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 samyama doubts
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 08 2019 :  09:59:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
any word or idea can be used as samyama?

example ...

I am thin
I'm self-confident

or

thinness
infinite self-confidence


...


Edited by - Ayamer on Mar 08 2019 10:17:14 AM

Dogboy

USA
1652 Posts

Posted - Mar 08 2019 :  12:22:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
My additions are Patience and Playfulness.

Patience calls me to recognize, within a moment, when it is about to 'go off the rails' and know it for what it is. Playfulness sees the joy within a moment and encourages it to multiply.

Edited by - Dogboy on Mar 08 2019 12:24:25 PM
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 08 2019 :  4:59:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy

My additions are Patience and Playfulness.

Patience calls me to recognize, within a moment, when it is about to 'go off the rails' and know it for what it is. Playfulness sees the joy within a moment and encourages it to multiply.




Hi! Thank you for responding.

but is it possible to use any word as addition?
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Charliedog

1582 Posts

Posted - Mar 09 2019 :  04:18:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Ayamer,

The nine given sutras are revealing their power in the long term after practicing day after day. For instance it is 'Strength' we need to find self-confidence and also we need 'Strength' to find healthy habits to loose weight and to stay healthy. We can add a personal sutra, but have to understand that Samyama is not 'making a wish'. These given words will provide you with an 'Abundance of Strength', to stay with the sutra 'Strength' .

From the Samyama lesson
quote:
As with all advanced yoga practices, the real benefits from samyama are to be found in long term daily practice of a particular routine of sutras. If we keep changing sutras around every day or week, and are irregular in our practice, the results will not accumulate. If we want to strike water, we will do best to keep digging in the same place.


Enjoy your daily practice!

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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 09 2019 :  07:07:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you Charliedog. (sorry my english because it is not my first language)


Real spiritual power is essentially what we are,
and it flows through us effortlessly as we attune
ourselves to our own inner nature. (page 7 )

It is the human nervous system that is the doorway to the infinite,
and to all that flows from that divine realm
within us. (page 11 e 12 )


In order to advance toward
enlightenment (move into our castle), it is necessary
to fully purify and open our nervous system to our
inner reality and capabilities (page 8)

*****inner nature and inner reality and capabilities , this refers to the power of our subconscious
?




With samyama, we go the other way, from the
inside out, instead of from the outside in. And we use
meaning. (page 15 )

****meaning ... if anything means anything
  so this means this
and this brings this meaning to our life, right?


Let’s begin with Love. It is a good place to start ( page 16 )
with samyama.

... in our daily activity, and then
we may be more loving and compassionate for no
obvious external reason. (page 18 )

***in this case the meaning of love begins to appear in the day to day, correct?


where we can do
samyama directly on an obstruction (a negative
influence) in order to remove it. (page 69 )

So, if we have some egotistical desire for
enlightenment, or for some powers to exercise in the
world, this is fine. Learn deep meditation. Learn
samyama, and go for it. (page 35 )

By applying the simple and
universal principles of samyama, our prayers can be
empowered in ways that fulfill their purpose (page 73)

*****when we pray for something, we have an interest in realizing some desire,
and if we apply the principles of samyama, our desire is stronger then, right?
in this sense we can create our own personal list of additions
according to our specific desire to manifest
these intentions in everyday life, am I right?





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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  07:30:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Ayamer



*****inner nature and inner reality and capabilities , this refers to the power of our subconscious
?

With samyama, we go the other way, from the
inside out, instead of from the outside in. And we use
meaning. (page 15 )

****meaning ... if anything means anything
  so this means this
and this brings this meaning to our life, right?


Let’s begin with Love. It is a good place to start ( page 16 )
with samyama.

... in our daily activity, and then
we may be more loving and compassionate for no
obvious external reason. (page 18 )

***in this case the meaning of love begins to appear in the day to day, correct?


where we can do
samyama directly on an obstruction (a negative
influence) in order to remove it. (page 69 )

So, if we have some egotistical desire for
enlightenment, or for some powers to exercise in the
world, this is fine. Learn deep meditation. Learn
samyama, and go for it. (page 35 )

By applying the simple and
universal principles of samyama, our prayers can be
empowered in ways that fulfill their purpose (page 73)

*****when we pray for something, we have an interest in realizing some desire,
and if we apply the principles of samyama, our desire is stronger then, right?
in this sense we can create our own personal list of additions
according to our specific desire to manifest
these intentions in everyday life, am I right?



Hi Ayamer,

It is great that you are enjoying this book on samyama. The first condition of samyama is to have some inner silence. You can cultivate inner silence through meditation. Thus, the most important spiritual practice is deep meditation. Without inner silence, samyama will not work.

Spiritual practices promote purification and opening of our nervous system to inner reality and capabilities. Inner realities and capabilities may appear as hidden in our subconscious, when we see our identity as an individual separated from everything else. As you continue with spiritual practices, your identity will shift, and your understanding will change. Then, it will be obvious that samyama deals with much more than the power of subconscious.

When Yogani writes that we use meaning in samyama, he means that in samyama we use meaning to move the inner silence. To simplify, you can see the inner silence as a still lake. In samyama, you drop meanings (words) just like pebbles in the lake, and create ever-expanding vibrations in the lake. Thus, the effect of samyama expands in the entire creation that is you.

Using samyama as a way to satisfy our personal desire will work only in a limited way, as personal desires are usually associated with an individual identity. The more we identify our natural unconditioned awareness with the objects of our experience, the less samyama will work. Or, to go back to the metaphor of the lake and the pebble, the more we are identified with the objects of your experience, including an individual separate identity, the more any pebble (any meaning) will be attached to a string. A pebble tied to a string will not drop in the lake of inner silence (if there is any lake of inner silence), and will not make any waves – it will not move much silence, and it will not have much effect.

In conclusion, if you are interested in samyama, the first step is to develop and maintain a regular meditation practice. Deep meditation is an effective way to cultivate inner silence – and you can find instructions here.

Your English is very good. Sometimes it is helpful to read the AYP lessons in our native language. I do not know what your native language is, but you can check to see if you find any useful translations of the AYP lessons here.

Best wishes on your chosen path.
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  07:50:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Blanche .. thank you for reply ...

note : i to pratice everyday 2 times day, ayp dm meditation , very long time


"Using samyama as a way to satisfy our personal desire will work only in a limited way, as personal desires are usually associated with an individual identity."

In this sense, doing a prayer with sanyama will not work well because a prayer for a specific person is a personal desire and therefore limited ?

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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  08:12:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
and my doubts continue ... I'd really like to understand this ...

from patanjali sutras Swami Aranya's translation

30. (By practicing Samyama) On the trachea, hunger and thirst can be subdued.

31. Calmness is attained by Samyama on the bronchial tube.

something that I always wanted to understand is about bronchial tubes, and about trachea etc ...

bronchial tube means calm to you? and trachea means that you will have less thirst and less hunger?

in which place and culture of the world does anyone say that to be calm we should think about the bronchial tube? if samyama is about meaning .. what does bronchial tube mean?

Edited by - Ayamer on Mar 11 2019 08:25:45 AM
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jusmail

India
482 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  09:10:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
bronchial tube is in our lungs and regulates the in flow and outflow of breath. You will agree that when you are angry or tensed, breathing is shallow and quick. by samyam on the bronchial tubes, you try to enhance calmness. The same thing goes with trachea, which is nothing but the food pipe. That is to reduce the stimulus of hunger.
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  09:43:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Okay .. but if a person does not understand anatomy and physiology then this is not going to work?

Is samyama about meaning? , and for a common person of little understanding, will not work?

and

still following this line of reasoning ...

21. When perceptibility of the body is suppressed by practicing Samyama on its visual character, disappearance of the body is effected through its getting beyond the sphere of perception of the eye.]

in what world culture can we say that visual character means that the body becomes invisible?

Edited by - Ayamer on Mar 11 2019 11:32:04 AM
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  11:45:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

Hi Ayamer,

It is great that you have a stable meditation practice.

The answer to your question regarding the need to deeply understand your anatomy and physiology is yes and no. Yes, you do need to have some level of understanding, and you probably notice more and more what is happening inside as the nervous system is purified. For example, you notice more and more how your breathing is affected by your emotions and thoughts, and how your breathing automotically slows down when you bring your attention to your breath or to the mantra - there is a deep connection between these processes, breathing-emotions-thoughts.

In time, you might notice even finer levels of change along your respiratory tract - and then the possibility of doing samyama on these other elements opens up. So, in a way, if you do not notice deeper levels, it would be harder to do practices involving these levels.

Paradoxically, even in the absence of that level of clarity, samyama will still work to a point, as long as there is some inner silence present. Samyama is not happening at the level of the mind, so you cannot "think" it.
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  12:08:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The teachings of Yoga Sutras become alive as we continue our spiritual journey. For example, in the Yoga Sutra edition translated by Thomas Egenes, the sutra 3.30 that you mentioned is translated as:

“Through samyama on the hollow of the throat, hunger and thirst are subdued.”

The hollow of the throat corresponds to Vishudha Chakra, the throat chakra. You might be able to perceive this chakra when you practice Jalandhara Bandha, fish pose, or spinal twist. A chakra could be perceived as pressure, vibrations, warmth, tingling, etc. When a chakra receives extra-energy like during asana practice, it affects all the layers of our being – that is, in this case, you might notice a sensation of purity and joy associated with the opening of the throat chakra. You might notice a change in your mental state. And more.

Samyama on the hollow of the throat could infinitely amplify the effects of the opening of the throat chakra, which will diminish hunger and thirst. However, it seems that the throat chakra does not open fully until the heart chakra is open. Everything is related to everything, and we need to do each thing after we have done everything else.

The best way to proceed is to continue with deep meditation, and then add gradually other spiritual practices to speed up the purification. Make sure you get plenty of rest, exercise, and have a healthy diet to support the process of spiritual transformation. Trust that things will happen at their own pace. There is no easy shortcut up this mountain. You are on a marked path, and now progress is only a matter of time.
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  12:19:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
ok thankyou Blanche

28. (By practising Samyama) On the pole-star, motion of the stars is known.

29. (By practising Samyama) On the navel plexus, knowledge of the composition of the body is derived.

What's the meaning of

in this way only scholars can have results with the patanjali sutras ... I do not believe it

now I will say what I understand about these words with no meaning whatsoever in relation to the purpose as for example ... polar star and navel ... which of us would know which navel is to know the composition of the body?

which of us knows which polar star is for the knowledge of the stars?

 I understand according to the knowledge to be extrurated in the inner consciousness, in our spiritual dna, in our subconscious
I believe that Jung says something about it in his books, where we all have dreams with similar symbols ... etc ... that is, we all have a spiritual dna and this is our knowledge .. so polar star .. navel, appearance of the body, lightness of cotton fiber work for people who know nothing about it, about the meaning of these words ... this does not mean that words with known meaning do not work ... because all this activates our unconscious. . our spiritual dna ...

In my opinion, until now, that's what makes sense to me.

If someone has a different view please let me know
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  12:21:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Another translation of sutra 3.21 is:

"From samyama on the form of the body - when the ability to perceive the form is disrupted and there is no contact of its light with the eye - invisibility is gain."

This is the sutra to gain invisibility. There is no magic here, nothing mysterious. The mechanism to become invisible makes sense from a scientific point of view. We see because photons bounce off the objects around us, then enter our pupils, reach the retina, impulses are send to the brain, and images are assembled in the occipital cortex. If something interferes with the photons bouncing off our body (like a screen that intercedes), the body becomes invisible - the same way nobody sees you if you step behind a screen.

In fact, this principle of interference is used by the airforce to make planes invisible. Very logical, isn't it?
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  12:30:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Ayamer



in this way only scholars can have results with the patanjali sutras ... I do not believe it



It has been my experience that these things work even if one does not believe in them, even if one does not know about them, when there is a level of sattva (purity) and outgoing spiritual practice. In this sense, one does not need to the a scholar, to have a deep understanding, or even to believe in anything. You know the joke: A belief means to trust something you know it is not true.

Each of us needs only to practice to check how these things work for ourselves. This is the reason knowledge based on experience is so important.
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  12:42:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Blanche

Another translation of sutra 3.21 is:

"From samyama on the form of the body - when the ability to perceive the form is disrupted and there is no contact of its light with the eye - invisibility is gain."

This is the sutra to gain invisibility. There is no magic here, nothing mysterious. The mechanism to become invisible makes sense from a scientific point of view. We see because photons bounce off the objects around us, then enter our pupils, reach the retina, impulses are send to the brain, and images are assembled in the occipital cortex. If something interferes with the photons bouncing off our body (like a screen that intercedes), the body becomes invisible - the same way nobody sees you if you step behind a screen.

In fact, this principle of interference is used by the airforce to make planes invisible. Very logical, isn't it?



yes, if there is a scientific explanation for this ok ... but this text of patanjali is very old ... before airplanes, correct?

What about the polar star? and about the sun?
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  12:48:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Another translation of sutra 3.21 is:

"From samyama on the form of the body - when the ability to perceive the form is disrupted and there is no contact of its light with the eye - invisibility is gain."

What is this translation? Can you point me to a book? website etc ...
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  12:56:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
As I mentioned in a post above, this is a Yoga Sutra edition translated by Thomas Egenes.

If you want to talk more about this and practice samyama, you may consider coming to a retreat. This June, there will two retreats in US, in New York and Massachusetts. Tristan (Christi in this forum) will generously come from UK to lead them with me. His schedule is super-busy, so do not miss this opportunity. There is nothing like direct experience.
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  1:43:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
One more thing. You ask:

quote:
Originally posted by Ayamer


"Using samyama as a way to satisfy our personal desire will work only in a limited way, as personal desires are usually associated with an individual identity."

In this sense, doing a prayer with sanyama will not work well because a prayer for a specific person is a personal desire and therefore limited ?



If you do samyama for healing/for the well-being of another person, it will work if you have inner silence, if you do not look for a specific result, if you do not think about yourself (if you do not think that YOU are doing the healing, or the healing means that YOU are a great healer). When we do not think about ourselves and we do not expect a result, there is no string attached to the meaningful pebble of our samyama. The pebble can drop in the lake, and the lake will respond. The more you pray/do samyama with all your heart for another person, the more it works. Let the person know that you pray or do samyama for them, and they will open more to your offering and the effect will be stronger.
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  3:47:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you dear friend .. very thank you . i live in Brazil.. hard travel thank you
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  8:36:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
We all contribute to the creation of this world, so no one mind can change it. This means that if you do samyama for someone, you will support the best possible outcome given the situation, but you might not be able to completely change it. This is a longer discussion for another thread - and another time. Who knows? Maybe someday we will meet, here or in Brazil- maybe someday you will organize an AYP retreat.

Best wishes on your chosen path!
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Ayamer

Brazil
78 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2019 :  07:44:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Blenches, I would like to have a copy of yoga sutras from Thomas Egenes, I searched the amazon ebook and I did not find, I only found paper book, do you know where I can find an ebook?

and could you paste here the sutra on strength and the sutra on friendship according to Thomas's translation?
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 15 2019 :  06:18:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the sutras on friendliness and strength:

3.23 Through samyama on friendliness, and so on, these qualities are strengthened.

3.44 Mastery over the elements is gain through samyama on the gross form, essence, subtle form, connectedness, and purposefulness of an object.

3.45 From that arises the ability to become minute and so on, perfection of the body and indestructibility of its characteristics.

3.46 Perfection of the body consists of beauty, grace, strength, and the firmness of a diamond.

In my opinion, without a consistent spiritual practice, the sutras make little sense and do not offer real guidance. Thus, the focus should be on the practice, especially on meditation. This will promote purification and a gradual thinning of the veils to have a clearer view of the nature of reality and self.

Edited by - Blanche on Mar 21 2019 06:08:41 AM
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swordsaint

29 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2019 :  9:26:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi everyone thanks for this discussion I have found it truly enjoyable.

I would like to just add my view on Ayamers doubts. I have been instructed in the TM siddhi program which is essentially very similar the AYP method with a different set of sutras etc. When I was instructed in such they did clarify what each sutra meant and what its purpose was for. It was a two week long program. I believe having some context in terms of what the sutra does and what its for helps in clearing these doubts and aided me as a practionner. However everything that was mentioned by the more advanced guys here is absolutely true. The power is contained in the word itself and in long term daily practice of our sadhana.

Thank you all God bless.
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Blanche

USA
581 Posts

Posted - Mar 21 2019 :  06:09:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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