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 Yamas & Niyamas - Restraints & Observances
 Fasting Part 2...
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Frank-in-SanDiego

USA
363 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2006 :  7:53:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Frank-in-SanDiego's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hari Om
~~~~~~~~
Fasting (called Anasakyana), is also a practice of control - this is the part I like but not good at it. Anyone with ideas on how to get better at it, I am all ears. How does one get good at it? I guess practice,eh? Tips to get better Control?

A few additional concepts below and hense my interest.
I understand that fasting is a good 'cleaner-outer' , but the control part has some benefits. Here's a few I am aware of:

It's said that contol, or self -control specifically brings all the fruits/benfits/results of the following.
Brahmachara - 'chara' is conduct , and Brahman as we know is Fullness, wholeness of Being, the Bhuma ( or Full plenum of all seen and unseen). Hence, bramachara is continence and is the 'conduct' of Brahman.

Vedic rituals, called Yajya - these can be called Sattrayana. Sattra is yajya ( pronounced Yagg-yaa), and sat is Truth or Being;
Trayana is the way [ 'ayana' is a presession; 'a-yana' is eternal, without ending ] or attainment of freedom - so one free's oneself by the contact with Sat or Being/Truth; Though these Yajya, one gains this benefit; yet self-control is equal to this and gives the same benefits.

Observance of silence, maunam - is self control, and one controls speech, and one gains the same benefits of brahmachara;

Anasakyana, or fasting - control of the senses is equivalent to brahmachara and gives the same results i.e one gains merely by
self-control.

Transcending the mind/thoughts and the relative field - is yajya , and is therefore equal to brahmachara; One 'gives up' the relative fieldof existence, per se, and left with the Wholeness of SELF. One gains benefits of bramachara.

It is though this self-control that one gains samprasada, or the composure of consciousness…. Boy, I really like that notion, eh? Composure, Lovely!

Any thoughts or ideas are welcomed





agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego

Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 06 2007 12:36:45 AM

Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2006 :  12:02:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Food for thought:

The power of fasting is remarkable. It not only clears my channels and clears my head, it just makes feel feel better and freer and I think that helps out my life in a number of ways. Now after about 2 weeks, I have the 'control' to fast 20 hours a day every day. No biggie. It's not so much control as just getting used to it and developing confidence that the body has inherited mechanisms to deal with skipping a meal here and there and then realizing that fasting is the key to more positive life experiences. I hadn't realized what a drag it is to be eating all the time. I see in retrospect that it is actually depressing, and that I really wasn't actually hungry anyways. More of a habit thing.

I'd say experiment with water fasting on a day off that is totally stress free, where you can be a little spacey and it's okay. And just go as long as you can without serious discomfort. Maybe little headaches might come and go, feelings of light headedness, etc. Just let them pass.

When I decided to do that, I definitely needed to do it on a day off. But once I got through it and experienced the many yogic benefits of it esp in meditation, the practice really caught my attention. Gradually, the spaciness and discomfort has disappeared. Now I feel pleasantly hungry around mid afternoon and I have a nice big dinner that I really enjoy, as I'm actually hungry for a change. Another thing I learned on the nutrition forum of dragondoor.com searching "warrior diet" is that regular fasting really revs your sexual hormones... so eventually all that spaciness and insecurity about the practice gets replaced by positive feelings... Meow! Did I mention that it actually measurably reverses age related DNA damage in 6 months? (Well, "calorie restriction" does in humans, but regular fasting is the no brain-er way to do that.) One dragondoor guy is dead lifting 575lbs at 197lbs body weight and eating just once a day, so it doesn't wimp you out or anything.

I'm a cusp Gemini born in the year of the monkey, so I'm good at switching gears in general and I've had past experience of fasting that came back to me recently, so I think I'm making the transition very quickly. On dragondoor, they most often councel people seeking to eat once a day to get there by gradually--over the course of many weeks--push breakfast back until it becomes lunch and then do the same for lunch. Obviously, if one has health problems ask your dr. and all that.

Just read my infomercials a few times, and you'll throw down your nose bag in disgust. Your prana will thank you.

I'd say go to the library and online and read all the happy stories about fasting until you get excited about it. Soak yourself in those thoughts and you'll naturally figure out the rest.

From Paul Bragg's book: "fasting is easier than any diet, fasting is compatible to a busy life (perfect for the busy householder, saves over an hour a day!), fasting gives the body a rest, fasting is used to treat many sicknesses, fasting lowers cholesterol and blood pressure, fasting is calming and soothing, fasting often induces euphoria, fasting slows the aging process, fasting is an energizer, fasting results in a more vigorous sex life (told ya) fasting can eliminate addictions, fasting rids the body of toxins, fasting is a rite in all religions, the Bible alone references it 74 times..." (paraphrased) "Fasting is the greatest remedy, the physician within." -Paracelcus

Bragg died at the age of 95--got smacked by a big wave while surfing! Good stuff. The Bragg program is to skip breakfast and to total fast one day per week.

It's the bliss you want, more than the control imo.

One kidney doctor (author of the QOD Diet) suggests taking some sodium and potassium during a fast. He says that the American diet is really rich in sodium and so the kidneys are very used to dumping out all the sodium in the blood. When you fast, the kidneys keep doing this out of habit and so soon you don't have enough sodium (or water) floating around. He seems to imply that is why people commonly have headaches and spaciness starting out with fasting. I've not tried it, but worth knowing about. He's a kidney dr, after all. Paul Bragg would disagree with the above. He says getting all that extra salt out of the system is the object and slight headaches are just a part of the purification process. I love him, but he ain't no scientist. I'm not sure who's right on this issue.

Dr. Fuhrman's book on Fasting is decent. I've got "Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat" on order about the science of eating once a day for athletic benefits. I'll report on it.

-Yoda
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Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2006 :  10:49:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yoda,
quote:
Did I mention that it actually measurably reverses age related DNA damage in 6 months? (Well, "calorie restriction" does in humans, but regular fasting is the no brain-er way to do that.)


I've read a little of this, how long does one need to fast and how often (once a week etc.?) in order to accrue this benefit?

May the force be with you,

A

Edited by - Anthem on Apr 11 2006 10:54:19 AM
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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2006 :  2:29:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Anthem,

Thanks about the force!

The article was in last week's local newspaper and also in the Wall Street Journal and I'm sure you can find it in health news sources online. It was a 6 month long study and the best results were obtained in the group that ate the fewest calories.

Um, the one crucial detail that I didn't divulge--because it sort of kills my pontification buzz--is that the low calorie group at 890 calories a day which is pretty much out of the question for everyone.

Who wants to live an extra 40 years of suffering anyways?

So there you have it.

But still, I'd imagine that whatever degree of calorie restriction one can comfortably stomach, to that degree your health and meditative practice will thank you. Daily fasting is simple, easy, and timesaving and does translate to some calorie reduction indirectly. So I can do that.

-Yoda
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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2006 :  3:59:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey, here's a link to the study in USA Today. In this write up, it says that even most calorie restriction decreased age related DNA damage in 6 months. Maybe the writeup I read said that the biggest result was in the extreme group. I'm glad that it works even in moderation. That's more my speed.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/scienc...gevity_x.htm
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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2006 :  4:02:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's another link:

http://www.nutraingredients.com/new...-weight-loss
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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2006 :  8:29:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Small fasting forum by the kidney doctor mentioned above. Nice to have an MD on staff!

http://www.eatqod.com/forum/index.php

There's a link in one of the general posts to a fasting yahoogroups that might be interesting as well.
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Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2006 :  10:31:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for the links!
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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2006 :  09:43:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Another approach is to do a fruit-fast --- grapes are a good fruit for the purpose.

Either fruit-fasting as a final practice, or as a practice to get you used to a more complete fast.

Inspired partly by Sparkle's post, I decided to give a grape fast a shot. I'm on my second day so far. So far I have to say that I find it MUCH easier than a full fast. You know- when you are hungry, you just have some grapes. MUCH easier for me than having nothing.

And I hear it get's easier still after two days!

There may be something to the MD's sodium-rebound theory -- thanks for the tip, Yoda. I've decided to add a little salt to my water-and-grapes fast. I'm guided by the fact that I have some experiences now of spaciness and very mild muscle pain that I had in the past when I drank too much water without any salt. Maybe later, in and when my body gets more 'used' to fasting, there will not be a rebound effect, and I won't need to take the salt.

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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2006 :  10:08:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't tried taking any salt or minerals. So it helps?
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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2006 :  10:29:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
If you are into juice or grape fasting, check out the master cleanse fasting link in yellow on: http://www.eatalgaetoday.com/#

Another interesting option I found while searching through the fasting yahoogroups.com.

Perhaps the juices provide a bit of minerals to help the kidneys. The movie "Gandhi" seemed to imply that Gandhi would drink some lemon juice on his fasts.

The Bragg method has you drinking some apple cider vinegar throughout the day which may be analogous. I've heard that lemon juice and AC vinegar have similar positive effects on the digestive system. Maybe just a spot of minerals plus the bitter taste plus the acidity all work together. I went into a health food store that I've gone to for years and picked up a bottle of Bragg AC Vinegar and the owner went on and on about it as being one of the best things he sells and that he's taken it for years. (I've bought a lot of concoctions in that place and he's never praised anything like that cheap bottle of vinegar!)

Also, the MD dude suggests experimenting with potassium, magnesium, and calcium along with the sodium if fasting is to be a regular thing (like his alternative day eating plan). (The thought of taking a pill while I'm fasting is personally repellent to me, so I'm not sure I'd go for that but maybe a bit of half salt half potassium mixed in water might not hurt) I'll pass on this for the moment, though.



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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2006 :  11:26:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
David, do keep us updated on how your grapes fast goes. I would really be interested in trying it out. I was thinking around May 1st week. Also.. I agree with Yoda on the lemon juice thing.. when I do fast.. having a glass of fresh lemonade minus the sugar does seem to help me. So instead of just plain salt water.. add the juice of half a lemon to it.
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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2006 :  2:11:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
This evening, I'll be wrapping up another 48 hour water and vinegar fast. It feels like it removes blocks in my channels and it seems to smooth things out in my external surroundings too.

With that in mind, I knew I had a couple of tricky little tasks in front of me so I decided face these little challenges while fasting.

Extremely successful test run, I must say.

With that, I've gestalted from seeing fasting as something I do when under zero stress to being a secret weapon to deal with anything.

It makes me feel good, so I don't feel that the physical dimension is problematic. Great for iaming too. Those two things combine to really be of assistance for anything.

I'd actually take it one more day (why leave a party before the cops come???) but I've got a nice invite to a yummy Indian cooked dinner. I'll bring my appetite!

-Yoda
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Sparkle

Ireland
1457 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2006 :  3:52:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sparkle's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
David, great to read your doing the grape and water fast. Please keep us posted and keep saying the rosary

Yoda, congrats on your 48 hour fast and thanks for all the info.

With all this talk of fasting my own diet has improved, although at the moment it needs it badly.
Am looking at buying a juicer, any thoughts on this.

Louis
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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2006 :  6:14:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Sparkle. Yes, and 10 grapes in the hand is perfect for a decade of the rosary, eating one for each count.

Yoda asked, does the salt help? I think so. I think I know the feeling of being short of salt in the body -- ( It happened when I drank too much pure water before as I was saying. Athletes, who have to drink a lot, are aware of it, which is why they drink drinks with salt in them ) -- and I think I have less of that feeling this evening than this morning.

I also liked the salt. I took it in about half a cup of warm water, which was as salty as a fairly salty soup.

Salt soup. Mmmmmm.

I'll keep you all posted.

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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2006 :  2:39:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
David,

On your inspiration, I was about to make Knorr tea when I realized it was full of msg. I don't have a problem with the stuff, but there's such a fuss over it I'll just steer clear for the sake of simplicity.

Instead, I poured myself some tomato juice and swigged it down. It was extremely yummy! So I'll experiment. The kidney doc suggests V8, but I don't have any and don't like it as much anyways.

The kidney doc suggested that if regular fasting is to become a longterm thing for someone, that they take supplements including calcium, magnesium, zinc, and potassium. Soy milk and No Salt is the source of potassium btw. (nb: don't overdo potassium, they say it's dangerous)

I'm excited that there are fellow test pilots around here!

-Yoda
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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2006 :  4:45:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It's day 3 of my grape diet. I'm finding it very nice. I'm quite energetic, more energetic than usual, and my concentration is better than usual. There really isn't any food craving now, except I can feel that if I daydreamed about food for a while, I could get quite appetized!

Hmmm, V8 sounds like a good idea. I always disliked it because I thought it too salty, but that could be a positive now.... There is also 'pure vegetable stock' that you can get at wholefoods and other places....

I won't bother with lemon-juice and vinegar -- the common denominator there seems to be acid, and I have fairly tart grapes.

Yaaaaaay, grape-fasting is fun!

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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2006 :  6:26:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Great news! I'll try it too at some point. Try tomato juice instead of V8. Let me know if it improves asanas, spinal breathing, iaming, tantra, etc.
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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2006 :  09:50:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It is definitely improving my meditation. It so happens that it is happening in a rather busy period and I haven't had time to do asanas or other things yet...
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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2006 :  11:11:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
So I overdid the vinegar... my teeth are becoming sensitized to the acid. I'll switch to Swedish Bitters and then I'll try other non-acid bitters. I do think that the taste does rev the digestive action and is a positive thing.

David, I'm glad that it deepens meditation. I find that I can feel my body's meridians and channels flowing all the time when I'm fasting. I'm of the impression that this increased flow really does a number to open up emotional/energetic knots in the system and perhaps that's why it's useful for stressful situations--I don't get hung up on a particular thought or feeling. So I think it has applications to the pranayama side of the equation as well.

This really is the ultimate American householder practice--don't have time to eat then just don't eat! It's a blast to find something with such a bang for the buck!

-Yoda

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NagoyaSea

424 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2006 :  11:26:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoda,

You said:
"I find that I can feel my body's meridians and channels flowing all the time when I'm fasting."

This made me wonder. When I am still, I feel vibration/energy/humming at any place in my body that I place my attention...in fact all through my being...

Is this what you mean when you say you feel the channels flowing? Like so??

In Light and Love,
Kathy
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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2006 :  12:46:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoda says:
Try tomato juice instead of V8. Let me know if it improves asanas, spinal breathing, iaming, tantra, etc.


I have bought V8 and tomato juice. I like the V8 -- have you tried it hot, like a soup?

V8 seems just the thing.

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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2006 :  1:56:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Don't know if you like garlic.. but add some fresh crushed garlic to a cup of hot V8.. mmm mmm good!
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Sparkle

Ireland
1457 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2006 :  2:08:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sparkle's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
With David on this grape fast, I decided to give it a go myself. Its about 10 years since the last one. My system feels like it could do with a good clearout.
Almost finished the first 24 hours and going well.

Thanks David for giving me the impetus

Louis
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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2006 :  2:31:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
LOL! Well, that's what I'm here for!
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Yoda

USA
284 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2006 :  7:43:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yoda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I'll get some V8 at some point.


Here's a related article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...12_1,00.html
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