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 Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
 The pull towards enlightenment, is it antisocial?
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interpaul

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2019 :  7:14:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
I've read a number of studies that repeatedly confirm the importance of social connection in achieving happiness. This AYP path towards spiritual enlightenment, although it doesn't focus on avoiding being social, it does focus on an inner journey. I have found an increasing bliss and ecstasy in the practices. I remain very engaged in my day to day life at work and with my family yet I feel a deeper desire to turn inward even more. I have heard people warn of turning to spirituality as a way to avoid problems in the real world. I do wonder though if the true path to enlightenment requires renunciation of some of the worldly strivings. As an example I have chosen to do some of my meditative practices at lunch time rather than join others for lunch. Having this quiet time I find invigorating but worry I may become more antisocial as I enjoy this quiet time by myself.

Edited by - interpaul on Sep 23 2019 7:15:10 PM

SeySorciere

Seychelles
1178 Posts

Posted - Sep 24 2019 :  01:25:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear interpaul,

In truth, I too feel I have become "anti-social", in the sense that I can no longer stand crowds and loud music. I no longer find pleasure in what most people call "social behavior". I do still enjoy time spent with individuals, friends and family, engaged in real conversations. I work, so I daily interact with others but tend to avoid company events as much as I can.
When I am with others, that I am comfortable with, my attention is more turned inwards than outwards. I am not sure how they experience me. My family did complain at the beginning of my journey that I am withdrawn. They don't anymore but that is perhaps they have gotten used to and accepted me this way. It has made me a better listener though. What I find is than people refer other people to me when they no longer know what to do.

I hope I am useful in some small way.


Sey



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Charliedog

1582 Posts

Posted - Sep 24 2019 :  04:22:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Interpaul,

Your question touches me, because I struggled with this for as long as I can remember. I need time to be alone, I know that now and also long ago. As a child I felt often lonely, because of the doubt in myself. Not happy in social gatherings, and also not happy when I was alone, because I was imprinted by others that this was antisocial behavior. This doubt followed me a big part of this life. It was the root of suffering.

Practice learned me step by step that if we leave the doubts and the worries for what they are, life is a flow, a streaming river. One moment a time, every moment fresh, new.

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jusmail

India
482 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2019 :  03:08:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderation is the keyword.
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interpaul

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2019 :  10:51:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys. I suspect individuals drawn to this form of spirituality may, as a group, have an introverted tendency making generalizations difficult. Moderation does seem to be the key to much of life, yet some of the important changes in life seem to require something more. As an example most experts belief an alcoholic can only fully recover by completely giving up alcohol. I wonder if we need to completely give up something to fully realize our true potential. In giving up that something we will obviously loose something. The attachment to people for reassurance and a sense of being ok is a very important part of our social network. In my very act of sending these questions I am seeking reassurance for something I ultimately need to discover for myself which brings me back to the challenge. To truly find that deep connection with the I AM inside me requires turning inward. It is at least reassuring Yogani repeatedly focuses on limiting the time in spinal breathing and meditation to twice daily and for 30 minutes. Being new at this I don't yet have perspective on how far I need to go into these practices before the ecstatic energy will spill over into an outward expression of love.
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kumar ul islam

United Kingdom
693 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2019 :  1:28:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
to gain a life you must lose a life i think this was the christ who refers to this ,losing ignorance of the non real or maya the ever changing and then realising that this is the framework of our existence and even death only really the shell or form not the atman or the soul ,in the play of krishna we realise yoga maya exists for the play to be played out but only krisna sees the whole the potential and the manifestation simple really ,we have heaven but we want to decorate it .
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kumar ul islam

United Kingdom
693 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2019 :  4:11:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
being anti social is rather a large term for a specific within a particular group or setting ,i.e. my liking for hip hop ended years ago but i am older now and my tastes or appetites have changed not hanging about with the hip hop crowd is not anti social only a change in needs or desires ,i now have a taste for indian classical music but this need desire satiates a certain aspect of my growth i listen alone also with groups that like the same taste more social less anti social ,there is no avoidance of of anything in this life we are all drawn to action even if its lifting a fork to mouth to feed ourselves, avoiding thoughts are also impossible they will come but also pass ,renouncing the fruit of action is key and also finding what is action in inaction and inaction in action these are deep questions and when you can apply these can renunciation become a practice within life itself ,lunch with everybody this is the greatest table to sit at as every bodies sandwich becomes yours without even having to put it in your mouth .
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sunyata

USA
1404 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2019 :  5:27:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi interpaul,

I can relate to Sey's, Charliedog and your experience.

Like all things in life, we go through cycles in our spiritual life.Follow the wisdom of your heart. Change is the only constant in this path as well. A balanced life and following the middle path helps. Continue with your twice daily practices and self pace when needed.

May be at some point we let go of what Enlightenment and Liberation looks like or should look like and we are okay with the discomfort and also okay with our resistance to discomfort.

AYP is such a supportive and loving community. I've made beautiful friendships here. And, having spiritual friends helps.

My two cents for what it's worth.

Much Love

Edited by - sunyata on Sep 25 2019 5:31:14 PM
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interpaul

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2019 :  12:20:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sunyata, Thank you. I do appreciate the support of this community and your bringing attention to the cycles of change.
Kumar ul isalm, Thank you for your additional comments. You speak to some deep truths.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1178 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2019 :  02:34:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

... I wonder if we need to completely give up something to fully realize our true potential. In giving up that something we will obviously loose something...




Yes, we certainly have to give up something /surrender something and that is our identification with objects of perception

quote:
Because we are identified with our perceptions of our body/minds and this world. It is a habit, a deeply biologically and neurologically ingrained habit. Not only that. Because we habitually imprint our sense of self on our body/mind, we see our physical surroundings as separate from ourselves. So the world becomes a stranger to itself. Through our process of identified perception the one has become many.





Sey
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1178 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2019 :  03:16:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I would also like to say something on "renouncing the fruit of action"... I appear to be doing this so habitually now, that I have ended up feeling quite useless (I think! It could be that I am actually useless ). And it is creating self-doubt. Of what use are all these practices if I do nothing? I contribute nothing to the benefit of others. I see misery and pain around me and I want to help... a few actually come to me for help and I usually add them to my Samyama practice and sometimes their situations may actually get better... but I have no feedback /no proof that I actually helped. It is one aspect of the transition that I struggle with somewhat. Operating as ego-self we are used to feeling good and worthy when we manage to be of help. All that I am left with is - did I manage to help?

Does anyone else feel this way?


Sey




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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2019 :  10:01:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
All that I am left with is - did I manage to help?

We can only put our grain of sand on the side of the balance that we think matters. It is not up to us which way the balance goes.
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
a few actually come to me for help and I usually add them to my Samyama practice and sometimes their situations may actually get better
Don't forget that others have their own journeys. What is good for them may well be hidden from us. Sometimes 'easy' may not be the same as 'best'.

Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Sep 27 2019 3:36:37 PM
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sunyata

USA
1404 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2019 :  10:32:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere

I would also like to say something on "renouncing the fruit of action"... I appear to be doing this so habitually now, that I have ended up feeling quite useless (I think! It could be that I am actually useless ). And it is creating self-doubt. Of what use are all these practices if I do nothing? I contribute nothing to the benefit of others. I see misery and pain around me and I want to help... a few actually come to me for help and I usually add them to my Samyama practice and sometimes their situations may actually get better... but I have no feedback /no proof that I actually helped. It is one aspect of the transition that I struggle with somewhat. Operating as ego-self we are used to feeling good and worthy when we manage to be of help. All that I am left with is - did I manage to help?

Does anyone else feel this way?


Sey




Hi Sey,

Not in this particular case. But, I have plenty of others.

Have you inquired into the part that requires confirmation that your help actually worked? your self doubt? feeling useless?

In my personal practice, I've had to sit with some discomforts (sometimes for years). It has been really about making space for the energy to be released:it chips away slowly. Hope this makes sense.


Much Love,


Edited by - sunyata on Sep 26 2019 10:34:21 AM
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interpaul

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2019 :  12:58:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
My sense of Yogani's teachings is the ecstatic bliss serves as a deep well of energy that allows for expressing love in the world. I'm not sure the goal is to sit on the sidelines in a blissful state but rather to take the blissful state as a home base from which to have the strength to engage in the outer world.
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sunyata

USA
1404 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2019 :  1:28:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

My sense of Yogani's teachings is the ecstatic bliss serves as a deep well of energy that allows for expressing love in the world. I'm not sure the goal is to sit on the sidelines in a blissful state but rather to take the blissful state as a home base from which to have the strength to engage in the outer world.



Hi interpaul,

Yes, this is correct.

If this was in reference to my sit with discomfort response to Sey. I didn't mean it literally.

Edited by - sunyata on Sep 26 2019 1:32:23 PM
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kumar ul islam

United Kingdom
693 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2019 :  3:53:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
sometimes its about not doing anything action in inaction ,not saying ,not putting ,not helping ,response is what we desire most in an action ,we require a consequence just to validate our action not doing can be just as effective at times ,knowing something is not correct and trying to correct it is natural response whether the person ,situation will accept this is another matter, wisdom requires us to decide what where and when and to whom a path filled with mistakes and self doubt but worth treading

the paths that we tread
are the threads that we weave
in the dream that we dream
of the truth we tell ourselves
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1178 Posts

Posted - Sep 27 2019 :  01:08:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for your wisdom. Indeed, we can only put our grain of sand on the side of the balance that we think matters. And yes, some inquiry is probably in order.

Kumar - that is particularly brilliant. Thank you.
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interpaul

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Sep 27 2019 :  11:48:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the additional thoughts, and poetry!
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2019 :  03:20:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

My sense of Yogani's teachings is the ecstatic bliss serves as a deep well of energy that allows for expressing love in the world. I'm not sure the goal is to sit on the sidelines in a blissful state but rather to take the blissful state as a home base from which to have the strength to engage in the outer world.

Yes, that's the AYP stance.

After a while, with practice and progress, we come to a position where we give no preference either to being alone or in company. In truth, we are never alone. And having people around does not diminish the bliss in any way.

It's true that we don't need socialising for entertainment, but sharing the fruits of our practice with others is a pleasure, regardless of whether they are yogis or not. And we naturally start seeking ways in which we can be helpful to the world.

Just do what you feel like doing at this stage on your path. If you feel you need time away from others to grow, there is no harm in allowing yourself some time. As others have said before on this thread, things will evolve. The way out is through
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interpaul

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2019 :  1:14:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
BlueRaincoat, I appreciate your very positive and hopeful message. Yogani's teachings have inspired me as his messages are so clearly outlined and the practices are bearing fruit. I find this forum helpful for exploring concerns but am always a little cautious in knowing how to take suggestions as we really don't know who is on the other end of the message and how much insight they have. This enlightenment path is a funny thing. I have met many people in my life who spend a lot of time in meditation/retreats etc who seem much less enlightened than other folks. Many people who gravitate to spirituality often suffer from many problems in their lives. I am slowly learning discernment when it comes to virtual or in person interactions as we can't truly know the truth the other speaks. I am realizing it takes a great deal of time to trust the truth in our own heart. Fortunately these practices are opening me up to these truths. Thank you for your engagement and kindness. Have a nice weekend
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2019 :  02:45:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul
I have met many people in my life who spend a lot of time in meditation/retreats etc who seem much less enlightened than other folks.
I made a similar observation, as I sometimes found enlightenment where I least expected it. I have since stopped forming expectations.

You have found AYP, so you must have developed an ability to recognize truth when you hear it.
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interpaul

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2019 :  12:09:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
BlueRaincoat, It is funny how trusting I've become in a practice written by a man I don't know and have never met. The ability to subjectively evaluate each practice and come to understand it's inherent value for me is unique. So much of life is spent doing and trying to believe what people tell you. This experiential journey is liberating and such a natural path. In looking at the path I found to these practices it makes me realize the old expression of you will find the teacher when you are ready is so true. The last place I thought I would find such truths was on a website such as this one.
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