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 Tantra - A Holistic View of Spiritual Development
 spinal breathing, sexually stimulating
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nearoanoke

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2006 :  1:10:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
I tried spinal breathing while doing tantric masturbation as per alvins suggestion in another thread. On the contrary to his experience, I found SB to be more sexually stimulating, especially on the inhale when i reach the third eye the stimulation is more. I have to stop stroking in order to prevent myself from ejaculating. When I try tantric masturbation with just deep breathing and no spinal tracing, it is not sexually stimulating.

The good outcome of this is an understanding to me that tracing the spinal nerve is not just a mental imagination but an imagination that has an effect.

Has anyone tried spinal breathing during sex or masturbation? What are your experiences?

-Near

Alvin Chan

Hong Kong
407 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2006 :  01:08:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
HI Near,

Interesting experiment. Actually, whenever I do spinal tracing, I also combine it with deep and long Ujjayi breathing. So it's hard to tell what stop the ejaculation.

It's sure that deep and long Ujjayi breath alone can keep one calm and thus bring more control on ejaculation.(delaying it) But for me when I add the spinal attention (and close my eyes) my senses naturally turned inward. So this part is more on my mind (which has graet influence on my body, of course). I kind of forget about everything about sex.

So it's not (not yet) magical about the effects I've experienced. It's just due to a replacement of lustful thoughts (which every man knows will speed up ejaculation) by an inner attention and awareness.

I am interested to know your case. Do you get a stronger stimulation despite the distracted attention on lustful thoughts?

One more thing to try that we can expand it further in another thread(if you don't know it already): in a classic yogic text it was suggested that when a man is about to ejaculate he should hold the semen inside by performing Uddiyana bandha (with holding breath outside) UNTIL the urge to ejaculate ceases. Sound like Vajroli, but that you create a negative pressure to suck up (and hold) the semen before it comes out!!

The only problem for me is that the final exhalation (right before the Uddiyana bandha) itself involves much muscular contractions that may lead to ejaculation before you are in your Uddiyana bandha!! So I always try this not so close to the edge, and thus is unable to tell how useful it is when you're really on the edge. May be a slower exhalation will help.

Alvin
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Kirtanman

USA
1651 Posts

Posted - Aug 19 2006 :  12:35:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kirtanman's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan

HI Near,

Interesting experiment. Actually, whenever I do spinal tracing, I also combine it with deep and long Ujjayi breathing. So it's hard to tell what stop the ejaculation.


Alvin



Hi Near & Alvin (and ALL),

I just wanted to comment that per my rather dramatic "ecstatic conductivity" experiences connected with both nectar and kechari -- that tantric masturbation is a fairly big part of it all (it's kind of like stepping on the gas --- whatever ecstatic conductivity I'm experiencing is experienced *more* if I'm tantrically masturbating at the same time.

Another analogy (and possibly a more fitting one, in terms of what actually seems to be going on physiologically, and in terms of subtle energy / prana / kundalini) is that it seems to be very much like tossing logs on the fire.

Yogic lore / literature (can't cite specific references, per "can't remember" ... ... sorry!) contains references to a direct energetic connection between the second (sexual) and sixth (Ajna / third eye) chakras -- and apparently, Western science is catching up and "verifying" this -- there are glandular / biochemical / endocrine system dynamics going both directions (sixth / pineal to second / "gonadal" / adrenal -- and vice-versa).

One of the things I wish I could do (though that's more a figure of speech than an actual desire) is to pinpoint which parts of my practice have contributed to which "advances" -- but for all of us, it's a very individual combination of practices / things, anyway.

For instance, I've noticed in the last few weeks, that when sexual energy is stimulated (via tantric masturbation), that the rest of my system (i.e. eyes draw upward, attention draws energy up with my breath, tongue goes up, etc.) "aligns" with the sexual energy, and draws it up --- to the point where a direct effect is often secretion of nectar (seemingly) from my tongue (it's literally like my tongue is ejaculating!).

Pretty wild, let me tell ya!



(It's like - "Ah Hah! I always knew this *MUST* be good for something!!)



It's *almost* like my whole system has become a giant, energetic lingam (Sanskrit for penis, despite the fact that many yogic types try to downplay the symbolism. Yoni is the female equivalent.)

I've seem "lingam" defined as "sacred cylindrical stone" or that "the lingam is worshipped because Shiva has no form". Shiva does too have a form - he's the naked happy-stoned dude with dreads, tripping on the visions from his third eye [and yes, the *true* form of Mahadeva Maheshwara (the Great Great Lord of Light) is Formless, just as Devi Parvati Ma (his main squeeze, aka Shakti Kundalini / Kali Ma) is not only a beautiful woman -- but all Form.

But I digress .... (as I often do ....)



"Everything's temporary if you give it enough time"
-- Jewel (Kilcher), (from the song) Stephenville, TX
from her (newest) album "Good-Bye Alice in Wonderland"

("Now Playing" -- and seemed fitting to interject somehow -- the Truth is everywhere ... including in the _next_ song that just came on .... you know the One .....)

Vunde gurunam caranaravinde
Sandarsita svatma sukhavabodhe

(Everybody sing along!)



And quick - who can name the multi-platinum (yes, multi-platinum ...) album that the song is from??

Maybe the English translation will help (though the lyrics are sung in Sanskrit -- to a hot, wet, pulsing ... electronica beat!)

"I bow to the lotus feet of the guru
Awakening to the happiness of the Self revealed"

(remembering, of course, the wherever else the guru may be ... the guru is in you!!)



Yep -- absolutely .....

Madonna!

(That Madonna!)

No kidding.

First line from the track Shanti / Ashtangi, from her 1998 Album
"Ray of Light".

The guru is in you, and the truth is freakin' everywhere!




So here I sit, writing about how masturbation is helpful to turbocharging my spiritual awakening, and experience of the divine, while listening to pure enlightenment flow through my computer speakers from the voices of Jewel and Madonna, while seriously referencing the Penis(Lingam)of God , and God Himself (and Herself) as a naked dread-laden happy-stoned (on the bliss of consciousness -- and/or the Ganja he gave the world, per Yogic scripture / lore) dude and his hot, ultra-sensual girlfriend (who doubles as the bundle of nerve-fibers and subtle energies stored at the base of each of our spinal columns ....)

And so .....

A. Sometimes, Life just ROCKS, y'know??

B. Jai Jai Shiva Jai Maheshwara Jai Shakti Kundalini Jai Durgayei Ma Jai Kaliyei Namaha!!

C. To all you uptight, repressed puritanical types ---- C'mon IN, the Bhakti is FINE!!



So, back to *my* body (yes, we "have to" ....)



... for a moment.

It's literally like there was a switch flipped, several weeks ago, and this newfound conductivity seems to be a permanent thing.

It started with the third eye becoming *much* more noticable (it was kind of "almost imagination" for a long time, and then became a very real-seeming light, that I would sometimes see / sense with my eyes open).

Then, the LIGHT (the "Million Suns" spoken of in Yogic / Vedic scriptures and lore) went ON (when I close my eyes, instead of dark, it's [when I'm in a meditative, or "energy enhanced" state] BRIGHT - like someone has a flashlight right on *this* side of my eyelids -- I literally though a light spontaneously flipped on, one time - when I was in a dark room -- it can be *that* bright!

Then, this sexual ecstatic conductivity kicked in.

I'll masturbate for a couple of minutes, and then at any point, just bring my attention to spinal breathing, with my attention focused at the third eye, and my eyes (closed) and tongue raised -- and it's like the flow is *reversed* -- instead of being focused in my genitals, it's focused in my (above my neck ....) head --- my _whole_ head!

Often, the joy / gratitude / ecstasy becomes so profound that I literally can't think -- all I can do is just BE in the utter heaven of it all (which has nothing at all to do with the sexual stimulation -- that becomes pretty much forgotten, by that point -- as you might imagine).

And the BEST part of all?

There's this very tangible sense that I've just _barely_ cracked the door open!

This isn't the destination --- oh, no --- it's but the faintest glimmer of the beginning of the journey.

REALLY.

Yes.

There _are_ worse ways to spend a little of one's free time.

And lest you think that I do nothing but sit around in awe of my own yogic awesomeness (kidding, I assure you - especially per the following ...) --- I had a relatively sucky week at work, my diet is quite crappy, but not nearly as crappy as my finances -- and my apartment is a mess.

And my breath stinks.

Okay, I'm exaggerating.

My breath isn't that bad.



Point Being, though -- I'm *not* "Joe Super-Advanced Yogi" -- and egoically, I'll even doubt my worthiness for all this good stuff -- but the fact of the matter is:

SOME combination of my practices (daily kirtan chanting - repeating divine names, in Sanskrit, along with meditation, spinal breathing, spiritual reading and dialog, hanging out with spiritual teachers and groups, and a whole lot of very genuine Bhakti [God / Yoga / THIS is what life is _about_ for me -- and that *really* seems to have a LOT to do with "my" results] --- has produced these results -- and they're expanding / enhancing daily, or nearly so.

On the flip side, I'm a regular guy -- I like regular music (now playing - "Building a Mystery" by Sarah Mclachlan --- some of her lyrics are amazing .... Sarahmclachlanlightenment!), I like fast food and have a 9-5 job, overdue bills and an aging car.

All of which speaks to the essence of AYP -- we're ALL wired for THIS -- for yogic evolution -- for daily living in a bliss and ecstasy that most of us literally could not imagine was even possible, not that long ago!

Good stuff!

Jai Ram, Jai Ma, Jai Yogani -- and Jai All of You -- All of Us -- All of THIS!

(Jai Ayam! -- Ayam, for any who may not know, is "This" in Sanskrit -- This, This ..... THIS!)



And a final word or three on choking th .... er, "Tantric Masturbation" ....



To avoid ejaculation, relax, and keep the stroking at a relatively low volume -- don't let the fantasy or the stroking get too intense.

Bit by bit, the "goal orientation" of ejaculation drops away - and you can keep a nice "medium level" of arousal and sexual energy going for basically as long as you want.

It also seems, though, to be good for the sexual energy / ecstatic conductivity to take it *right* to the edge, and as Yogani has said in the (Tantra) lessons -- this will likely involve a few "spills", at least in the beginning --- which isn't a problem, as long as ejaculation doesn't occur too often (see lessons for guidelines).

The benefit, though, is that you come (pun fully intended!) ... to learn your body very well.

I can get to the point where the spasms of ejaculation are just starting, and then I ..... stop.

I constrict the muscles (same action as stopping urination in mid-stream -- which is a good practice, as I believe Yogani mentions in the lessons) in that area, and breath in, and draw my attention UP into the brow center.

The _combination_ of those things helps to stop ejaculation, while maximizing energy flow, and (seemingly) locking in the "re-direction" of the sexual energy.

And I'll close with a statement that I wouldn't have believed too long ago myself:

The last couple of times I've ejaculated (few and far between these days -- sometimes 1-2 times, and then waiting at least a month, but usually more like 1-2 times, and then waiting closer to two months, and sometimes 90 days, or so) -- I've had a rather interesting thought, as follows:

"WHY did I EVER think that this feeling ...." (ejaculation / orgasm) ... "... was all that great -- it's NOTHING compared to .... THIS!"

(the ecstatic conductivity I'm experiencing through my whole system - most noticably above my neck, at the _same time_ as the genital orgasm / ejaculation.)

It's a LOT like someone handing me a check for $10,000 -- and then saying, "Oh, hang on --- here's a dime, too!"

(Nice - but the check has my attention a lot more than the dime does!)

Yes, Tantra fans ---- it's THAT good.

THIS good.

Jai Ayam!

Namaste,

Kirtanman

PS - I imagine there's a female equivalent to all this, and I invite our "lady yogis" to comment.

PPS - Sometimes the sheer Gratitude can be one of the best parts. A little while ago, I typing along, with my humorous riffing, about Shiva as "happy-stoned dude" - and the true essence of Shiva - the Truth, Life, the SPACE in which Life (Shakti Ma) Dances -- became SO present -- as a 45 year old man, in reading glasses and workout shorts, typing on a computer keyboard, and listening to Madonna sing, while feeling my stomach gurgle because I need some dinner, while feeling wonderfully connected with a group of people I technically don't know, but feel deep spiritual affinity and friendship with -- that tears of sheer, happy gratitude sprang to my eyes.

This - this connection with the Divine - is REAL.

Not off in the stars, or as related in scripture (though in both those places, to) -- but "regular real" -- right here, right now.

Writing these words.

Reading these words.

Me.

You.

Us.

This.

Here.

Now.

The tears are welling up all over again.

How utterly awesome.

Have a great night, everyone!!

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Kyman

530 Posts

Posted - Aug 19 2006 :  07:20:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kyman's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
"It's *almost* like my whole system has become a giant, energetic lingam (Sanskrit for penis, despite the fact that many yogic types try to downplay the symbolism. Yoni is the female equivalent.)"

Gives new meaning to the word, dickhead.

I've experienced a similar welling up. Although I haven't tried it during kechari, which I hear tale is an amusing position to find one's self.

It feels like heat in the belly rising up. Makes my hips wiggle sideways. The spine has a movement too. Reminds me of charming a snake.
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Alvin Chan

Hong Kong
407 Posts

Posted - Aug 19 2006 :  09:01:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your sharing, Kirtanman. It seems to me that you're very excited when you typed. Is that related to your practices?

By the way, as I still have only very little (if any) estatic conductivity, I would like to know more about your time line. When did you start your practices? And when did you start the tantric techniques? When did you start to ejaculate that infrequently? And how long after that did you start to feel such a strong flow of estatic conductivity?

I have stopped ejaculation for a month now, again. But like before, not much is happening. Just want to know if it's helping me much on cultivating estatic conductivity.....

Edited by - Alvin Chan on Aug 20 2006 12:50:42 PM
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Kirtanman

USA
1651 Posts

Posted - Aug 24 2006 :  01:47:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kirtanman's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
[quote]Originally posted by Kyman

"It's *almost* like my whole system has become a giant, energetic lingam (Sanskrit for penis, despite the fact that many yogic types try to downplay the symbolism. Yoni is the female equivalent.)"

Gives new meaning to the word, dickhead.


Hey now ........!



I would probably, like, take umbrage, or something, except:

A. Like probably about 99.8% of the people reading my post, I thought of that .... gag ("Puns are our friends") / joke. Ish. Comment. As well.



B. Quite simply .... you're right. It does. In a rather fun and amazing way, actually.

ALSO:

Yeah, I get the humping / wriggling stuff at times, too.

I like to think of those activities as "spontaneous kriyas" ... as opposed to say, "perverse dysfunctionality".

For one, I feel much yogically cooler (picture Snoopy, as "Joe Cool", but humping a yoga mat, with kirtan chanting in the background.)

On the other hand ...

Don't.



Probably best, all the way around.

Huh?

What?

Oh .... uh .... you're welcome!

Um ... everyone .... that was some shimmery guy named Babaji.

He said, "It's about freakin' time y'all lightened up a little. THANK YOU. Now go have some FUN with this stuff."

Fine by me ......!

Namaste,

Kirtanman

PS - Anyone ever notice that dude has great-looking hair?

PPS - Gotta go. Apparently, I'm going to be taught the ancient, super-secret "Pull My Finger Mudra" ...... stay tuned .....
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Kirtanman

USA
1651 Posts

Posted - Aug 24 2006 :  03:44:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kirtanman's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan

Thanks for your sharing, Kirtanman. It seems to me that you're very excited when you typed. Is that related to your practices?


I think that may qualify as the ultimate straight line of all time ....!



Er, yeah ..... you could say that ......!



Semi-seriously, though - honestly -- Yes. The emotion, the bhakti, the joyous gratitude -- that's all absolutely, directly, related to all of the practices I have referenced.

I'm beginning to experience more and more that this is how bhakti works, from an evolutionary standpoint, like this:

1. We feel bhakti, even if it's kind of a subtle push to practice, or to find out more about what is real or true.

2. We get some results, even if it's just enjoying ourselves.

3. We're motivated to continue.

4. The bhakti increases.

5. IMPORTANT PART - Steps 1-4 repeat a few times, until there's a neurophysiological shift, where we feel an increase in our energy, well-being, bliss, peace of mind, and love (among other things). I've described it as "my entire physical, mental and emotional landscape has shifted." (Expanded, Enhanced, Evolved).

6. From this new, higher "platform", we experience that our _capacity_ for bhakti has increased, and is experienced more powerfully and profoundly, which ............ increases our bhakti!!

Steps 3-6 begin to cycle, usually (in my experience, anyway) much more rapidly than 1-4 did ..... a VERY positive snowball effect!



I know it (practices) is not about seeking a payoff -- but joy is clearly meant to be _en_joyed, y'know?

THE POINT IS:

I essentially waited _years_ for my first major .... what would you even call it ..... Mahabhaktananda (the Great Bliss of Bhakti), maybe?

I literally thought that all that stuff about "bliss" and "ecstasy" was poetic, illustrative, and quite possibly a bit exaggerated.

In the words of Sri Sri Adi Shankaracharya:

"Nope. Ain't."

(Okay, so I'm paraphrasing a little ... that's very much the essence of what he said. Somewhere. I'm pretty sure.)



And very, very seriously: my point in sharing ALL this stuff is to say, "If *I* can experience this level of ecstasy and bliss .... anyone can!"

It's happening for me _exactly_ as the lessons outline.

I experience more bliss just sitting around, currently, than I even realized was _possible_ a few months ago.

Has it changed my life?

You BET it has!!!

Has it made EVERY moment heavenly?

Nope. Not even.

Has it helped every moment be better / more peaceful than it otherwise would be?

100%.

My guess is: by the time most of us start to experience this level of bliss, we've realized the ego-trap of thinking that any state - whether yogic bliss, or the rush of great sex, or getting a lot of money, or prestige, or romantic love -- will be the "end all, be all" or "ultimate pay-off" for us.

IT'S NOT ABOUT STATES, NO MATTER HOW GOOD A GIVEN STATE MAY FEEL.

If there's any way to put it into words: it's about the freedom from attachment to states -- which, in my experience --- is a large part of the bliss-filled evolution that we experience via practices.

I used to wonder, "HOW will I *ever* become detached?!"

I'd be like, "I am witness consciousness, AAUUMMMMM ..." - and then two seconds later, be like, "My life sucks!" or "My heart is broken .... Waahhhh!" -- and be quite sure that the Enlightenment Gene (or at least the "Detachment Gene", had passed me by.

Jai Jai Shiva Shambo Maheshwara that that's NOT the case!!



When we're taught - whether here, in AYP, or by other, similar (yogic / tantric / eastern) paths that all we need to do is *practice* and it will all fall into place ....... we're being told the TRUTH.



THAT'S the HUGELY COOL part about what I'm trying to convey, here:

I didn't TRY to get to this level of ecstasy experience, and I didn't TRY to attain this peace (which passeth any understanding *I* ever had, lemme tell ya!!) -- both those things just HAPPENED .... QUITE UNEXPECTEDLY .... PURELY as a RESULT of my practices (all of them; I have no idea which practices facilitated which results).

"Yoga doesn't ask me to believe; yoga asks me to practice."
-- Dave Stringer

By the way, as I still have only very little (if any) estatic conductivity, I would like to know more about your time line. When did you start your practices?

Sporadic meditation in 1999, more frequent in 2002, daily in 2005, springtime.

And when did you start the tantric techniques?

2002. I had a girlfriend who was a tantric practitioner. She and I took Tantra Teacher Training together, and practiced Tantra (sexual, and otherwise) daily.

When did you start to ejaculate that infrequently?

Roughly the last six months. Over the last year and a half or so, I'd say my average (time between ejaculation) has been about once per month -- which a couple periods of more ejaculation (several times in a week --- until I really understood that I was setting myself back, yogically, by doing that -- and that realization occured about 14-15 months ago.)


And how long after that did you start to feel such a strong flow of estatic conductivity?


Let's see - imagine Ecstatic Conductivity on a scale of 0 to 10, with 0 being where most people live ... 1 is the first taste of true, yogic, ecstatic conductivity (i.e. it is a result of our nervous system evolving, which stems from our AYP or other yogic practices).

I lived at zero for most of my life, and tasted maybe .5 or so, at a spiritual retreat in 1999. Tasting that changed my life. In 2002, at Tantra Teacher training, I got up to about 1 ... but for several days, off and on. Changed my life even more.

I dropped back to zero ... and continued my path ... tasting "peak" experiences of .5 to 1 maybe once every few months -- and started hitting roughly .75 to 1 in group kirtans, or when attending satsang with Adyashanti, or another awakened teacher.

Please remember that when I say ".5 to 1", I am talking about states of physical, emotional, mental and spiritual ecstasy FAR more intense, deep and powerful than most people EVER experience. The world's best orgasms (for a man, anyway .... ) are maybe a .3) --- the .5 to 1 realm is more _subtle_ than orgasm .... but to me, at least ... feels _better_.

Several months ago, I hit 2 for the first time ... but it lasted for well over 24 hours. I was _amazed_. I was driving around, feeling genuine ecstasy coursing through my entire body ... I (jokingly, of course) said to people, "It's wild ... it's like a shot of freakin' heroin!" --- but far better, because I was _more_ conscious, alert, aware, genuinely happy, etc. (and I've never had heroin - but have had high doses of morphine, in the hospital - and it's allegedly similar).

Then, a couple of months ago, I hit 3 .... standing in my bathroom, at the sink.

My eyes went up, tongue went up, lights went on, thoughts went ... somewhere non-near-by ... and any feelings / sensations /sense of well-being I had EVER had in my life paled by comparison.

I started to think, "Oh My God, This is Samadhi!" ... but only got about 1/3 of the thought "out" before all thought ceased -- and there was only ............ only .......... only ..........

Acutya

Acutya is the Sanskrit word for "no words are possible" -- and I'm *very* glad there's a word for that in some language, because that's exactly what it was --- it quite literally can't be expressed.

As Adyashanti points out, words can point TO the truth, but no words can BE the truth, or reality -- because as soon as we express / define something, we box / border / limit it.

In some way I don't pretend to understand, and certainly can't articulate (per the above, and also just .... don't have the ability ...) -- it is largely the boundlessness, and "inexpressibility" of bliss that makes it SO awesome.

It just IS, and what IS, is infinitely wonderful.

When really experiencing ecstatic conductivity, our awareness of this - of ourselves (for what else is there, or indeed, could there be?) unlocks / unleashes -- and the magnificence of Ananda - Bliss - is lived.

Do I always feel this ("... what else is there, or indeed, could there be? [than ourSELF]")?

Not currently - but when the bliss starts up (as it is, a bit, now) - that awareness comes with it.

(And I have no words at all for how MARVELOUS it is!!)

THEN, a couple of weeks later, I had a "Mahapiphani" (Maha-Epiphany - "Great Epiphany" -- a newly famous term in pure Sanskritlish ...) -- I hit a solid 3.5 (the only sounds possible, for me to utter, initially, were moans of pure delight) AND I realized that I _knew how to replicate it_!!

I had the keys to Chez Ecstasy!!

And I thank Shivashakti that I didn't get them a moment sooner ... because I would've driven right off the cliff, I assure you.

So, I was able to visit Chez Ecstasy _every single day_.

THAT'S life-changing!

If I have a rough day at work, I pop into the Men's Room, do a little A, a bit of B, and a dash of C for about 15 seconds, and A-Blissing I Do Go!

I had no idea, until very, very recently that reviewing plans for the fall segment of core product marketing campaigns could be so unutterably glorious.

But it can -- with managers and colleagues none the wiser (except for wondering why I'm always so "good natured").

!!

(They would be, too .... and I hope with all my heart that some day, they will be ....!)



Which brings me to a few weeks ago -- I burst forth into 4-land.

One of the "roads" by which 4-land is entered, involves a degree of ecstasy so high, that if one is lying down, one finds that one's heels, elbows and the crown of one's head are all that is touching the bed, as the body arcs and arches in utter, highly energetic ecstasy.

It subsides a bit, of course -- but the ongoing, subtle form of it is still an order of magnitude beyond even 3.

IMPORTANT NOTE: And please understand -- this is NOT about labeling or quantify ecstatic states (as much as it may seem like it is) -- it is about _communicating_ the relative magnitude of the ecastasy, and when it happened, in answer to Alan's question. My "4" may be your "2" or your "15" ---- I don't know (how much experiences compare) -- and it doesn't matter .... it's just about conveying the magnitude. Hopefully.



A couple of weeks ago, I expanded into, I'd say .... 4.25 -- which is, relatively speaking .... where I am now.

I just tested it, while sitting here at the computer - I close my eyes, and relax -- and feel .... expansion, and pleasure ... and light. A little involuntary gasp / exhale of pure pleasure escapes, as does a little shiver of ecstasy.

When I had that moment of thinking, "Oh My God, This is Samadhi!" -- and the thought went away -- and I submerged / expanded / died / birthed into infinite ecstasy ..... that was maybe 1/3 of the power and magnitude of the little test I just did (and I've got to keep a "handle" on it, so I can finish this message ..... and yes, I'm still amazed / speechless / grateful beyond words).

WOW.



If you've ever seen Eckhart Tolle on DVD -- pay attention to when he imitates a person experiencing deep pleasure -- and you'll see (unless I'm talking out of my blissed-out butt, of course .... ) that it's more than an imitation! Eckhart is going into a state of very real ecstasy .... for about two seconds ... and then coming back to his talk -- presumably with the ecstasy coursing through his system at a more subtle level (as I'm doing right now -- and other than that, I'm *not* comparing myself to Eckhart).



(I think he's awesome, and love his teachings --- I just want to be clear that I'm genuinely not making a comparison ---- just sharing an illustration that seems fitting).

I have stopped ejaculation for a month now, again. But like before, not much is happening. Just want to know if it's helping me much on cultivating estatic conductivity.....



Please see comments above.



(The answer is YES. It's helping you. As is every other moment of genuine practice, whether it be spinal breathing, meditation, spiritual study, serving a fellow being, providing uplifting energy with any thought, emotion or action, having fun, being good to yourself, doing your duty, opening your heart ..........)

As Yogani might say:

"Like That!"



In 1999, someone asked me why I was into all "this spiritual stuff".

I answered that I didn't really know -- it was kind of like skydiving - it was intriguing, and interesting, and other people seemed to be having a good time with it -- but after actually jumping, there was a vague sense that maybe I'd gotten myself into more than I'd realized.

However, turning around wasn't exactly an option.

Switching metaphors in mid-stream .... in 1999, the spiritual road was freshly paved, and lined with pretty flowers, and singing birdies.

Since then, it went around a few dozen curves, became rather bumpy, washed out entirely in places, and detoured through Mordor before dissolving into the deepest realms of Hell.

A few years / several lifetimes / eternity or three later, Hell had a hint of a muddy, stinky, sticker-bush laden, poop-filled goat path ... that went uphill. Steeply.

Then it opened up into a swampy meadow, with a brackish stream.

And cross a bridge -- onto a pleasant country road, that after a while, became paved -- and then opened into two, and then four lanes.

And the pavement gave way to pure gold, those original flowers became bouquets of love-filled human hearts, unbound -- and the singing birdies became choirs of heavenly angels, harmonizing on the exquisitely perfect note --- as I arrive.

Guess where I am?

Yep.

Right here.

It's all THAT good.

Really.

(And all the "singing birdie / angel" stuff is said quasi-tongue-in-cheek ... but with underpinnings of amazing levels of very, very real daily ecstasy.)

To "de-romanticize" it completely -- I have been facilitating biochemical processes and reactions in my body/mind, by my daily yogic practices, which in turn have caused neurophysiological changes / enhancements to take place in thhat body/mind, which have caused my capcity for, and my daily experience of, bliss and ecstasy to increase very dramatically.

What's the "miracle" that got me here?

Daily practice.

Meditation.

Spinal Breathing.

Brahmacharya (cultivation and re-direction of sexual energy)

Kirtan (not part of everyone's practice, but an essential part of mine) -- and please remember: all kirtan really is, is a combination of Mantra, Pranayama [breathing], and Bhakti / Samyama [genuine sense of devotion, combined with intention of love / well-being for all]) -- so, for those who may not feel drawn to kirtan, or who don't want to augment AYP in that way --- if you're doing "serious AYP", you're already doing the same things that I do, with kirtan.

Self-Pacing.



So, "that's that" Bhakti-Fans!!



Jai Ram, Jai Ma, Jayayam!

Namaste,

Kirtanman
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bewell

1271 Posts

Posted - Aug 24 2006 :  09:22:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Kirtanman,

As I read your generous offering, your words not only inspired a rise in my (easily stimulated) ecstatic conductivity; but also, something specific happened in my tongue. A sweatness like honey. Very pleasant, but passing, as experiences all are.

Warm regards, and much respect,

Bewell

PS Like you, I'm 45.




Edited by - bewell on Aug 24 2006 09:41:33 AM
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Kirtanman

USA
1651 Posts

Posted - Aug 24 2006 :  11:32:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kirtanman's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bewell

Thanks Kirtanman,

As I read your generous offering, your words not only inspired a rise in my (easily stimulated) ecstatic conductivity; but also, something specific happened in my tongue. A sweatness like honey. Very pleasant, but passing, as experiences all are.

Warm regards, and much respect,

Bewell

PS Like you, I'm 45.




Thanks, Bewell! Your kind words are a great start to my day (out here on the "Left Coast" of the United States ...!).

Just between you and me ....



... I sometimes wonder if my posts can be a bit lengthy or "over the top" - but as I believe I've mentioned before, they're (my posts) completely authentic on both counts.

Reason I mention this, is (very) late last night, after writing that post, I was feeling that way --- and I got an impression / felt (emotionally) that *in* my heart, my posts are an offering - not in any kind of "making a big deal about it" way -- but purely in an "I hope readers benefit in some way ....

.... so *thanks* for your confirmation of that!



I remember reading about Ramakrishna (last year), and how he would go into ecstasy / Samadhi at "the drop of a hat" (usually more like "at the start of a kirtan", at "seeing an image of Divine Mother", "speaking a spiritual thought" and/or "meeting a highly conscious person".

(I'm just saying those were his triggers --- not commenting on either my consciousness level, or yours! )

I'm just saying that, at the time, that phenomenon seemed really strange -- but now, I'm starting to *get* it -- this same type of thing (which you referenced, vis a vis your tongue) is starting to happen to me, more and more, as well.

This may sound like a strange analogy (or not) but new mothers sometimes have a hard time getting their milk to flow -- but after a few weeks or months, the slightest stirring of their baby - even if they just barely sense it, more than physically hear, feel or see it -- causes their milk to flow.

"Like That".




(I think).

Thanks again, very much, for sharing this with me, and with all of us here in the forum.

I'm looking forward to hearing (and posting) many more such thoughts, vis a vis the ecstatic conductivity that we can bring forth from, and in, one another - and the world around us.

And cool, regarding your age -- I "just turned" - and have a good friend who just turned 44.

She was in "where did the time go??" mode, and I said, "Well, I don't know about you .... but I'm a LOT happier than I was when I was 35!"

She emphatically agreed, and added, "Or 25!"

I responded, "Ohhh, yeah! And even 15, for that matter .... I think "5" itself was the last "5-age" that could give 45 a run for its money!"

(And while we were both kind of joking, that's all very true!)

And ....

"So far so good!!"

And, for all you young whipper-snappers out there .... hey, you have something to look forward to!!



And to those even more "seasoned" than Bewell and myself (example: Yogani ....) it's nice to know that *we* have something to look forward to (your greater biokarmic experience in a given lifetime, combined with your even-more-expanded bhakti and yogic bliss).

Jai All!

Namaste,

Kirtanman



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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Aug 24 2006 :  11:53:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

I sometimes wonder if my posts can be a bit lengthy or "over the top" - but as I believe I've mentioned before, they're (my posts) completely authentic on both counts.

Hello Kirtanman,

your posts always seem on-topic and in the spirit of the forum, but when they get very long, I for one, because of time constraints, don't always end up reading them through, which I regret. There was a time when I could read every post in detail, but increased forum traffic has changed that.

You may find that shorter is sweeter, and more powerful, and that you get more out of the forum that way. If you have the time to make them shorter that is. You've heard the joke, with great truth behind it, "I should be writing you only one page but I haven't time so I'm writing two"?

Enjoy AYP,

Cheers,

-D
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Alvin Chan

Hong Kong
407 Posts

Posted - Aug 25 2006 :  09:47:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I face the same problem, with even greater difficulty. Kirtanman, your sharings help a lot. But what even a native English speaker Because of time constraints and my limited reading skills, I'm hardly able to catch up with half of what you say, and I feel sorry for that since I know you must have put a lot of time in it.
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Kirtanman

USA
1651 Posts

Posted - Aug 25 2006 :  11:32:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kirtanman's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan

I face the same problem, with even greater difficulty. Kirtanman, your sharings help a lot. But what even a native English speaker Because of time constraints and my limited reading skills, I'm hardly able to catch up with half of what you say, and I feel sorry for that since I know you must have put a lot of time in it.



David & Alvin,

That's very valuable input, from both of you (regarding the length, and detail of my posts) - thank you.

I will do my best to adjust accordingly.



My goal in participating here (other than hopefully helping us all to have a good time, of course! ) is to give at least as much as I receive, and hopefully more (meaning: if we all focus on contribution, any "getting" that happens for each of us will take care of itself, yes?)

So, for that reason - again - I very sincerely thank both of you (and I would guess that others feel the same -- the two of you both have a tendency to "speak out" more than other people here often do, and personally, I find that refreshing, helpful and enjoyable!



I do enjoy both of your sets of posts very much - everything from the topics introduced or commented upon, to the specific "technical" (yoga-specific) details, to the willingness to "speak plainly" (making statements that may not be as "soft", or "yogically correct" (the forum equivalent of "politically correct"), as some people might be comfortable with.

"All of the Above" hold great value, and often quite a bit of enjoyment for me.

Thanks again -- see you around (here)!



Cheers & Namaste,

Kirtanman
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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Aug 25 2006 :  6:55:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
making statements that may not be as "soft", or "yogically correct"

LOL, thanks, "yogically correct" -- I love it!

Incorrectly yours,
-D
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