and failure, good and bad, right and wrong, happiness and sorrow and so on. In other words, we are caught up in the cycle of suffering.

All of this is true also in the case of siddhis. When siddhis happen and we have the habit of identifying with the objects of the mind, then we think that we are the instrument of the siddhi. So, we think that we are the one who can heal, or we are the one who can see into the future, and so on. But this is still mis-identification caused by ignorance and is just as likely to lead to suffering, as any other form of mis-identification. So even though it is true that everything arises from stillness, when ignorance is still present, suffering can follow due to mis-identification with the objects of perception, the body and mind.

This is from Yogani's Samyama book (page 79):

"Most of the scriptures of the world contain exhibitions of super-normal powers, usually with the proviso that such things come from God. Even so, as eager aspirants, we often will seek the acts themselves before attempting to join with the primal cause – the divine within us." [Yogani]

Moving beyond this false identification with the objects of the mind, is one of the goals of yoga and is moksha, or liberation. It is necessary, in order to understand who is doing all of this. As long as we are still identified with the objects on the screen of awareness, we cannot see the real picture, which is beyond all of that. This process is especially dealt with through Self-inquiry practice.

This is from page 100 of Yogani's Self-inquiry book.

"But there is something more. We have called it "getting ripe" and falling off the tree of duality into the non-dual condition, which is unity. This is the province of self-inquiry, which has been expanded upon in this volume. While we can find great joy and excitement at every step along the path, ultimate freedom is found in realizing the non-dual condition of unity. It is here that we know ourselves to be fully in but not of this world, and no longer susceptible to the suffering associated with the identification of awareness with the body, mind, emotions, and sensory perceptions. This is not primarily a state of mind or an intellectual understanding. We simply find that we are not any of these things, and that we are all of them. It is a mystery." [Yogani]

You may find these lessons useful:

Lesson 357 - Who is the Perceiver?

357.1 - "Why Am I?"

Lesson 327 - The Evolutionary Stages of Mind

Lesson 350 - Practices for Moving Beyond the Witness Stage

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jusmail

India
482 Posts

Posted - Oct 28 2019 :  12:42:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
From what I have read, Isha samyama involves meditation, self inquiry and a form of yantra. It is an 8-day intensive program.
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Blanche

USA
578 Posts

Posted - Oct 30 2019 :  06:52:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Angeleeyes,

The fact that we do not see a problem using the siddhis does not mean that it is a good idea to do it. It is just like a child who does not see a problem walking along a highway – it might seem ok, but it is not a good idea.

As Christi writes, using the siddhis could reinforce grandiose delusions about who we are if there is still any identification with this body-mind. The siddhis act as a shortcut in the fabric of karma that governs this world. Avoiding an effect creates a backlog – and someone will have to make up for it. If you are not clear about what is happening, it is better to let things go their way. It is like using a siddhi to stop rain when driving in a storm, just to find yourself in a dangerous driving situation soon afterwards.

As we continue to purify, our perceptions become clearer. What seemed like problems at a time start to have a different meaning. We start to appreciate the wisdom of “doing our dharma” as the best path for our actions. In many ways, this world is a play in which we are actors, and doing our best in the character is the best for the actors (us) and the play (the world).

As the Zen master Ryokan wrote,

When your heart is pure,
All the things in your world are pure.
Then the moon and the flowers will take you along the Way.

Edited by - Blanche on Oct 30 2019 09:06:26 AM
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Oct 30 2019 :  11:19:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Blanche,

quote:
In many ways, this world is a play


Now this is really interesting. This world is just a play, nothing is real, nothing is serious, but if you do certain things you will be in a grave danger and what is that? you will reinforce your ego. The fact is we all do reinforce our ego in many ways everyday.

As we discuss this siddhis issue more it is become more clear to me that it is very much possible to achieve siddhis and use them as you wish. I have heard about yogis who are very powerful in many ways. They can create whatever they want. Maybe they are not "ENLIGHTENED" as you say, but they are gods themselves in many ways.

Edited by - angeleeyes on Oct 30 2019 11:28:20 AM
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Oct 30 2019 :  12:00:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Angeleeyes, you are taking Blanche's words and giving them a meaning she did not intend - the basic problem with language of course, and the reason why Yogani always advocates practice.

A play can be a very serious thing. What we do in this play has consequences. Which is just as well, because seeing the consequences of our actions helps us learn.

You have heard this from me before, so I will only briefly say it again: do your yoga practices and the rest will come, whether it's siddhis, the transcendence of siddhis or "just" the understanding that what has to happen will happen.

Best wishes to you

quote:
Originally posted by Blanche
As the Zen master Ryokan wrote,

When your heart is pure,
All the things in your world are pure.
Then the moon and the flowers will take you along the Way.

Thank you, Blanche
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Arunachala Bhakta

Finland
27 Posts

Posted - Oct 31 2019 :  04:13:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful topic, once again. Thank you everyone. Just came to my mind what
Ramana wrote to her mother, who was begging him to come back home from Arunachala:

Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to prevent it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.

Edited by - Arunachala Bhakta on Oct 31 2019 05:05:01 AM
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Blanche

USA
578 Posts

Posted - Oct 31 2019 :  06:45:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
BlueRaincoat
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Blanche

USA
578 Posts

Posted - Oct 31 2019 :  06:49:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by angeleeyes
Now this is really interesting. This world is just a play, nothing is real, nothing is serious, but if you do certain things you will be in a grave danger and what is that? you will reinforce your ego. The fact is we all do reinforce our ego in many ways everyday.

As we discuss this siddhis issue more it is become more clear to me that it is very much possible to achieve siddhis and use them as you wish. I have heard about yogis who are very powerful in many ways. They can create whatever they want. Maybe they are not "ENLIGHTENED" as you say, but they are gods themselves in many ways.


Hi Angeleeyes,

The world is real, as real as it gets – it is just not what it seems to be. All actions have consequences – the more powerful the action, the more powerful the consequences.

Not everything we do reinforces our wrong view of the ego – e.g. meditation, selfless service do not reinforce our misperception of the ego. Ego as a structure that allows us to respond to our environment is a positive thing. We do need to adapt and respond to our environment. The problem is not the ego, but our misunderstanding when it comes to it. Living in a society we learn to see ourselves and the world in a certain way that distorts the truth. This subtle but fundamental misunderstanding is at the root of our suffering. What is the point of acquiring siddhis if we continue to suffer? You are probably familiar with the story of Milarepa, the most famous Tibetan poet. In his first part of his life, he trained to get siddhis and he performed a series of miracles. Then he went through a grueling painful period to move beyond the siddhis on a spiritual path.

It is said that gods live for eons a life of bliss. Everything is so wonderful in their realms that they have little reason to do anything but enjoy it. And then even the gods die, and they are born in the human realm for another chance to continue their spiritual journey.

You could surely understand that if you put your energy into acquiring siddhis it will be at the cost of your spiritual live. Find out who you are, and then worry about siddhis. Anyway, siddhis are in many ways like ancient technology – listening and viewing at a distance, levitation, being present in multiple locations, etc. In our days, we have modern technologies that accomplish the same things – we have phones, TV, planes, teleconference, etc. There is no need to use our energy and time to get these things. Let’s put our attention on our spiritual practice – we will change ourselves and the world in the process. Then we will not need to run after godly realms or magic powers - we will live in a heaven right here.


Edited by - Blanche on Oct 31 2019 06:49:58 AM
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