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Trying

USA
12 Posts

Posted - Dec 13 2011 :  07:06:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
I've done some other stuff but have been doing AYP for a couple of months now. When does the bliss start? I'm still dealing with the breakup of my marriage 8 months ago and so far the practices are just reminding me what a jerk I've been in the past. I haven't forgotten and I'm trying to forgive myself for that.
At least hypnosis made me feel better. Again, when does the bliss start?

Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Dec 13 2011 :  07:47:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not a quick fix. You have to decide to meditate twice a day, consistently for a long period of time. Then you will begin to clear out obstructions. Sometimes there is a lot to get rid of, such as the kind of feelings you are talking about.
It's better to get rid of that stuff rather than just get some quick bliss and still have that stuff saved for later.
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jeff

USA
971 Posts

Posted - Dec 13 2011 :  08:39:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
In addition to practices, the key is learning to forgive yourself. After that, you learn to truly like your self.

Try to let go and have a good day.

Regards, Jeff
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wigswest

USA
115 Posts

Posted - Dec 13 2011 :  09:49:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Trying, I've been at this for quite a while, been through some blissful highs, and am now in a whole new wave of purification, stemming from renewed commitment to nonjudgmental witnessing of my thoughts/emotions. All I've been thinking for weeks now is "oh wow, is this what I'm REALLY like?!? What a scum I am!!" It's hard not to get discouraged when we start seeing ourselves as we really are - human :)

As you've grasped, one of the main keys to liberation is forgiveness, of self and others. Another biggie is gratitude - cultivation of this is absolutely a pathway to bliss. Simple, but not easy, like everything else on the road upward ;)

And yes, stick with your daily practice - persistence is another big biggie, this is a life(s)long marathon, not a sprint :)
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Trying

USA
12 Posts

Posted - Dec 13 2011 :  7:04:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all. I'm working on forgiveness. I certainly understand that I've just begun and your comments to me are the same I used to give to my Tai Chi and Bagua students. It's often easier to point to the path than walk on it.

I will persist as I know all this crap coming up is, for the most part, the crap I put in. It's not just the polishing the mirror part, but having the courage to actually look at your reflection. I'd hoped

I was more handsome than this.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Dec 13 2011 :  7:59:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
There is no need to get involved with the stories that may come up. What is important is watching and being aware of how it makes you feel, both physically and mentally. I was so glad to learn that I don't have to re-live all that garbage again.
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Trying

USA
12 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  06:01:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Looking forward to that day, my friend.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  07:46:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not in the future; when you are reminded of what a jerk you have been in the past, pay attention to the feelings, not the story.
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Kahlia

161 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  08:37:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The only way out is through ( as I am constantly reminded). Keep going... the tears and the pain are a sign of renewal and healing and that it is working.

"Nothing that happened before this moment has any power over you whatsoever, except to the extent to which you carry it into this moment. Dwell in the present with full forgiveness of yourself and others, and your life will be lifted to divine right order...perfection, prosperity and peace."

"All the love in your past -- the love you gave others and the love others gave you-- was real and cannot be threatened. It is eternally yours. On the contrary, any lovelessness in your past was unreal and therefore does not exist. It has no permanent effect except that which you give it." Quotes I have been meditating on lately..i forget who they are by ....
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Shanti

USA
4842 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  08:38:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Trying,

Welcome to the AYP forums.

When you stop chasing bliss, bliss will chase you.

Have you read "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie? If not try it.

Here is something I had written a while back about forgiving... it was about forgiving others, but the same holds true about forgiving ourselves...


http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=2658#23424
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti


Forgiveness IMO is a very egoic word.. when I say I forgive you.. my ego is happy.. "I am above you.. that even though you hurt me.. I am better than you and I will pardon your misgivings".. Or when I say.. "I can never forgive you".. my ego is again sitting there with pride.. "I am above you.. and you cannot get away with treating me the way you did"... So in both cases.. forgive or not forgive is very ego driven. The real release will come when you are at a place (that can be reached with meditation and self inquiry) from where you look at the situation and say.. "There really is nothing to forgive or not forgive. It is what it is."

With Yoga and self inquiry.. you come to realize.. that karma is going to unfold.. it is upto us how we want to live through it. We can resist and hold on to our illusions of control.. or let go and accept things as they come. We learn to see a situation .. and accept it and move on.. or cling onto it and suffer. Any situation.. good or bad, that comes our way, when accepted from a central/neutral place.. where .. you don't have to love it (if it is not a good situation).. and yet you don't have to hate it. It is just there.. it is what it is.. and it is your choice to accept and let go.. or resist and let the negative feelings build.

Yoga will not change the world.. that is not what it is there for (although it may.. not sure..).. but it will change YOU.. your perspectives on life.. the way you see the world.. And now I am going to say the words you really dislike (sorry!!).. "Everything is perfect as it is"... How? Because it "is".. Reality of all the bad in the world is just "there".. and like I said.. yoga will teach you to be at a place where you don't have to love it.. and yet don't have to hate it.. be centered.. and from this place.. where you look at things without either extreme feelings attached.. you can take action and do things that are not affected by attachment or aversion.

So how does it fit into forgiveness.. or lack of.. well.. when you can see what happened between your brother and mother.. for what it is.. something between your brother and mother.. you can free yourself of the guilt that you should have been able to change the situation or she should have handled the situation differently.... Your mother is living through her karma.. your brother lived through his.. you are living your own.. and you have a choice of accepting it and moving on.. or clinging onto it and hoping and wishing you could have somehow changed things so your mother could have shown more love and care.. Remember, it is not our job to change anyone else.. we do have the choice of introducing people to the tools.. but it is their choice what they want to do with it.. Our responsibility is towards improving ourselves.. and when we are centered.. we will automatically be making decisions that will help others around us.

Not sure if this helps at all. But this has helped me a lot.. There were times I have said I forgive so-and-so.. but I realized.. every time I thought of all the wrongs that happened.. it still got back feelings of hate, sorrow, hurt, "why me?".. Well then, that was not forgiveness.. till I came to a point when I realized everyone is doing the best they can with their life, including me.. and the situation is what it is.. and I have a choice of opening, accepting, letting go and moving on.. or clinging on.. I chose the first.. wasn't easy.. but once you "get it" .... there is no turning back.. it becomes second nature.. (Try it with small things that annoy you at first..)

PS: This in no way means you sit and let the world abuse you and walk all over you.. You still take action.. but when you do it without attachment or aversion.. you just make decisions from your inner silence... and your silence always knows .. it's just a matter of staying centered.. and trusting this truth that comes up, accepting and letting go. Inner silence can be a deadly weapon.. when you learn how to use it... or better still.. let go and let it(inner silence) do it's thing :).



We have all done thing in the past we wish we had done differently... but it is the past you know. Most blocks in our system are memories... and when we release the memory, we release a lot of energy that is being used to keep the block in place... releasing this will help us heal and will give us more access to the bliss. Things happen and at this point all we can do is accept it and move on. Living in the past, calling yourself a A'hole and the 3rd derivative of position is not really going to help. Right this min, are you being any of those or are you reliving that from a memory... if its a memory, you can let it go.
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Kahlia

161 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  09:21:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The moment you accept what troubles you've been given,
the door will open.
Rumi #9829;

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Trying

USA
12 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  5:22:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, my friends, for your wise words. I am, as my moniker indicates, still...

Trying
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karl

United Kingdom
1812 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  6:58:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
No need to remove the memory, just unhitch the attached emotion. The memory is useful because it is part of learning. The negative emotions don't enhance that. They are more useful if they are positive, otherwise you may as well discard them as they just stop progress. Negatives include, guilt, anger, sadness?

Quick thing to do is to bring up the exact image that comes up in your head when you get those negative feelings. You will know the strongest one.

You can do this in a number of ways, whichever is best, or in combination. Bring up the memory, is it colour or black and white, is it still or moving? Is it close to you or far away? Is there sounds associated with it, or is it silent?

Think of it like a video editor, turn the colour up and down and see if you feel the emotions more strongly or less? Turn it to black and white? Are you looking through your own eyes,mor at the picture ?

Move it nearer and further away, turn down the sound or put in your own favourite sound. If its in motion speed it up like a comedy, or slow it right down, even freeze it in a statue like comedy stance. Move out of the picture if you are looking through your own eyes Just monitor and adjust each control until the emotion gets less.

Finally go into the picture in its less emotional state. Try and see how you might notice the emotions are attached like a thin skin over the scene. At the bottom of the picture, Right in the bottom corner add a small hook. Rip off the skin of emotion and hang it on the hook outside the picture. Come out of the picture and see how that goes.


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Divineis

Canada
420 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  7:30:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Your trying, that's what counts my friend :). So many people don't even put in the littlest of efforts to try. You can think of EGO (dun dun dun duuhhh) as seperation. Like ego and such keeps you from seeing things clearly. Good or bad ego (even though I am fludging awesome :-D hehehe). Try seeing your problems without bringing up a duality, dont even think duality, just see it through to its end.

They say ego is its own reward (even the feel bad kind). try noticeing that in yourself, you feel good when you compare yourself to others, or bad... it's all just ego, instead, as I like to say "Cut away the ten thousand things(duality), leaving just one (one pointed seeing a problem through to its end). It takes a little practice, but once you get it, you'll see god is even in the lowliest of problems, or in zen buddhist terms, "you gotta lift yourself with the ground to get off the ground (after falling)". Or again, in buddhism "within the seed of suffering is the seed for the dissolution of suffering".
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2011 :  8:33:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Karl,
is that like Bandler and Grinder "Re-Framing"?
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karl

United Kingdom
1812 Posts

Posted - Dec 15 2011 :  03:40:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish

Karl,
is that like Bandler and Grinder "Re-Framing"?



It's not exactly reframing, maybe a tiny bit, it's adjusting the sub modalities, and the final part is a mixture of Time Line Therapy and Swish pattern, not as effective but can be attempted with reasonable success without the aid of a practitioner. It's better for phobias, because they are specific. Often trauma and other more complex negative patterns have multiple connections, however 'Trying' seems to have a specific thing which he is repeating which is not unlike a phobia, so this might just get rid of the heavy duty stuff. Not unlike clearing the blockages using Pranayama.

Reframing is difficult to do without face to face contact as it is conversational therapy and requires extensive rapport to be built as it can get quite heated. Had some success constructing elegant reframes over the Internet, but without feedback and calibration it's impossible to see if it is having a positive effect.

Just for your interest (if you haven't gone to sleep by now). Timeline therapy is very similar to Pranayama, meditation and I suppose, astral travel with some conversational reframing and linguistics. Works very well. Probably 90% of people have instant benefit. The calibration is very important as the success is not really in their replies, much more in how the entire body has changed. Some of them look so different that I wish I had taken a before and after photo, it's as if their image has changed in a fundamental way. Hard to explain that.

You can try the sub modality adjustment yourself. Get a picture of something you like up on your imaginary screen, notice where it is and what size. Do the same with something you really dislike. It works much better with people that Objects. Swap the two images over. Reverse all the differences of each picture. Often with strong dislikes/likes of people there is lots of internal resistance to the move and they pop back to there previous places.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Dec 15 2011 :  07:08:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Karl, interesting.
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karl

United Kingdom
1812 Posts

Posted - Dec 15 2011 :  07:39:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish

Thanks Karl, interesting.




Zzzzzzzzzzz
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Leo17

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2011 :  8:49:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Karl,
Thanks for sharing those techniques. I just tried the fish hook one and it worked quite well. :)
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cosmic

USA
821 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2011 :  11:32:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trying

Again, when does the bliss start?


Everyone is different, so nobody can say for sure. But with dedicated (i.e. daily) practice, bliss will come at some point.

I don't get tons of the bliss/ecstasy/flashy experiences that others have reported, but there is a very stable peace and happiness that surpasses all that, IMO.

If you keep practicing over the long run, you will see your life transformed in a very positive way. Best wishes to you!

Love
cosmic
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karl

United Kingdom
1812 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2011 :  11:56:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Leo17

Karl,
Thanks for sharing those techniques. I just tried the fish hook one and it worked quite well. :)



Good one.
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Trying

USA
12 Posts

Posted - Dec 17 2011 :  07:54:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks cosmic,
A sense of sustainable peace and happiness sounds good right about now.
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delta33

Canada
100 Posts

Posted - Dec 19 2011 :  10:11:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit delta33's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trying

I've done some other stuff but have been doing AYP for a couple of months now. When does the bliss start? I'm still dealing with the breakup of my marriage 8 months ago and so far the practices are just reminding me what a jerk I've been in the past. I haven't forgotten and I'm trying to forgive myself for that.
At least hypnosis made me feel better. Again, when does the bliss start?



sorry to hear you're going through a hard time right now.

with a marriage breakdown, it helps to remember that it takes two to tango.. this isn't completely your fault you know. yes, you can learn from it, but you are pretty awesome in your own ways too.. allow yourself to dwell your positive traits.

the bliss is right now.. when you let go of feeling bad and sit up a little straighter you might feel a shivering shudder as that stagnant energy is released into divine flow.. just keep meditating and you'll get there soon enough.

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Jokaji

USA
4 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2012 :  6:49:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Trying

Thank you, my friends, for your wise words. I am, as my moniker indicates, still...

Trying



Hello Trying, I humbly ask permission to advise-

Stop trying. Maybe a different approach is needed-

Just sit. Do not focus on anything. Simply become aware of whatever seems most prominent in your field of awareness.

Observe all phenomenon rising and falling. Be a people watcher, no prejudice or requirement- just watching.

Except that by people I mean thoughts, sensations, feelings....and then it will become more natural to "do" or "try" techniques.

Hope this helps: )

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goinghome

Sweden
6 Posts

Posted - May 21 2012 :  7:51:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi

I am a jerk to say that bliss will never come. It is a false statement that we are blissed or not blissed... You were born in bliss. The rest is life.
Goinghome
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1178 Posts

Posted - May 22 2012 :  05:18:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Trying,

I will throw in another aspect and ask you - How's your bhakti? Intense? Strong? Weak? Just doing the routine?


A lot depends on bhakti.


Sey




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