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 Am I selfish ?
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capucine

France
65 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  06:42:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message

Dear AYP community,

Iím 40 years old, single, no children, engineer. I live with my mother and brother. We work together from our home for a big company. We spend all our time together: work time, noon and evening time, week end time...
I have a big trouble with my mother and brother yesterday. We donít manage to understand each other. Maybe you can advice me.

I have a week of vacation soon. Iíd like to go alone to go to ski, far from my home.
For them, if I loved them, I wouldnít have to go somewhere alone to do so dangerous thing (be alone to travel, ski and in the streets, at hotel). Because they will have a lot of worry and sorrow because of me. Even if Iím used to travel alone sometimes for my job.

Of course I love them but Iíd like to spend time alone too. How to solve it ? why have they these worries ? where is the true ? how to make them understand ? or how make me understand ? am I selfish and bad to make them so much worries ?

I like to have some activities like playing piano (I learn it), painting, running, gardening, reading difficult spiritual booksÖ they say itís too tired and itís better to reduce these activities and watch TV with them to relax. I donít want.
3 years ago, my mother was agree to let me go alone in summer holiday. But she let me do it because she thought I wanted to suicide, to avoid I committed it.

I know that I speak like a teenÖ itís a big problem in my life now.

If I leave them, they say that they donít want to see me again, because I would be someone very nasty, bad and they would have too much worries. Maybe they will suicide to punish myself.
If I stay, I feel I have not enough freedom. Deep meditation increases very much this feeling.

Iíd like to read your wise advice, thank you.

jusmail

India
482 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  08:57:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
You are free to do as you wish. Assure your family that you will be safe and may be you can call them often to to update your whereabouts to remove their doubts. Vacations are a good time to recharge your internal battery and a good time to do more grounding activities.

They, trying to control you, will not help their spiritual growth either. All the best
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  09:45:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Capucine

I have an old friend who had the same sort of problems with her mother. She and I used to be colleagues at university. She found it more difficult than the rest of her colleagues to enjoy the social life students typically do. Her parents lived in the same city where the university was, so she was living with them.

When she graduated and got an income, she moved out to her own flat. That pretty much solved the problem. Parents get used to their children's independence, even the most protective and clingy ones.

Your situation must be very rare - living and working with your mother. This gives her a lot of opportunities to be clingy and she probably had a long time to reinforce that habit. I guess it will take some firmness on your part. Reassure her that you love her, but she must understand you are an adult and you will have your own life.

Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Mar 20 2018 09:46:34 AM
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capucine

France
65 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  10:58:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi BlueRainCoat,

I was in the situation of your old friend at university. Moreover, I was very shy. My social life was very limited and today too.
I helped my mother to change of her very tired job to an easier one and she worked with me recently.

I agree I have to show firmness when I speak of my needed of freedom. But each time, itís finished with suicide blackmail: ďIf you left home, Iíd suicideĒ, and I stay. I saw my mother with a gun in my childhood, wanted to suicide. Her mother was here to stop her. Since, Iím really very screamed of it. Moreover, my brother acts like herÖ I really donít know how to deal with this situation. Any ideas ?

Sorry, the topic is heavyÖ
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lalow33

USA
962 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  11:17:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Look up borderline personality disorder.
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  1:46:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps suggest to your mother that she goes for some sort of counselling? It sounds like you need help getting your message across to her. Does she understand that she is making you unhappy with her suicidal threats? If somebody said that to me, I would respond immediately that "You need help. Let's get the help of professional". You will have to be very persistent in getting your message across, otherwise she will not understand that things need to change.
Remember she has been successful with her strategy so far, so she will keep using it. You have to make a change in your own behaviour in order to operate a change in her behaviour. Keep saying that you are planning to become more independent, say it again and again. And take small steps - go out more in the evenings and at the weekends, spend time away form her and increase the length of your outings bit by bit.
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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  4:29:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Let them know it is not them you are rejecting. It is not them you are leaving. It is not their love you are rejecting.

You would like to go skiing and enjoy yourself. You would invite them but know they can't go and would like to do something different than sit at home and watch them work on your vacation. You will still call them and talk to them daily I am sure.

The main thing is to let her know you are not running from her love.
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  6:12:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
That is only part of the story, Jonesboy.
You tell them you love them, but it has to be in the same sentence that lets them know the blackmail is not OK. They have a problem they need to address.
You tell them you love them as they are, they will continue to threaten with suicide. That part needs psychological or psychiatric help.

You don't need to go through this all on your own, Capucine.
The friend I mentioned in my post above was taking a university degree in psychology at the time. She realised she needed support, so she took counselling to help her deal with the issue. The emotional pressure is enormous. Do get professional help.

Good luck

Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Mar 20 2018 6:24:01 PM
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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2018 :  8:00:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
He wants help with the situation not a life lesson.

Codependency is what is going on.

You donít end it by saying the problem is them. The are family. Letting everyone know it is not a rejection of them is not a bad place to start is all I am saying.
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capucine

France
65 Posts

Posted - Mar 21 2018 :  09:47:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
My heart is warm and lighter reading your posts.

Iím going to change my behaviour, show thatís blackmail is not OK. I see itís not just a vacation issue. Itís really a codependency problem.

Thank you
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lalow33

USA
962 Posts

Posted - Mar 21 2018 :  11:17:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Why did your mom think that you would commit suicide if you didn't go on summer holiday? Did you tell her that?
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Mar 21 2018 :  1:36:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy
Letting everyone know it is not a rejection of them is not a bad place to start

Agreed, it's good place to start from, and something to keep reminding people of, while firmly dealing with the issue.
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lalow33

USA
962 Posts

Posted - Mar 21 2018 :  2:05:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Anyone that has worked with mentally ill people or has a member in their family( Both for me). It's not all cut and dry. It's sort of a mess. A bit of super awesome advice doesn't solve it.
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Mar 22 2018 :  02:55:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
First, you are not selfish! Your family is being selfish by preventing you from having your own life. I agree with BlueRaincoat. Therapy is necessary for your family, especially your mom. You may have to bargain, use leverage. Although you may be reluctant to do so, as it is a form of manipulation, the fact is that you are being manipulated and something must be done.

I agree with suggestions above to remind your mom that you are an adult, and gradually assert your independence in small ways; however, it won't be enough due to the severity of your mom's dependency and her suicidal tendencies. Rather, use the vacation as leverage and turn the table on her. You may need to sacrifice this year's vacation in the hope of a better future. I would tell her, "Mom, I love you so much! I really appreciate that you are worried about me going out into the world on my own at age 40, but being worried to the point of suicide is simply not normal. In fact, I am quite concerned about your repeated threats of suicide. Let's go to a family therapist to see if we can figure out how to resolve this." If mom and brother refuse to attend therapy, you then throw in your bargaining chip: "I am so worried about our family, that I will sacrifice my vacation, but only if you attend therapy with me!"

If that does not work, and they still refuse therapy, your next option is to [lie and] pretend that it is your problem. Say something like, "Mom, I admit that my desire for independence and to go on vacation by myself is hurting our family. I want to see a therapist but I am afraid to go alone. I really need you there with me. I need your support, I can't do this alone. Would you please go with me to support me??" You might even throw in, "I'm afraid that without professional help I may become suicidal again" at your discretion.

I realize it seems like game-playing but in severe cases like this you need to do whatever works. Some of my clients have used the latter approach ("yes, it's my problem") to trick their husbands into marriage counseling.

You deserve to have a life. Your mom needs help. All the best to you!
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capucine

France
65 Posts

Posted - Mar 22 2018 :  10:45:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The idea to do a therapy and get a professional help is a new idea and a good solution to try. Iím a little reluctant to the idea of manipulation, but the purpose is higher, if it can solve this unwholesome situation.

I was very patient during two decades. I tried full of things. I tried to gradually assert my independence in small ways. Each time, it just leads to a limit where threats come, and after I come back to the starting point, without energy and I need time to come back in the battle with a new strategy. Each time I tried to stay kind and see where was the problem with me. Reading your posts, I realize that Iím not the problem and thatís the situation is severe.

The core of the problem is that we donít have the same definition of love. We never managed to understand each other, even talking and arguing during hours.

For my mom, love is avoiding worries to the others and do what they want to make them happy. For me, love is to help and advice someone to help him to reach and realize his dreams and journey. And of course, let him freedom. Each one is so different.
For my mother, if Iím not at home itís because I donítí love her (because I prefer to do something else that to be with her). For me, we donít need to see someone to love him.

Radharani, your exemple of speaking really helps me. Sure, I will do it.
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Charliedog

1579 Posts

Posted - Mar 22 2018 :  10:53:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Capucine,

You received great advices, find the strength to free yourself from clinging family.
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Mar 22 2018 :  11:17:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by capucine
For my mom, love is avoiding worries to the others and do what they want to make them happy.

It's interesting you say this, because she is not doing what makes you happy. Does she actually know that her suicidal threats make you very unhappy?
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Dogboy

USA
1645 Posts

Posted - Mar 22 2018 :  3:46:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
At some point her bluff should be called. Go on your trip. Send her photos and sweet messages. Most likely she will be alive when you return, and may punish you with attitude. Don't take the bait: Always meet her words with a smile, find entertainment in them. Eventually she will learn her approach is flawed, and will have to abandon it.

If for some reason she follows through on her threat, know her actions are not your doing. All you have to do is live and love, we are responsible for our own choices.
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uniath

Finland
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 23 2018 :  08:14:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Relationships that are based on power games and control over others simply has to transcend at some point. Everything we need is already contained within, no need to take it from others.

I know it can be challenging as deep-rooted karmic ties dissolve, and that's why it's important to stick with practices, especially cultivating inner silence. Whereas right now your mother might have a tight grip on you, eventually that hand goes right through you, as you remain untouched in your inner silence. And then you can love her unconditionally.

When we got some momentum going on with this spiritual game, these things will resolve, no matter what. And as you set yourself free, you're also doing the same for others involved. Even though it might not be so obvious right now.

You know the situation better than any of us, so I'm sure you can make the right choices. When I encounter a challenging situation, I use it to further increase my bhakti and just pour everything to God. It's just a treasure waiting to be opened.

Just remember: "All emotion is the power of love" -Yogani
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sunyata

USA
1404 Posts

Posted - Mar 23 2018 :  08:24:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by uniath

Relationships that are based on power games and control over others simply has to transcend at some point. Everything we need is already contained within, no need to take it from others.

I know it can be challenging as deep-rooted karmic ties dissolve, and that's why it's important to stick with practices, especially cultivating inner silence. Whereas right now your mother might have a tight grip on you, eventually that hand goes right through you, as you remain untouched in your inner silence. And then you can love her unconditionally.

When we got some momentum going on with this spiritual game, these things will resolve, no matter what. And as you set yourself free, you're also doing the same for others involved. Even though it might not be so obvious right now.

You know the situation better than any of us, so I'm sure you can make the right choices. When I encounter a challenging situation, I use it to further increase my bhakti and just pour everything to God. It's just a treasure waiting to be opened.

Just remember: "All emotion is the power of love" -Yogani



Ditto. Beautiful,Uniath. Thank you.
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capucine

France
65 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2018 :  02:49:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Uniath,

I appreciate your post, to see this situation like a challenge to improve our life, to solve karmic relationships.

I try to continue to practice deep meditation but it is really hard. The mantra I AM is flooded with fears and panic. Inner silence is very difficult to reach, almost impossible. How to change panic into love during deep meditation ?
quote:
"All emotion is the power of love" ĖYogani

how to do it ?
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2018 :  09:37:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by capucine
How to change panic into love during deep meditation ?
You are, just by meditating, although it might take a little time to get there.
Just continue with the procedure of easily favouring the mantra. If the unpleasant emotions become so strong that they interfere with that procedure, follow the instructions in Lesson 15, I think it's the 4th paragraph.

All the best
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capucine

France
65 Posts

Posted - Mar 27 2018 :  03:10:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you BlueRainCoat .
I had forgot this lesson. It helps me too for the pain I have at throat during deep meditation.
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uniath

Finland
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 29 2018 :  04:46:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi capucine,

You already received good advice from BlueRaincoat regarding how to manage discomfort.


quote:
Originally posted by capucine


quote:
"All emotion is the power of love" ĖYogani

how to do it ?




Reading Lesson 67 - Bhakti - The Science of Devotion and Lesson 340 - Transforming Emotional Energy for Enlightenment should shed some light on that. That quote is from the latter.

I brought up bhakti because when at loss in life, it's something we can always rely on.
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capucine

France
65 Posts

Posted - Oct 16 2018 :  11:27:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Continuation of the storyÖ
I continue to meditate. I had a pain at the throat, itís gone. After, I had a big pain in the top of the back during weeks. Asanas and qi gong helped a lot. And one day, during a sweaty meditation, the pain is gone and since itís like I win strength.

My mother doesnít want to go with me to see a professional or to do a therapy. Maybe alone, but not with me, itís sure.
I went outside more often and one week alone for holidays.
I wanted to invite a friend at home, give him vegetables from the garden. My mother was really opposed to this idea. Some weeks after, I went outside to walk alone one day. She made me swear that I would be alone and not go to see this friend. So I swore, I didnít want to see him, I just wanted to walk aloneÖ but I had the feeling I was like a prostitute in her eyesÖ

I really donít understand. This friend is someone very good and full of qualities, spiritual like you here (I met him when I began to meditate). She always says that itís missing people with these qualities in life. She met him and she saw thatís it was someone very common. But she continues to say itís a bad man and she dreams up things that are false. Itís like she wanted I saw no one she didnít know before. In the past, all my infrequent friends were ďbadĒ people and with time I stopped to see them. For her, I would must see only wealthy doctor practitioners or notary with a big house and a big car and a good famillyÖ you see the picture. Even in this case, Iím sure it would not be okay.

It lets me very sad to see I can not see who I want and that I cannot invite who I want in ďmyĒ home. I just see I donít really have a home.
Moreover, I want to do some courses or formations Iím sure she didnít want I did (like a AYP retreat).
Thatís why I take the decision to leave my home (maybe my job if itís necessary) soon. I feel strong enough now. To have the freedom to see who I want and to do what I want in my free time.

I prayed for her during 2 or 3 years, to give her more light, love, respect, trust, kindness, empathy. But it seems there are no effects.
She just cries more often because of me or because of other people around her (they are often rude, violent, impatient). They react like a mirror to her and she doesnít see or understand it and doesnít want to change. She begins to have health problems.
These days, she cries because her doctor retires and she doesnít manage to find an other as good and kind. She feels abandoned. And if I leave her, she will feels very abandoned again.
How can I help her ?

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Dogboy

USA
1645 Posts

Posted - Oct 16 2018 :  5:16:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
By helping yourself. You will not be helping either of you by bending to her pronouncements and judgements.
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