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Inspired
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 01 2015 : 09:21:09 AM
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Hi all,
Now into my 4th week of DM. I'm finding that while meditating my mind is starting to relax and quieten down, but the very action of continuously repeating the mantra seems to awaken me slightly and bring me a little out of the relaxed state. Where as if I just breathe out slowly and let my mind focus on the breath without having to think about repeating the mantra, my mind seems to be in a much closer state to being "still" and "empty".
In other words, the action of repeating the mantra now seems un-quieten the mind. Clearly, there is something I am not doing correctly. Any ideas how I can correct this? |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2015 : 09:59:51 AM
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| In the early stage, everything seems "clunky". Breath meditation is indeed easier but also will not take you deeper and so the process of purification will take longer. I recommend sticking to "easily favoring the mantra" and giving the process a chance to smoothen out. It will, for sure! |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2015 : 10:16:59 AM
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Well, the goal is not to continuously repeat the mantra, but rather to easily favor it when we realize we are off it. Note: we don't "forcefully" favor; we easily favor. It's a significant difference.
Using the breath as an object to be easily favored is a milder form of meditation, and if that's working for you, that is great. However, what you describe is kind of in between. If repeating the mantra feels difficult and outside the scope of easily favoring, then there is no need to do it until it feels easy. You just rest with whatever the minds feels at ease with, including attention on the breath, but it also could be any thought-stream, physical sensation, or other internal/external phenomenon. When it feels easy, you return to the mantra. That's how the mantra gets refined, which is the whole point. By refining the mantra, we create a groove and merge the sound with stillness.
Easily favoring the mantra is a housecleaning, and a kind of dredging, so much of the subconscious mind will be brought to waking awareness. For this reason, it's totally fine and natural to have lots of thoughts. By giving the thoughts a little space, and sweeping through them with the mantra, inner silence is cultivated permanently. On this note, the real test of Deep Meditation is found outside the practice session during daily activity. If inner silence is more present during your movement through life, that's how you know it's working (not necessarily how quiet the meditation itself is).
So don't try to continuously repeat the mantra in an aggressive way. Just come back to it when it feels easy. That's easily favoring.  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2015 : 10:20:40 AM
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Sorry, cross-posted with Dogboy. As I was drafting my wordy, drawn-out explanation, he was keeping it short and sweet, as it should be!  |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2015 : 10:58:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Inspired
Hi all,
Now into my 4th week of DM. I'm finding that while meditating my mind is starting to relax and quieten down, but the very action of continuously repeating the mantra seems to awaken me slightly and bring me a little out of the relaxed state. Where as if I just breathe out slowly and let my mind focus on the breath without having to think about repeating the mantra, my mind seems to be in a much closer state to being "still" and "empty".
In other words, the action of repeating the mantra now seems un-quieten the mind. Clearly, there is something I am not doing correctly. Any ideas how I can correct this?
Hi Inspired,
Luckily, you are not doing anything wrong other than perhaps having some expectations of how you should be experiencing your meditation sessions. If you are following the procedure of easily repeating the mantra and then gently coming back to it when you realize you are off of it then you are doing it right. How you experience each session will change depending on the session, the phase of purification you are in and many other factors.
Trying to do DM so that you experience "stillness" or "emptiness" is most likely going to be an exercise in frustration. As is often said here at the forums, how we feel *outside* of meditation is a much better indicator of the fruits of DM than how we feel during our meditation practice. So continue to do your practices, try to recognize when you are placing expectations on yourself to feel a specific way, and reap the rewards during daily activity. 
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Aug 01 2015 11:17:17 AM |
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alecpeace
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2015 : 10:59:46 AM
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Inspired,
I remember listening to one of Yogis radio interviews where he said beginners usually try to do a hard pronunciation of the mantra through the entire DM session, like "if the mantra was a nail, and you're like the hammer hitting it hard over and over", lol. Thats exactly what I noticed myself doing.
Repeat the mantra, back-to-back, at a natural tempo (not artificial and imposed). The mantra will sooner, rather than later begin to dissolve into stillness where it won't really be a very clear mantra anymore, just a sort of "idea" in the mind, like a subtle vibration, but don't TRY to make that happen, just let it be as it may, naturally it will get there.
It's kind of like somebody slowly, gradually turning down the volume on the tv, one bar at a time. After a time you'll notice that you started at 30 and now 15 minutes into DM you're at 5, for example. On my first day of DM, I remember starting out at volume 30, and mantra wanting to go down and down in volume, but I wanted a clear, loud pronunciation, so it felt like walking in mud, I was going against the stream by trying to bring the volume back up after losing the mantra to some random thought stream that pops up. So I would pick up the mantra again at volume 30, whereas I lost the mantra at volume 15.
Bodhi, also used another example of dropping a sugar cube into a glass of water and seeing it slowly dissolve. sugar cube=mantra, water=mind, after a while the two merge into one=stillness. A natural reaction, no doing, it just happens, unless of course you continue to beat the mantra with a hammer and the mantra keeps wanting to dissolve, but you created a "safety-net mental construct" that just prevents the mantra from falling deeper and deeper. After you lose the mantra to a random thought-stream that may pop up and take over your mind, you try to pick up the mantra, but it's no longer a full sugar cube is it?, it is what it was when you last saw it and that's where you pick it up again. Trying to fight this won't work.
Also, are you just doing DM at this point with no SBP? if so, I can recommend just sitting for 5 minutes and doing nothing before DM (already in your meditation position), close your eyes and let the thought-stream burn out somewhat.
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Edited by - alecpeace on Aug 01 2015 11:58:52 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2015 : 1:27:48 PM
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| Well said, alecpeace. You touch upon some fine points. |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2015 : 3:51:40 PM
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quote:
In other words, the action of repeating the mantra now seems un-quieten the mind. Clearly, there is something I am not doing correctly. Any ideas how I can correct this?
Hi Inspired, IMO you expect to have/feel some specific experience during DM. This is not good. Forget your expectations. Just do the practice according to the lessons, gently favoring the mantra. And judge the quality of your practice by the results during daily activity (for me, it is more equanimity and less irritability), not by the experiences you may or may not have during DM. |
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Inspired
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2015 : 3:50:17 PM
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| Thanks all, appreciate all your responses. I guess I was expecting the actual meditation experience to improve and felt that if my mind is still active, the meditation itself will not be as effective. I will keep containing now trying to "easily favour the mantra". Easier said that done! |
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Jose
Spain
40 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2015 : 07:37:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Well said, alecpeace. You touch upon some fine points.
He did, thank you for that |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
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Mantra distracting me from clearing the mind
