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 Kundalini Issues Not Related to the AYP System
 A new level of experience
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Cato

Germany
215 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2018 :  3:59:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hi everybody,

I hope I didn't miss some readme before writing this text. I would like to tell you my short story before I move on to ask for your help.

I did some (purlely physical) yoga for some years and am doing asthanga yoga on a daily basis for a year now. I'd like to tell you the experiences I had recently. Some days ago, I was on vacation and lay in bed and was for some reason thinking about me and the universe being the same. I had some very powerful feelings of bliss and felt like crying several times for short periods but did not really. It felt like being in presence of the Divine. I stopped this experience because my wife came to bed then. The next day, I tried to reproduce that state and discovered that some body movements were going on. I could not explain that. And I could not fully reproduce that former state of bliss. Today, I gave it a try again, lay down on the floor and and did an awesome automatic yoga flow I would never have thought possible. I stopped after 90 minutes because my kids wakened from afternoon nap. I did it again some time later (it started immediately) and the automatic flow was even more awesome with (for me) very advanced asanas. I stopped again after 70 minutes because my family got back from a walk. I asked my ashtanga teacher if he knew about automatic yoga postures and he did not. I looked in the internet and found almost no information about automatic yoga postures. I very much hope that you can help me here. I would like to know where to go from here. The information I found about kundalini awakening (is it that?) was very intimidating at times. Especially, when you practice without a teacher (I live in germany and absolutely have none available around.). Can you tell me what to do? Should I continue my ashtanga practice with automatic sequences here and there? Should I change over to an automatic yoga flow completely?

I really hope you can help, thanks in advance.

Edited by - AYPforum on Jul 21 2018 4:54:47 PM

AYPforum

351 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2018 :  4:54:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1730 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2018 :  4:56:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Cato, welcome to the AYP forum

May I just clarify: are you saying that all the yoga you have been doing consists of asanas an no other practice?
I have to ask because there is some ambiguity about “astanga”. It means 8 limbs of yoga, so it’s supposed to include mediation, pranayama etc. but there are (or at least there used to be) lots of astanga classes where no practice beyond asanas was ever taught.

If you clarify this for us, we will have a better idea where you are and what suggestions we might usefully make.
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Cato

Germany
215 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2018 :  5:21:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I am doing the primary series of ashtanga yoga and now starting into the intermediate (second) series. It focuses on bandhas and breath, but (for me) there is no meditation or pranayama involved. I do it every day in the morning for about 45 minutes including shavasana/relaxation for some minutes at the end.

Yoga class besides, I'm pretty interested in yamas/niyamas/ethics/virtues.

Hope that clarifies the situation.
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Dogboy

USA
2162 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2018 :  11:08:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome Cato!

AYP is for the householder, I am one and this site has been a blessing. Ashtunga is indeed a kundalini enticer. You really should balance out energy with inner awareness of silence, achieved via a meditation practice. You can't have positive space without negative space. Too much energy can burn you out. I suggest you read through the first few lessons here on this site (https://www.aypsite.org/10.html) and decide for yourself.
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1730 Posts

Posted - Jul 22 2018 :  02:39:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Cato
It focuses on bandhas and breath, but (for me) there is no meditation or pranayama involved. [...]
Yoga class besides, I'm pretty interested in yamas/niyamas/ethics/virtues.


Thank you for the clarification.
It seems you have been covering about half of the 8 limbs: Yama, Niyama and Asana you have been practicing outright. Some Pranayama is mixed with your asana practice.

Pranayama and bandhas, as Dogboy pointed out, are energy movers. That explains how you came to have the experiences you described in your first post. But you have been missing out on meditation and that is a huge gap. Of the 8 limbs of yoga, 3 (Dharana, Dhyana, Samadhi) have to do with meditation, which is really the backbone of Ashtanga Yoga (in the original sense of the word.)

Back to your first question...
quote:
Originally posted by Cato
Should I continue my ashtanga practice with automatic sequences here and there? Should I change over to an automatic yoga flow completely?

In some ways, the automatic yoga would be a more powerful practice than the taught routine. When you are following your inner impulses to do this or that asana, you are going inwards. This is really what meditation is for - finding the way to deeper and deeper layers of the self.

So I will join Dogboy in his advice to read the lessons on this website. Should the AYP teaching speak to you, there is a community of AYPers is Germany. This is the AYP website in German: https://www.fyue.de/
although of course you can read Yogani's lessons in original, as your English is perfect. The German website will allow you to connect with AYPers in your country. Some of them may be local to you.

I hope this helps. All the best
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Cato

Germany
215 Posts

Posted - Jul 22 2018 :  05:48:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I thank you very much! It seems the german forum is largely abandonded, so I'll stick to this forum here.

I read in another post that a structured sequence gives more stability to the progress but if I understand you correctly, you recommend switching to the automatic asanas. I will try that.

Both of you recommend additional meditation. I guess you mean a stitting meditation with awareness for the breath? Could you give me some advice how that should be done best, e.g. several times a week for 15 minutes or so?
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1730 Posts

Posted - Jul 22 2018 :  06:15:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I guess the German forum doesn't have quite enough members to keep it going. It takes a big community to keep the discussion lively.

You will find meditation instructions in Lesson 13: www.aypsite.org/13.html
Meditation Q&As follow, just click "Next".

I can't really advise you with regards to the practice you have learnt at your yoga class. You will have to find a way to integrate it with your meditation practice. What I can say is that, if the asanas require a high level of physical effort, they should not be practiced right before meditation.

As a matter of principle, if it were my practice, I would follow my own instinct in choosing what asanas to do. The role of asanas is to facilitate and smooth out the energy flow in the body. By allowing the automatic movements to happen as they will, you are more likely to stretch and bend in the right places to allow the energy to flow freely.

While you integrate meditation in your routine, it might be prudent to reduce the length of your daily asana practice, especially if pranayama and bandhas are integral to it. There is such a thing as self-pacing, and it is a must when you do powerful practices like AYP.

Good luck!

Edit: P.S. As you are probably very fit after years of asanas, you might prefer a meditation position without back support. The idea is to find a position that you can maintain for 20 minutes without being distracted by bodily discomfort.

Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Jul 22 2018 06:32:24 AM
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Cato

Germany
215 Posts

Posted - Jul 22 2018 :  06:57:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
As a matter of principle, if it were my practice, I would follow my own instinct in choosing what asanas to do.


So you recommend to stick to the structured sequence since the asanas of the automatic sequence naturally cannot be chosen by oneself. I guess you are talking about integrating an automatic sequence here and there. Thanks for your advice.

I am still interested in the question from my first post: From your knowledge and experience, would you think this is pranotthana or kundalini I am experiencing? I cannot tell exactly, even not after reading this pretty good explanation: http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1979/cmar79/prano.shtml.
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1730 Posts

Posted - Jul 22 2018 :  08:32:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
HI Cato

Reluctant as I am to disagree with a Swami , I really cannot see the clear cut distinction that he is theorising between pranotthana and kundalini. There is only one energy.

When you start to feel pranic movements like you have described in your first post, the kundalini journey has begun. Small scale at first, that energy will grow and stabilize over the years, with practice. Some people talk about K awakening as if it were one event, that one could pinpoint to the day. It is not. yes, it's true that some developments seem more sudden and noticeable than others, but the unfoldment is in fact a gradual, lengthy process. To see the awakening as finished is to lose sight of the fact that the yoga journey produces successive openings - there is always a new depth, you have not foreseen before. In a way, the k awakening never stops. Quoting from a Gnostic gospel "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away".

Regarding "my recommendation", there is only one I would make at this point: Start meditating. You will know what to do about the programme of asanas and the automatic yoga.

Enjoy your practice. Let us know how you get on.

Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Jul 22 2018 08:36:46 AM
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Cato

Germany
215 Posts

Posted - Jul 24 2018 :  01:48:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a lot, I will do that!
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