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 Tantra - A Holistic View of Spiritual Development
 Spiritual sex outside marriege
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Pramod

India
10 Posts

Posted - Jul 08 2013 :  12:55:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
As I understand, Tantric Sex has more to do with Erotism ( prolonged) and then lifting this generated energy higher in our body. For some persons in middle/mature age ( like me of 55 years), getting enough excitement from spouse is an issue( though they have strong sexual desires as such). Use of porn has been discussed in these forums and considered healthy to solve this issue. Can it be extended to getting into spiritual sex relations outside marriage? This can take many forms - paid sex, paid body massage, extra marital relation, 3 some or 4 some meets, online chat relationships and so on. If such relations are clearly for the purpose of generating more sexual(kundlini) energy for spiritual objective( with avoidance of orgasm) and not merely for sexual fun and responsibility towards social setup is maintained, is it ethical? If we are able to do it with consent of spouse and family life is not disturbed, should such methods be encouraged? Or if we don't feel enough sexual energy with spouse, it is better to ignore tantric path and focus on other ways of yoga?

AumNaturel

Canada
687 Posts

Posted - Jul 08 2013 :  5:27:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Pramod,

the lessons do not involve themselves in areas that have more to do with lifestyle choices. They instead describe ways in which the practices can be integrated for a most positive or desirable outcome for everyone involved within as many lifestyle arrangements as possible. There are the Yamas and Niyamas, do's and don'ts, that cover the basics and beyond. The tantric side of the path is always encouraged, and there isn't any reason that would make it ok to ignore (for those of-age). The basics of preservation to whatever degree is comfortable and balanced is a necessary starting point, and as far as I understand, entirely sufficient - everything else that happens in the body would take place on its own with regular yoga practice. It is, however, the sitting practices that enable everything else, and not the other way around, at least for the approach here. So in direct answer to the question, yes, do focus on the other ways of yoga first, and then consider pairing it with tantric methods, beginning gradually as the tantra lessons recommend.

The way I understand what you are asking about based on other readings is that such tantric practices would take place as rituals. They would be highly regulated, and tightly restricted to only those far enough along in their development to be able to know what they are doing, whether every other person taking part should really be there, and what unique benefits they would be deriving from it (if there are any; this is implied as a result of their taking part). This is without mentioning the obvious health risks that would always be there no matter what, and subtle cross-connections that would surely form along with the implications that are so far unknown but most likely negative-unbalanced. The repercussions in the couples would pop up in some form or another. I have no doubt about that.

Maybe in some utopia it might be possible to make it truly and perfectly balanced for all involved, but that's not reality. Just my opinion and reasoning, and not meant as a judgment of any sort.

"Use of porn has been discussed in these forums and considered healthy to solve this issue."
I am not so sure about that. See Lesson T38 for more on that, which also relates to more of the topic.
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Will Power

Spain
415 Posts

Posted - Jul 09 2013 :  2:09:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I know someone who had a girlfriend, and then started to secretly meet another girl. He was attracted by her, but soon he told me that he was living a nightmare, always anxious because of the double life. He still loved his girlfriend, but he left her and told her about the other girl. Some days later he realized that it was a mistake, but there was no way back.

Lahiri Mahasaya's advice about marriage is clear and wise. He said it is the founding stone for the sadhana, because the stability of the marriage helps one to practice Yoga and to attain absolute stillness. Having sex with your wife helps keeping the mind stable.
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Pramod

India
10 Posts

Posted - Jul 09 2013 :  3:47:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Aum, thanks for the reply. let me clarify my question more. Actually when i am saying extra marital partner for arousal, i am not talking of a compulsive, additictive and unresponsible sex behaviour. What i am refering to is a controlled, conscience and desciplined spiritual sex with outside marriege partner. Also I am assuming that the person is doing other practices of yoga and want to add tantric for more enhanced expepreinces. I have heard that in ancient India such things were very common for spiritual benefit. Khujrao temples in India are ample proof of it. So my querry basically is that which of following 2 options is better ? one- if one is not getting arousal from spouse then forget tantric sex, second - try porn, soft sex or spiritual sex outside marriege partner, get arousal and lift this energy for spiritual benefit. I request form other advanced yogies( and also yoginiji) here to reply on this.

Edited by - Pramod on Jul 09 2013 4:17:00 PM
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yogani

USA
5152 Posts

Posted - Jul 09 2013 :  6:54:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Pramod:

Tantric sexual relations with a partner (spouse or other) are not a prerequisite for enlightenment. Neither is frequent stimulation using porn or other means. These are personal matters that no one can give a right answer on, except you, through your own process of discovery on your path.

In AYP we take a broad approach to sex and spirituality that can accommodate a variety of lifestyles, ranging from celibacy to an active sex life. The underlying principle is "preservation and cultivation" of sexual energy. This can be done in sitting practices with the use of siddhasana and related techniques. Or it can be done in normal sexual relations with the techniques that are offered in the Tantra lessons. Or both modes can be utilized according to personal inclination. One thing is for sure -- tantric sex alone is not going to get us very far without daily sitting practices in the picture.

There is no right or wrong answer on tantric sex. It depends on individual preferences and the life situation. It is your call. It is suggested to weigh the pros and cons in your situation and proceed with caution. When it comes to matters of sex, there can be hidden pitfalls, as have been pointed out already.

If I had a rupee for every time a sincere aspirant asked about pursuing tantric sex outside of their marriage, I'd have a lot of rupees.
Most of the time the inquiry is colored by something that may well be worked out within the marriage. And it may not have much to do with tantric sex. Remember, the woman is divine goddess, no matter what we restless men may think or want. Are we able to honor the goddess right in front of us? This is not to preclude any sort of "arrangement" that might be conjured up. The possibilities are endless. But to what end? And at what cost?

A stable marriage is a far greater asset on the spiritual path than any tantric encounter can be. Not that encounters should never happen. It is a personal thing. Nevertheless, results on the path come from what we are doing everyday in our practices and our life over the years. There is no magic enlightenment switch we will find in a tantric temple, or anywhere else. It is steadfast dedication on our journey over the long term that makes the difference, and that is best cultivated in a stable environment.

So it will be whatever you make it. AYP covers the underlying principles and basic methods. The rest is up to you. Practice wisely, and enjoy!

The guru is in you.

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Pramod

India
10 Posts

Posted - Jul 10 2013 :  12:24:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a lot Yoganiji for the nice reply
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Kahlia

161 Posts

Posted - Jul 12 2013 :  08:59:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
"A stable marriage is a far greater asset on the spiritual path than any tantric encounter can be. Not that encounters should never happen. It is a personal thing. Nevertheless, results on the path come from what we are doing everyday in our practices and our life over the years. There is no magic enlightenment switch we will find in a tantric temple, or anywhere else. It is steadfast dedication on our journey over the long term that makes the difference, and that is best cultivated in a stable environment."

So true!
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Pramod

India
10 Posts

Posted - Jul 12 2013 :  12:21:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Kahlia. I also understand the importance of stable family life and also the social structure(specially when i am from India). That is why I have a precondition for it, before going for extra marital tantra practices.
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2013 :  12:59:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
"Are we able to honor the goddess right in front of us?" /Yogani

Yes. That's where the greatest gems are hidden. In what we discover are in our projections when we see anything less than divine beauty and miracle in our partner. I wish you all the best, Pramod! And a million thanks for a beautiful post, Yogani!
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Jul 17 2013 :  9:38:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by emc

"Are we able to honor the goddess right in front of us?" /Yogani

Yes. That's where the greatest gems are hidden. In what we discover are in our projections when we see anything less than divine beauty and miracle in our partner. I wish you all the best, Pramod! And a million thanks for a beautiful post, Yogani!



Dear Pramod,
I agree with the above, and Yogani has explained it very well.

Having said that, each of us has our own unique path in our relationship with the Divine and our partner (if any). I do not wish to judge the choices that others make. But since you asked for our input: For me personally, honesty is crucial to relationship. Therefore IF your wife is in agreement - let's say, for example, that she is simply not interested in having sex with you or exploring tantra - if she says it is ok with her that you practice with someone else, then I think ethically it is not a problem, as long as both of you are in agreement and you have her blessing.

What bothers me is sneaking around, lying and cheating. That is how you poison a relationship.

If everyone is being honest with each other, then in THEORY it should be ok. However, in my experience and knowing people who have had "open marriages" and practiced in this manner, all too often emotional bonds are formed, things become complicated, and peoples' feelings get hurt. So it can be very tricky and cause problems, and probably not worth the trouble in the long run.

IMO the ideal situation would be to explore tantra with your spouse if at all possible because she is, as emc pointed out, the Goddess whether you can see Her or not. After all, the Divine Union that you seek is ultimately inside of yourself, and in each of us, including and especially your wife. But if you focus more on the sitting practices solo you may eventually find that you really don't need any kind of external sex anyway. It's very nice but not a requirement in yoga.

P.S. If you and your wife have the slightest inclination, it might be fun and helpful to attend a tantric retreat together and possibly rekindle the sexual spark between you. [img]icon_heart.gif[/img]

Edited by - Radharani on Jul 17 2013 9:54:17 PM
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Dogboy

USA
1569 Posts

Posted - May 30 2019 :  11:14:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
After all, the Divine Union that you seek is ultimately inside of yourself, and in each of us, including and especially your wife. But if you focus more on the sitting practices solo you may eventually find that you really don't need any kind of external sex anyway. It's very nice but not a requirement in yoga.


This. I, too, am middle-aged, not married to a yogini nor is she inclined towards tantra practices. If we have relations more than three times a month, well then, it's been a very active month. Ecstatic bliss is available to me (thank you AYP!) with attention/intention, along with outwardly expressed love (thank you samyama!), so in actual relations with my wife, it becomes the divine dance just by happening, by what it am bringing to the party. Frankly, our marriage is as strong as it has ever been.

The automatic transmutation of my sexual essence on a daily basis has heightened arousal in the every day. It is on my meditation cushion, in the shower, in the mirror, walking down the street, driving the car, falling to sleep at night...it is the rise within of both male and female (I now have sensitive nipples?!!) and a sense I am opening like a spring flower in the autumn of my years. The rise of inner silence is palpable in meditation, allowing for all this inner and outer sexual expansion.

OP's original questions about seeking tantra outside of marriage and the ethics of doing so perhaps can be solved by finding the goddess within your wife and life, it is all a trick of the mind, encouraged and supported by your dedicated AYP practice. Arousal is available for the asking, and many times does not involve the genitals at all. Love spills forth without much effort at all.
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