Shared Left Border

 

 

 

Help Yourself
And Others



Notices

What's New on
AYP Plus?

AYP Retreats
Worldwide Listing


AYP Teacher Training

Local Contacts
Meditation Groups,
Training & Retreats


Key L
essons

Start Lessons Here

Desire - Bhakti

Deep Meditation

Self-Pacing

Spinal Breathing
Pranayama

Chakras

Mulabandha

Sambhavi Mudra

Asanas - Postures

Siddhasana

Yoni Mudra
Kumbhaka

Uddiyana - Nauli

Navi Kriya

Kechari Mudra

Chin Pump
Jalandhara

Eight Limbs of Yoga

Samyama & Siddhi

Spinal Bastrika
Pranayama

Heart Breathing

Yoga Nidra
Cosmic Samyama

Mantra Enhancements

Solar Centering

Tantra

Brahmacharya

Vajroli Mudra

Whole Body Mudra

Yogic Diet

Fasting

Addictions

Hallucinogens

Shatkarmas

Amaroli

Nectar Cycle

Kundalini
Assistance

Sensitivity Issues

Spirits & Entities

Shaktipat

Self-Inquiry
Jnana - Advaita

End of Suffering

Karma Yoga

Dare to Dream

Evolution of Action

Prayer & Healing

Yoga for Children

Ayurveda

Summary of Practices

Time Management

Modifications to
Baseline System

Teaching

Retreats

Enlightenment
Milestones

Freedom


More Resources

AYP Plus

Public Forum

Plus Forum

AYP Survey

audioicon1.jpg (812 bytes)
AYP on Radio & TV

Yoga FAQ

Sanskrit Glossary

AYP Books & Audio

Downloads

AYP Books Flyer

Extended Booklist

International
Translations

Press Releases

Articles & Media

Promotional
Materials

Website Traffic

Links

AYP-Related Websites

Social Networks

Volunteer

Donate

AYP Public Forum
AYP Public Forum
AYP Home | Main Lessons | Tantra Lessons | AYP Plus | Retreats | AYP Books
Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Forum FAQ | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 AYPsite.org Forum
 Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
 What if it's Actually a Heart Attack?
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Jim and His Karma

2103 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2014 :  8:43:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
I've written before about distinguishing between spiritual symptoms and genuine medical symptoms.

You can read the whole posting I linked to above, but my three rules for myself have been:

1. If your doctor seems mystified, it's spiritual. Don't pursue the issue medically.

2. Don't accept drugs to treat symptoms a doctor can't explain.

3. Be safe: when in doubt favor your doctor's explanation.


One of the biggies is heart openings. Especially early in the game, they feel really "different", and might leave you fearful of a medical problem. It doesn't help that one of the main symptoms of heart opening (and, for that matter, heart closing) is palpitations. On three occasions I've gone to my doctor to check heart symptoms. Each time, she rolled her eyes, ran an EKG, and proclaimed everything fine.....again. I've built confidence because of this.

One night last week, I awoke with what appeared to be a very deep heart opening. It had the smoldering quality we all recognize. But whereas heart openings are expansive and radiative, this sensation was static. Heart openings feel integrated and respond to spiritual sentiments, but this did not. It just sat there. Unwavering. Non-radiating. Unexpansive.

Yoga symptoms have previously made me say "Wow, THIS is weird!". But, for the first time, I was saying "Wow, this is
WRONG". I tried to dissipate it by grounding downward. Nothing happened, nothing moved. So I tried to swell it upward. Again, nothing.

At this point, I noticed myself grabbing my cell phone. Not a conscious act. My body knew something. As I tried to think things through, I noticed myself getting dressed and packing a bag. And I headed out to the hospital. It wasn't an intellectual decision. I wasn't "listening to my instincts". Just my body walked itself out the door, without really consulting me.

To make a very long story very short, I was having a heart attack (I'm completely fine; minimal damage and congestion fully fixed via a stent, so no sympathy is necessary).

Next day (in hospital), the symptom crept back. Another heart attack. Again, my first thought was "heart opening". But it felt "off" in a hard-to-define way, and while, again, I couldn't analyze it, I KNEW somehow that it was bad, rather than just "weird". It felt more like a Fact than like grace. It didn't waft or vary. However I can't say it was completely un-lovely.

Finally, after the stent was put in, and I was completely safe, I watched my heart flapping and beating in a super-sharp echo cardiogram monitor (FYI, the inside of a heart looks very much like the inside of a clock, only made out of meat). For the first time in days, I unguarded my heart. And the mechanical process before me on the monitor kept going absolutely unchanged and unperturbed. I'd known it viscerally, but this really spelled it out for me: heart chakra isn't heart organ. I just wish the sensations were easier to distinguish. They weren't identical, but they were similar enough to cause confusion.

Sorry I don't have anything perfectly insightful to offer you other than the few tidbits above - notice your body's instinctive response (my mind over-worried when there was no problem, and over-hesitated when there actually was a problem), be wary of unwavering chest sensations that don't wax/wane or respond to spiritual thoughts, and when you feel in your bones, with clammy, cold-sweat horror, that something's off, get yourself to a hospital ASAP.

I hope this is useful enough for long time practitioners to make up for the fact that it may scare some newbies.

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Aug 30 2014 9:05:31 PM

Jim and His Karma

2103 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2014 :  8:50:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Two quick additional notes:

1. Before waking up, I was having a nightmare wherein a woman was following me around everywhere screaming at me to "Wake up! Get up! Wake up!" I begged her to stop; told her I was sleepy and not feeling well, but she persisted, much to my displeasure. It was quite stressful, and I woke up in a sweat. If I hadn't woken up, I may never have.

2. My doctor agreed that it was unusual for a 50 year old yogi/meditator in good shape to have this happen. But he also said those factors were likely why I made it through so unscathed.

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Aug 30 2014 8:56:48 PM
Go to Top of Page

Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2014 :  9:38:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Wishing you health and healing, Jim.

Thank you for describing the specifics. Lately I've been having certain sensations in my chest that are somewhat mysterious as well. Mainly a warm, soft pressure that seems to crop up mostly during meditation. It is pleasurable. It feels both like an energetic opening and the rebuilding/activating of tissue. I used to smoke a lot (cigarettes and pot), so there is probably still some long-term detox/purification occurring.

Anyway, glad you made it to the hospital safe and sound. Clearly, the "witness" was moved into action without any "decision-making" necessary. I've noticed this too, during both stressful and non-stressful situations.

Take 'er easy.
Go to Top of Page

Dogboy

USA
1683 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2014 :  9:44:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
...Sorry I don't have anything perfectly insightful to offer...


Perfectly insightful to me! And maybe because you had a "history of attention" and weren't afraid to trust it, you are with us today. Blessings and health to you!
Go to Top of Page

maheswari

Lebanon
2338 Posts

Posted - Aug 31 2014 :  04:45:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Go to Top of Page

Ecdyonurus

Switzerland
479 Posts

Posted - Aug 31 2014 :  05:24:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jim, thank you for sharing this experience, wish you healing.

In the first weeks of AYP I experienced weird things in the heart region and some were similar to heart attack symptoms, but now I know it was not a health issue. But it really scared me because I did not expect a subtle practice like meditation to have such a physical impact.

Edited by - Ecdyonurus on Aug 31 2014 06:11:16 AM
Go to Top of Page

Jim and His Karma

2103 Posts

Posted - Aug 31 2014 :  11:38:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
In the first weeks of AYP I experienced weird things in the heart region and some were similar to heart attack symptoms, but now I know it was not a health issue. But it really scared me because I did not expect a subtle practice like meditation to have such a physical impact.



This is the relevant distinction:

quote:
Yoga symptoms have previously made me say "Wow, THIS is weird!". But, for the first time, I was saying "Wow, this is WRONG".
Go to Top of Page

Zanyan

USA
54 Posts

Posted - Sep 01 2014 :  3:53:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Go to Top of Page

Anima

484 Posts

Posted - Sep 05 2014 :  10:27:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jim, glad you're okay
Go to Top of Page

cosmic

USA
821 Posts

Posted - Sep 05 2014 :  1:13:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Very insightful, Jim. I'm glad you're well and in good spirits!
Go to Top of Page

Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Sep 10 2014 :  9:50:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Glad to hear you are ok Jim! Did you ever find out the cause of the heart attack? Did the tests show any reason why it may have happened?

I had a similar experience once except opposite in some ways. I thought I had strained something in my cardiovascular system, maybe a muscle or something. I went to the hospital, they thought I was having a heart attack and were getting ready to ship me out to some heart attack centre at a bigger hospital. Then I was rescued by it coming to light that I have an irregular heart beat (but normal for me). All the tests came back clear. The whole experience made me face some fears, it was one of those situations where you feel like Life is conspiring to open you further despite your resistance. So no energetic confusion, but I certainly have had that question before, energy moving or not, can be difficult to distinguish at times.

Thanks for sharing.

A
Go to Top of Page

Jim and His Karma

2103 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2014 :  12:14:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Anthem, it was a matter of congestion, which was relieved by a stent.

Just some follow-up, as I continue dumping observations for future folks who one day might need to seek out this info (I can't imagine it would be of any positive benefit for beginners to read....would just increase their anxieties...but, then, I think yoga forums in general are counterproductive, fostering groupthink, spiritual materialism, status seeking, and a think-y, cognitively obsessive attitude toward spirituality):


If I'd experienced this stuff as sharp angina pain (as many people do), rather than a rather pleasant sensation of heart fullness, it would have been not only easier to identify the problem, but it'd have made my last couple weeks easier.

First, I can't meditate. If I do, heart opens, and it freaks me out a little (not a biggie; I'm pretty sure I can relax that emotional response when it's appropriate to do so), putting me in a nebulous position where I'm never quite sure I'm totally ok. And I need, for the time being, to be sure.

Second, unless angina is experienced as screaming pain, it's really hard to distinguish random chest sensations from a recurrence of the problem. Everyone who carries a cell phone in their front pants pocket experiences non-existent vibration/rings in their thigh, as random sensations are organized by the mind into whatever the mind's looking for. Well, this is like that, only a thousand times stronger, because the stakes are so much higher. You keep thinking you're having another heart attack. That's a problem.

Cardiologists tell you to call an ambulance if you feel any symptoms in your chest, and that's ridiculous because 1. we all feel stuff in our chest all the time, and 2. per above, the mind organizes those sensations, and 3. after having a stent inserted (or any other angiogram procedure), you'll definitely have strange chest sensations. So the very worst part of this is lots of stress-filled moments of deciding whether a given twinge is meaningful.

If your symptoms are searing pain, then I'm figuring you don't get as caught up in the ambiguity of it all.

I'm being permitted to exercise more and more vigorously, and, as I do, all this stuff seems to be calming down. It's by far the longest I've ever gone without practicing, but that's okay.


One quick note. I said "I can't meditate. If I do, heart opens, and it freaks me out a little (not a biggie; I'm pretty sure I can relax that emotional response when it's appropriate to do so)". How am I so confident I can override that emotional response? Because regardless of what your emotions are doing at any particular time, heart contains that; encompasses that. Heart comes first. Heart precedes. And that includes worries about the (physical) heart, as well as anything else under the sun.

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Sep 11 2014 12:19:38 PM
Go to Top of Page

Blaskhyrk

Germany
15 Posts

Posted - Sep 12 2014 :  08:50:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It is very interesting topic to talk on.

My wife lately had troubles with (and I do not know the full name in english) the Achilles part on the right leg that was bigger and swollen. She was once gaining a perscritption from anither doctor in another town and on the informational flyer were so many symptoms that there was only one conclusion to it that was very clear that it is a poison - examples: serious problems with liver and other body parts and as well 1/3 of the patients that tok it had hart attack or other serious heart failures problems. As I know as well this medicament or others from this company that name I do not remember (From Us) were banned.

Greetings and well wishes.
Go to Top of Page

Jim and His Karma

2103 Posts

Posted - Sep 30 2014 :  7:39:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Update (once again, just because I'm figuring at some point this will be useful to someone):

My "clench ratio" (the most important statistic about your heart; it gauges how well it's functioning as a pump) is completely normal.

I outperformed on my stress test; my EKG didn't budge from normal at any level of exertion.

I'm cleared for all activity....except inverted poses (ala headstands), because I'm on a blood thinner (for at least a year), and that contraindicates being upside down. This is actually deeply disappointing, but less so than, say, dying would have been.

The most helpful things I've done:

1. laid off practices for a few weeks

2. at my first checkup after the stent procedure, the cardiologist told me I could walk as much as I want. I walked 5-6 miles per day (haven't walked that much since Kundalini awakened and I needed grounding!). This did a lot to even out my energy/worries, and, for reasons I don't understand, also "normalized" my chest so I wasn't feeling as many scary odd little murmurings (per above). Brisk walking is really crucial. It also felt good. Walking is the antithesis of incapacitation, and it feels like a lovely expression of that.

The stress test, which came two weeks later, really increased my confidence. A stress test is always a bit worrying (even when healthy), because the aim is to try to coax you into a heart problem (in order to determine your cardio-vascular system's overhead). But it was good to finally push hard, after all the pu$$yfooting around. After the stress test, I'm ok doing yoga practices again, because I know my overhead and have proven to myself (and my doctors) that I'm not frail, constantly on the verge of further problems, etc.. Meditation doesn't bother me, even with heart opening.

So if you're ever in this situation, I'd suggest you 1. walk like crazy, and 2. wait for after the stress test to resume practices.

For me, it was a boon, because my kundalini went back to dormancy, which makes it easier to experience silence at the deepest level. Also, I've previously noticed that taking short breaks can help "scrape" off habits and expectations that build up. This was by far the longest break I've taken, and it was a really nice scrape!

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 01 2014 08:56:32 AM
Go to Top of Page

Shanti

USA
4842 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2014 :  03:52:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing this.
I have often wondered how I would know if it is a real heart attack? Especially in women, as (generally) the symptoms of a heart attack are not pain but more like what you have described. So the point of trying to move the energy downward to ground or upward and it not moving is a very good thing to keep in mind.

Glad you are feeling better now.
Go to Top of Page

Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2014 :  1:36:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
...health...strength...wisdom...
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
AYP Public Forum © Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.33 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000

 

 

 

Join the Mail List:
News and Events
Near You


AYP PLUS PREVIEW


Direct Downloads

eBooks - PDF, EPUB
and MOBI-KINDLE

FREE eBooks with
MP3 AudioBooks

SAVE  with Bundled
Multi-Title Downloads


Preview
AYP Books

(PDF Books Flyer)

Easy Lessons

Advanced Yoga Practices Book



Spiritual
Adventure Novel

The Secrets of Wilder Novel


Enlightenment Series

Deep Meditation Book


Spinal Breathing Pranayama Book


Tantra Book


Asanas, Mudras & Bandhas Book


Samyama Book


Diet, Shatkarmas and Amaroli Book


Self-Inquiry Book


Bhakti and Karma Yoga Book


Eight Limbs of Yoga Book


Eight Limbs of Yoga Book



Questions & Answers

 

 

Public Home | Plus Home | Main Lessons | Tantra Lessons | Topic Paths | Interviews | Videos | Site Search | Links Section | Testimonials | AYP Survey | Books | Downloads | Contact