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 Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality)
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2014 :  3:03:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
I want to not exist, to not exist forever, or not exist right now. do you get this ever?
the sages say i'm the eternal reality and i think i want to destroy that reality because it's horrible, but it's indestructible (apparently). there's no desire for the experience of bliss or union with it; deleting/destroying it seems better.
it's a persistant feeling..
some background info: i've been meditating for a few years and have self paced recently, tried to ground better, etc. but there's very strongly the sense of existing, and wanting the end of it. apparently the sages were 'unaware of the world'. unsure what to make of it all but if someone has input it might help. thank you.

Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2014 :  4:35:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I can relate.

One method of self-inquiry is neti neti, which is "not this, not this". The idea is that you're stripping identity away from anything of form (existence), with the goal of whittling yourself down to the non-existent seed of awareness. However, that can be a trap, of course, because here we are, still in the world of form. Another method of self-inquiry is affirmation, which is the flip-side of the coin. You can recognize that your self is reflected in all things: other people, plants, the air, the cosmos, etc.

I think the trick is to use both, and that way there is a fullness within the paradox. I like to say: I am not the body and mind, and I am the body and mind--simultaneously.

Here's a good lesson on the difference between witnessing and blocking out the world with psychological defense mechanisms:
http://www.aypsite.org/122.html

For me, meditation and other AYP practices have actually compelled me to get more involved and engaged in the world, even while seeking solace in the solitude of inner silence.

Best wishes on your path.
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Ananda

3104 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2014 :  5:13:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ananda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Joseph... I fully understand and sympathise... I am stuck where u at... But the main reason behind all this and i speak and face myself here... Is that my work life is a mess... I have no love in my life... And i am pretty much a big failure in most of what i do... But i get up everyday and try and make the best of things... I've changed or let go of many bad habbits within myself (many are still lingering) and i try not to hurt others anymore (yet i do intentionally or not sometimes...) i live in the hope that god might change my fate some day and that if i try and do my best and be out there... Things might open up... What is even worse in my case is that i've seen through the veil of a separate individuality yet still here i am... Thoughts of suicide float by here as well... But i think to myself... This illusion would keep on going in another form... Best stick and deal with what u know... There is a saying in christianity which goes.. Deny yourself, carry your cross and follow me... You have love for god... For the unknown... For the one writing these words who loves u in ways u can't imagine... To be honest i do so bcz i feel sorry for u and for myself... Peops like us need love and i say this in case u r like me... U might be stronger who knows... Thks for this window of release... Much love and namaste
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2014 :  4:35:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Cheers Bodhi Tree, Ananda.

If I'm busy in the world or not it seems to be all the same. it's like there's no difference between sitting in meditation and working hard with others, because the "I" is there in both.

What I've realized is that when awareness arises there's the feeling of being all alone, and highly conscious of the fact. There's nothing that isn't myself; there are no other people, just the One spirit, looking through the eyes of all the people. But it must be so alone - the Spirit/Awareness. I feel that this world of form is what the spirit uses to escape from itself, look outward into the world so that it/I am not confronted with the fact I'm all alone.

In spite of this there is one thing that never fails to ignite a spark of hope and that's thinking of a great sage/mystic, because I know most of them have been here and suffered this.

They are here in fact (I tell myself intellectually), but I can't feel their love and I don't know why, or how we could come to lose it, hence the suffering.
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2014 :  4:46:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The bad habits aren't yours, Ananda. they're in the field and no need to try to change them Thanks for the saying of Jesus, and the link.
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Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2014 :  8:28:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
What you describe is best understood as scenery. That is, we are on a journey, and the scenery will change as we move forward. With that in mind, I'm quite certain you and I can--and will--behold new shades and shimmers of Self, which will probably be increasingly mind-blowing, and way beyond mere utterances of sameness or uniformity.
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Ananda

3104 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2014 :  11:55:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ananda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Check main lesson 333. Yogani deals with this issue of loneliness over there. All the best. Salam
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adishivayogi

USA
197 Posts

Posted - Nov 19 2014 :  12:59:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
wants are what get in the way. awareness has to stoop down to want. you have to want dissolution ina different way. it itself has to be a very conscious want. not something that is happening in the traditional compulsion way we humans understanding. stillness is giving up thought, your wants, likes, dislikes, everything that in your mind. it will sink in and become a "homebase" eventually.

Edited by - adishivayogi on Nov 19 2014 01:04:43 AM
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Nov 19 2014 :  8:09:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah there's a lot of scenery for sure, Bodhi Tree, been dealing with a prematurely awakened kundalini for a few years (actually how I came across this site looking for help). It's probably behind the philosophical thinking and the alone feeling. I read Gopi's book where he says that once awakened it will try to dissolve all in its path, which seems to be the case.

the other symptoms are music/bell sounds in the head and buzzing or high pitched ringing, and occasionally visual disturbances.

I think I'll use this thread to note any changes in any of this, might help to keep track of it and try to understand better. I should have put this in the first post really but it kind of didn't seem important and has been going on so long i'm used to it!


thanks for all your support, it's much valued.
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Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Nov 19 2014 :  11:29:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I've read Gopi Krishna's book too. Symptoms of overload are challenging at times. Fortunately, we have plenty of good tools to help us dance with the transformation. Glad to be on the path with you.

Love. Resilience. Versatility.
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Ananda

3104 Posts

Posted - Nov 19 2014 :  11:53:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ananda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Check lesson 69 as well to get a full grasp of what's going on inside you.
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Nov 20 2014 :  12:44:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Dec 30 2014 :  4:40:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Update: Much the same, but a few things to note. I find that the alone feeling usually follows a time of stress/too much activity. It's been very strong past few days but there have been breaks in it where freedom and happiness prevails. There's a true connection to life in these times.

I've felt something that feels like a heartbeat.. in the perineum, and mid-lower back at spine, and the same thing in the chest, except when it happens in the chest it's powerful - a big thud, sometimes there's three or four in a row. Usually follows asanas or posture work or pranayama. Release of energy maybe.. hopefully negative energy..

But what to do about it if anything? (Don't want it to suddenly explode in my head like with Gopi Krishna. Must be cautious )

I see there are many breathing techniques and how powerful they can be, and there are many, many ways of directing the breath. And each one has its own distinct effect. Some dissipate tension, others seem to increase energy flow and then I may get louder ringing in the ears, or perhaps some powerful emotion. Been experimenting quite a lot with breath, and really noticing changes in the body. I think on this forum.. anyone practicing ayp or something similar is a kind of pioneer. There's advice and help but essentially what we're doing is experimenting, exploring new ways ourselves, and the paths have not been walked very much before us, and who knows what we'll come up with...

I reckon in a hundred years forums like this will be acknowledged for really helping everyone to understand chakras, kundalini, prana and all the rest!

Peace, and happy new year!
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Jan 01 2015 :  2:52:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Found an excerpt to describe the alone state mentioned. From Huxley's novel "Island":

" "No escape," he whispered, and the words confirmed the fact, transformed it into a hideous certitude that kept opening out, opening down, into depth below depth of malignant vulgarity, hell beyond hell of utterly pointless suffering....

....Immortal in its pointlessness, suffering would go on forever. In all other respects one was grotesquely, despicably finite. Not in respect to suffering. This dark little inspissated clot that one called "I" was capable of suffering to infinity and, in spite of death, the suffering would go on forever. The pains of living and the pains of dying, the routine of successive agonies in the bargain basement and the final crucifixion in a blaze of tin and plastic vulgarity-reverberating, continuously amplified, they would always be there. And the pains were incommunicable, the isolation complete. The awareness that one existed was an awareness that one was always alone. Just as much alone in Babs's musky alcove as one had been alone with one's earache or one's broken arm, as one would be alone with one's final cancer, alone, when one thought it was all over, with the immortality of suffering. "
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Anima

484 Posts

Posted - Jan 01 2015 :  7:39:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Joseph,

That's beautiful prose to illustrate your feeling. Thank you.
Suffering can give us courage.It's a unique gift to work through those storms. We can always see storm clouds on the horizon.

Did you know Aldous Huxely was close friends with great and spiritually-minded people, including Swami Prabhupada, who founded ISKCON, and Christopher Isherwood, the acclaimed novelist? He also was friends with a swami at the Ramakrishna monastery in California for many years.

Friendship is always here.
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Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Jan 01 2015 :  10:15:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I echo Anima's sentiments, which are very hopeful. Suffering is the raw material we can refine into liberation. Wishing you the best on your path, Joseph.
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2015 :  11:16:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Cheers Anima Deorum, Bodhi Tree,

I was aware Huxley was friends with J. Krishnamurti, but not the others. I think the both of them had felt that state. This passage must have been written from experience.

What I've been thinking about is how these states are possible in the first place? There is never an answer to that. There is support here though - lucky to have found that, I suppose..
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Jan 05 2015 :  11:41:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Half four in the morning, I'm wide awake.

We want to see God, and when we hear of some path and embark upon it and run, sprint even, instead of walk, we have little idea what we're setting ourselves up for.

This excerpt from The Doors of Perception should serve as another caution, for myself and others like me.


" The literature of religious experience abounds in references to the pains and terrors overwhelming those who have come, too suddenly, face to face with some manifestation of the Mysterium tremendum. In theological language, this fear is due to the incompatibility between manís egotism and the divine purity, between manís self-aggravated separateness and the infinity of God. Following Boehme and William Law, we may say that, by unregenerate souls, the divine Light at its full blaze can be apprehended only as a burning, purgatorial fire. An almost identical doctrine is to be found in The Tibetan Book of the Dead, where the departed soul is described as shrinking in agony from the Pure Light of the Void, and even from the lesser, tempered Lights, in order to rush headlong into the comforting darkness of selfhood as a reborn human being, or even as a beast, an unhappy ghost, a denizen of hell. Anything rather than the burning brightness of unmitigated RealityĖanything! "


I'm going to stay in the comforting darkness and if one day it suddenly turns to Light it will have nothing to do with me

Stay safe on the path..
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Anima

484 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2015 :  12:51:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It hurts in the darkness, but that too, will break apart. Guru knows. Keep the faith!
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joseph

117 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2015 :  1:41:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Aye, guru knows, and everything will happen in it's own good time
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khechari

Ukraine
13 Posts

Posted - May 18 2018 :  01:31:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Read this just now. Can relate so strongly!
This nagging feeling of existence which is the constant companion is the major source of suffering.
Deleting/destroying this nuisance seems most desirable, but also dissolution and bliss as the result of this delete.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1230 Posts

Posted - May 18 2018 :  01:49:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I would say it is not a deletion of existence that is required but an embrace - a love of all that is and all that is not.



Sey
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1579 Posts

Posted - May 18 2018 :  04:51:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Aaaah, nothingness
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