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psysaucer
India
44 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 07:52:26 AM
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Maybe this question is coming out of frustration...but like everything else in this world, spiritual practices are bound to have their own flaws and limits. Yes, they can trigger intense life experiences and enrich the quality of one's life by a remarkable degree and maybe make someone live their entire life in the grip of bliss and beatitude I don't know.
But if the thing that you are obsessed with is 'truth'(whatever that may mean, if there is any such thing at all), if the big question for you is "what is this all about?", then why even bother doing this spiritual stuff.
I don't mean to dismiss the fact that there may be something immensely important about meditative and yogic practices, but after almost 15 years of practicing meditation and after having reaped at least some of its supposed fruits....all I am left with is absolute frustration. Not that I am depressed or in an existential crisis- none of that. But it feels like all the people who taught me to do this and promised eternal truth, the formless brahman and what not were just looking out for kicks, messing with their bodies so they could make themselves get stoned without drugs and call that samadhi or whatever.
Even the Upanishads tell that the Ultimate has finally got nothing to do with spiritual practices. That the leap from the form to formless can never be brought forth by any living being. So why bother?
If all you are looking for is some inner peace and (forgive me) getting naturally stoned, alright. But isn't it true that whatever you may experience as a result of meditation and yoga is as closer to realizing the truth as a drug induced experience is?
The aptly overlooked Indian thinker, UG Krishnamurti puts it better than anyone ever could
UG: What you do or do not do does not matter at all. Your practice of holiness, your practice of virtue -- that is socially valuable for the society, but that has nothing to do with this.
Q: Of course we are living in society; but as far as this goes -- enlightenment, realization or whatever you call it....
UG: Whatever name you use -- it is your word.
Q: ....it has nothing to do with it?
UG: It has absolutely nothing to do with it. Why, I sometimes go to the limit of saying that it is possible for a rapist, for a murderer, for a thief, for a convict, for a con-man -- this kind of thing can happen!
Is there anyone you guys know personally or on this forum(fat chance I know) who believe they got enlightened through spiritual practices. If you do, nothing would be more of a consolation for me than that to keep continuing my practices |
Edited by - psysaucer on Jul 22 2015 08:13:33 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 08:17:02 AM
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Hi psysaucer
IMHO, your next step may be to learn to surrender.
From time to time somebody comes up on this forum with the affirmation: "I've arrived/ I'm enlightened now, let me tell you all about it." And every time we found out there was something gone terribly wrong with those people's journeys. One can only hope there was a very temporary stage they were going through.
You know, if you were to put Jesus, Buddha and all other enlightened beings you heard of in one room and ask "Anyone enlightened here?", it is my belief no one will put their hands up. That's because enlightenment isn't just another achievement or attribute of the ego. It is a state of grace and a gift by definition - the moment you claim to possess it you lost it. The humble and the meek are allowed in the Kingdom of Heaven i.e. those ego-less ones who will claim no achievements of any kind.
Clear proof that state of grace cannot be taken for granted: Jesus on the cross, lamenting "why hast thou forsaken me?" - that was a very unenlightened moment even Jesus had. In that moment he had lost the Oneness. So you see, not even Him can claim to have got enlightenment as an irreversible quality or achievement. |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Jul 22 2015 08:23:56 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 08:20:00 AM
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| And yes, spirituality has its own limitations. I am going to repeat myself (apologies to those who have read this before) - there is a quote from Leonard Cohen that I remember often: "There is a crack in everything / That's how the light gets in" |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Jul 22 2015 08:21:18 AM |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 08:37:21 AM
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What are your practices?
Concerning getting naturally stoned there are are many practices that I am convinced as you are that are good for this but not much else; that is until, until the person practicing them are ripe.
Like a drug what is happening is awareness is temporarily going where you are not yet fully equipped to operate, so bravo for seeing through that.
Unlike a drug however awareness grows into the ability to operate, the drug usually just winds up burning out the nervous system of the person taking it.
Unlike a drug these methods that take you where you are not yet ready will cause what AYP terms as overloads and you will have to stop or scale back. Think of natures way of throwing the circuit breaker on your neurobiology.
A drug however bypasses the circuit breaker and to continue the analogy has the power to fry your computer.
Most Crown Centric practices fall into this category, for many that are not ready, the people that teach these reap ongoing devotional benefit from the side effects as well.
That you see through that though means you are in trouble.
Witness is active, could take some time to grow into that.
Again what are your practices?
Concerning who got enlightened from practices:
Well like yourself have not met anyone personally, yet, but I have to tell you the more that is understood about AYP by practicing and communications with Yogani on the AYP Plus Site if he is not enlightened then he is pretty darn close to it.
Then again not being so myself how would I know anyway? Furthermore why should it matter? if you are not there already we may not have any way to communicate it.  |
Edited by - So-Hi on Jul 22 2015 09:02:52 AM |
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psysaucer
India
44 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 08:46:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
Hi psysaucer
IMHO, your next step may be to learn to surrender.
Thanks BlueRaincoat,
But surrender to what? I have heard people say this my whole life, but never understood it. Does it mean that I need to let go and take whatever life throws at me? Or that the 'inner peace' one finds in deep meditative states should be accepted at a non-verbal level and not be questioned?
If those are somewhat what you mean, I believe I may have already learned do those things, but it has ultimately taken me nowhere, not that it should take me anywhere. But my question still remains: If spiritual practices and "surrendering" hasn't taken me towards realizing the Ultimate, why should I bother continuing the practices and not go as far away as I could from spirituality? |
Edited by - psysaucer on Jul 22 2015 09:08:31 AM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 09:02:41 AM
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Hi Psysaucer:
If there is any proof of enlightenment, it is in the fact that an inherent peace coming from within us can be cultivated and suffering can gradually be eliminated, regardless of our physical circumstances and knee-jerk reactions to pain and discomfort. While we are chasing the enlightenment pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, if means we use bring those two simple qualities to abide, then all the rest is worth it. It is all about means, and persistent application over time. At various stages, and the end, the result is self-evident.
Having that perspective, I find the proclamations of the "do nothing" teachers of the world to be nihilistic, at least as it pertains to others. What their state was or is, who can say? It does not even matter. What matters is what we can do for ourselves. Ultimately, all of our doing in practices is a non-doing, but we cannot start there. The freedom of non-doing does not come to the non-doers. So keep walking. It is a paradox with predictable results.
All the best!
The guru is in you. 
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 10:03:56 AM
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One day I started with yoga, why?
There was a crack in me, the light came in, and I had to do something with it. Thanks BRC.
Yoga brings more and more light in my life, inside and out.
I feel lighter, warmer, more confident.
Most of all more loving.
It took time, times of frustrations, practice, surrender and let go.
My yoga practice became an anchor in life, I can not stop it anymore. Yoga became life, life became yoga.
I believe in Grace and practice.
Expectations give frustration. That is one of the lessons I have learned.
Enjoy practice
Edit: surrender and let go were not automatically there. I found them in a state of desperation.
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Edited by - Charliedog on Jul 22 2015 10:22:27 AM |
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Beehive
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 10:36:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi Psysaucer:
If there is any proof of enlightenment, it is in the fact that an inherent peace coming from within us can be cultivated and suffering can gradually be eliminated, regardless of our physical circumstances and knee-jerk reactions to pain and discomfort.
This quote from Yogani is exactly why I headed down the meditation path. I actually have a list of intentions I had when I started meditating and it surprises and thrills me when I look at it and find it is exactly what has been true in experience.
You said "the people who taught me to do this were just looking out for kicks..." but maybe it will help you if you try to discover what YOUR deep desires are from meditation/spiritual practice and evaluate it's relevance from that perspective.
All the same, I'm sorry you are in a frustration place. I never enjoy those times but they do usually bring a new level of peace or understanding when they pass so I will hope that will be the case for you. |
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dv2014
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 10:43:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by psysaucer
.. spiritual practices are bound to have their own flaws and limits.
...
UG: It has absolutely nothing to do with it. Why, I sometimes go to the limit of saying that it is possible for a rapist, for a murderer, for a thief, for a convict, for a con-man -- this kind of thing can happen!
[/i]
Hi psysaucer
I am pretty much a beginner in practices, but I thought I would speak from my ongoing reading of AYP lessons. I have had numerous questions about the relevance of spiritual practices and I was one of those skeptics, who never stop questioning!
If you have practiced for 15 years and feel frustrated, perhaps there may be something missing in those practices(?).One of the AYP lessons I found very informative in understanding the practices in general is: http://aypsite.org/43.html
Practices in my humble understanding are just practical tools to nudge your nervous system to more and more opening. They may have been discovered as our ancestors experimented with the body and the breathing - they may also have been dawned upon some mudras or bandhas as automatic yoga. That knowledge thankfully has been documented and preserved for future generations. So just like any technology they may have limits or errors. One set of practice may not fit all. What we read in books or what teachers say may have been contaminated also - but the good thing is that we have our nervous system which is naturally prone to opening and once we nudge it a little bit, it is likely to continue unfolding. In that way, we don't need to see practices as divine, falling out of the sky, but they are mere tried and tested tools. So I would say feel free to question the practices - but also please note that yoga has been surviving for thousands of years. The mere fact that it has stayed that long is a convincing evidence for me that there is something worth pursuing.
As for UG's saying, I like one of Yogananda's quotes "a saint is a sinner who never gave up". So, of course the murderers and rapists have a fair chance too:)
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Edited by - dv2014 on Jul 22 2015 11:18:09 AM |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 11:29:18 AM
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| Why bother? Could you know that there are people who have achieved liberation, and still sit around and be content with your life? I know I couldn't. Spiritual practices may or may not be a failure towards this goal, but do you have a better alternative? If you do think/feel that there is, then by all means try it out. The only other options are to immerse yourself in worldly life and forget about all this, or to roll over and die. I refuse to accept these kind of escapist choices. |
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psysaucer
India
44 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 11:36:30 AM
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Thanks for all the replies!
But i am not going to post another bunch of arguments proving my point as it seems like no amount of convincing is going to put me off my disillusionment and I'm just going to have to deal with it. Peace:-) |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2015 : 3:08:11 PM
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Of course your disillusionment has to be acknowledged.
Good luck dealing with it. I hope it opens a door for you very soon. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2015 : 04:44:04 AM
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Dear psysaucer,
I find there is a lot of talk here in the forum about practices, intense experiences, surrender and expectations - including myself - when will I finally be there?
At some level I realise that all of that is not spiritual growth. Spiritual growth /transformation is ultimately measured in service to others (whichever form it takes. It is measured in the quality of our daily interactions and relationships, in the outpour of divine Love and compassion, stillness in action. I am trying to focus on only that. That is enough. I don't need anything more.
The question you should ask is - are you in this for some sort of ultimate experience of Truth? or simply to love ThaT & others?
I started off with the former but now I am happy with the latter.
Sey
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Dogboy
USA
2195 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2015 : 06:24:37 AM
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| Practices began for me as a want for personal experiences, which I have received, and this selfish desire has turned itself inside out, now that I have the taste of selflessness. Now I sit for the opportunity of love, radiance, and unity. |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2015 : 11:45:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by psysaucer
Thanks for all the replies!
But i am not going to post another bunch of arguments proving my point as it seems like no amount of convincing is going to put me off my disillusionment and I'm just going to have to deal with it. Peace:-)
Hello Psysaucer
You bravely start a rather provocative discussion and immediately want to bail? Maybe, due to its controversial nature, the topic has enough momentum to carry on regardless, maybe not ..
I'd like to know how spirituality is defined (or what you're calling spirituality). You mention spirituality having limitations but the OP qualifies that to mean practices have their limitations: "...spiritual practices are bound to have their own flaws and limits." You go on to say how practices are merely a way of getting naturally stoned and imply no deeper merit, such as inner peace or silence. And there is some discussion about the authentically enlightened would never claim to be so. (To BRC. Pardon, I don't get this and it may not apply to the topic under discussion. How can the unenlightened being presume to know what the enlightened being would be or claim to be, or do or say or think? But we've been down that road before.)
Because of a lack of experience, it may seem that I don't know much about practices in general. However I think that endows me to speak on their behalf with detachment, from the perspective of a neutral observer more or less. If you've duly invested 15 years of your life pursuing meditation, why must you disparage and sabotage that investment? It has carried you to this point in your life, hasn't it? And you are where you are meant to be, is that not so? You will most likely continue putting one foot in front of the other, confronting whatever life gives you, as best you can.
I sort of fell into my present practice - if it can be called that. So I pay attention to my breath for one or two hours a day. It's not a real practice, as I understand the term practice, due to the fact it is engaged frequently, anytime of the day or night. It is more of a nonpractice, an ongoing practice. Which, by definition, is not a practice at all because it lacks structure and boundaries and time set aside for the doing of it. It is mentioned because something like this may appeal to you, something with less structure than what you're accustomed to.
Have you considered moving on, in appreciation of the level to which your meditation has brought you? Perhaps simply remaining present or being mindful would be more suitable for you at this stage of your path or nonpath.
Wishing you the very best as you carry on.
love
parvati
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2015 : 12:55:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by parvati9
(To BRC. Pardon, I don't get this and it may not apply to the topic under discussion. How can the unenlightened being presume to know what the enlightened being would be or claim to be, or do or say or think? But we've been down that road before.)
My comment is only based on my own (limited) personal experience, which shows me that when the ego returns the unity is gone. Maybe with practice I will move on and change my view, but I do feel logical argumentation would not help with this one.
As I have a feeling that logical argumentation would not help psysaucer either. He is having a bit of a rough time and if he says he needs to work it out on his own, I think we should honour that. Presenting counter-arguments often has the effect of driving feelings underground instead of keeping them 'on the table', accepting them and finding out what they have to teach you. My two penny worth.  |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2015 : 2:38:15 PM
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Hey Blue
Post got lost while replying to you which is just as well .. because this one is much shorter. Yes I agree, we should honor Psysaucer's intent to work this out. More than a few on this forum probably consider Yogani to be enlightened, or close to it. And imo Anthem as well. I hope this is somewhat consoling to Psysaucer.
love
parvati |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2015 : 6:29:16 PM
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I'm possibly the worst person to comment on this thread, but I'm not known for shying away from making controversial statements simply because they go against the grain.
In my experience, we can't do anything wrong. We aren't actually in control anyway, so stop worrying, enjoy this and every moment, and forget about trying to be somewhere you are not! Do meditation if you feel like you should. Stop doing meditation if you feel like you should. Watch yourself closely, don't be afraid to revamp your approach, and enjoy your life!
Totally not helpful I know. 
Love,
Carson |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2015 : 10:27:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
In my experience, we can't do anything wrong.
I agree, on the deepest level. Every mistake, every horrifying act, every labeled phenomenon, is still a part of the grand perfection which is our Being. We are dealing with shades of perfection here...infinite in scope. Some are quite gnarly and chaotic; others are more refined and heavenly; but all are undeniably One. |
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psysaucer
India
44 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2015 : 10:17:32 AM
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Hi parvati9,
Maybe I bailed out because I really had no argument to offer against what everyone was saying, while at the same time being so pathetically attached to my conviction that meditation/mindfulness can't take me any further than where I already am.
Phew...maybe I should just give it a break for a while and just chill out and smoke my pot
And since I have also been experiencing some minor memory loss along with what I believe to be some sort of a blockage or movement in the ajna/crown chakra, maybe this is more about something happening on the energy plane, something I cant mentally be conscious of or be in control, i dont know....so yes chill the f down and smoke my chillum for now  |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2015 : 2:37:35 PM
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| I think that's not a bad way to work it out. Just relax and re-think things. As for other people saying counterarguments won't help, he posted this topic on a yoga forum. I mean what kind of replies did you expect? But I do agree that they won't help, words seldom ever do. |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2015 : 08:47:11 AM
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BREATH I AM
In Stillness I Behold Thee
Inbreath Rushes Upward to Greet the Divine:
Namaste O Holy One
Outbreath Rains Down Amrita to Nourish
All The Parched Earth
Meeting Every Need
Embracing Every Tear
Gratitude Gratitude Overflows
For Thy Presence
In The Song of My Glorious Breath
O Life, O Love
Holy
Blessed
I Am
Forever
In Thy Heart
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2015 : 10:41:05 AM
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You can only start from when you are psysaucer.
You know that joke - the Englishman in Ireland asking for directions to Cork. An Irishman helpfully listens to his question and then repys "Hm, yes, well... You know, if I were to go to Cork, I wouldn't start from here."
Be with yourself fully in the present moment. Witness those frustrations and disappointments. The wisdom that will guide you the next step is there. |
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Krisandru
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2015 : 7:36:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by psysaucer
Maybe this question is coming out of frustration...but like everything else in this world, spiritual practices are bound to have their own flaws and limits. Yes, they can trigger intense life experiences and enrich the quality of one's life by a remarkable degree and maybe make someone live their entire life in the grip of bliss and beatitude I don't know.
But if the thing that you are obsessed with is 'truth'(whatever that may mean, if there is any such thing at all), if the big question for you is "what is this all about?", then why even bother doing this spiritual stuff.
I don't mean to dismiss the fact that there may be something immensely important about meditative and yogic practices, but after almost 15 years of practicing meditation and after having reaped at least some of its supposed fruits....all I am left with is absolute frustration. Not that I am depressed or in an existential crisis- none of that. But it feels like all the people who taught me to do this and promised eternal truth, the formless brahman and what not were just looking out for kicks, messing with their bodies so they could make themselves get stoned without drugs and call that samadhi or whatever.
Wow....let me tell you something but I'll try to be short this time because it looks like if I'm getting into details/serious matters here, my posts (or even worst my entire topic) will be deleted, as I experienced not too long ago.
You have arrived at a milestone that only a few people can arrive. All I can say is that from where you are you need an additional shock and your spiritual journey (has nothing to do with practice) might blossom in unexpected ways.
quote:
Originally posted by psysaucer
Is there anyone you guys know personally or on this forum(fat chance I know) who believe they got enlightened through spiritual practices. If you do, nothing would be more of a consolation for me than that to keep continuing my practices
Regarding that enlightened being that you are looking for, my personal advice is that you yourself have to find it even though its really hard to do so. Why? Because only enlightened beings can know for sure who is, or who is not enlightened. In our case (and all the rest of us) THE ONLY way to tell, is by the amount of knowledge that one has. That being said, if you can find a person that can answer almost every question that you have in enormous detail without any lag in his explanations, then that person can be helpful to you.
Now since you opened this topic I'd like to ask you, why would you wanna find an enlightened being? What would you ask if you would meet him? What do you wanna know that you don't know?
Please don't hesitate to communicate, maybe someone here can give you a really good advice.  
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Kentox
India
61 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2017 : 5:05:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by psysaucer
Maybe this question is coming out of frustration...but like everything else in this world, spiritual practices are bound to have their own flaws and limits. Yes, they can trigger intense life experiences and enrich the quality of one's life by a remarkable degree and maybe make someone live their entire life in the grip of bliss and beatitude I don't know.
But if the thing that you are obsessed with is 'truth'(whatever that may mean, if there is any such thing at all), if the big question for you is "what is this all about?", then why even bother doing this spiritual stuff.
I don't mean to dismiss the fact that there may be something immensely important about meditative and yogic practices, but after almost 15 years of practicing meditation and after having reaped at least some of its supposed fruits....all I am left with is absolute frustration. Not that I am depressed or in an existential crisis- none of that. But it feels like all the people who taught me to do this and promised eternal truth, the formless brahman and what not were just looking out for kicks, messing with their bodies so they could make themselves get stoned without drugs and call that samadhi or whatever.
Even the Upanishads tell that the Ultimate has finally got nothing to do with spiritual practices. That the leap from the form to formless can never be brought forth by any living being. So why bother?
If all you are looking for is some inner peace and (forgive me) getting naturally stoned, alright. But isn't it true that whatever you may experience as a result of meditation and yoga is as closer to realizing the truth as a drug induced experience is?
The aptly overlooked Indian thinker, UG Krishnamurti puts it better than anyone ever could
UG: What you do or do not do does not matter at all. Your practice of holiness, your practice of virtue -- that is socially valuable for the society, but that has nothing to do with this.
Q: Of course we are living in society; but as far as this goes -- enlightenment, realization or whatever you call it....
UG: Whatever name you use -- it is your word.
Q: ....it has nothing to do with it?
UG: It has absolutely nothing to do with it. Why, I sometimes go to the limit of saying that it is possible for a rapist, for a murderer, for a thief, for a convict, for a con-man -- this kind of thing can happen!
Is there anyone you guys know personally or on this forum(fat chance I know) who believe they got enlightened through spiritual practices. If you do, nothing would be more of a consolation for me than that to keep continuing my practices
Nothing to be frustrated about. Nothing at all.
If you don't wanna do practice, then dont. If you wanna go drink alcohol and do whatever and whomsoever you want...it is but your choice. Real spirituality isn't so fragile that it'll still not consider you anything more than a piece of life Whether you meditate 10 hours a day or a new guy who does less than 20 minutes, It doesn't matter.
Go on ahead, waste yourself in decadence of life. Live and enjoy each and every moment of it.
My only advice will be, live consciously...pleasure of materialistic nature however tempting, are limited but not your greed. You will never be satisfied ever in life. But it doesn't mean that one cannot enjoy it or they are evil and hideous things to be avoided...they are just limited.
Be straight with yourself, that's all that is needed to be spiritual. Rest is just nonsense added onto it. You don't need to be goody goody 24/7 nor need to quote a holy book for everything or control your diet your entire life to see a glimpse of spirituality.
The reason you are not reaching your end goal is because you are not yet straight with yourself. Once you achieve that there will be a silence in you. Lean onto it, you'll find the whole world inside you. There are no limits, no boundaries...that is the whole point of spirituality.
Just living life with absolute involvement is good enough. You'll feel ecstatic just by that alone. Don't push yourself through meditations or things you don't want to do and live however you want, but only consciously.
Nothing I said was something I didn't feel throughout my life.
If the Ultimate exists, what exactly isn't a path towards him?
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2017 : 07:05:42 AM
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Psysaucer, I hope you stay and pursue your questions here. You will find that the AYP crowd, while sometimes challenging, does none of this without the intention to understand and to assist, if possible. There is not a standard of concept or conduct here (you don't have to think what anyone else does here), except perhaps to understand the practices Yogani teaches.
But seeing that you described yourself as a seeker of "truth," you know how big a word that is! I would suggest to consider it in its breadth and not to ignore the not-yet-completed structures of knowledge and awareness that are already in the world. Perhaps you can see a few aspects of truth that draw you, such as people (literature and psychology), the physical realities that are apparent to our senses and minds (STEM), thought and thinking (mathematics and philosophy), and perhaps the emotional and perceptual language of the inner self in the world (art and music). I mention these as associated (in my opinion) with academic fields because they are ways of seeking achievement towards truth that are accessible, challenging, and engaging, and provide a complement to spiritual practices or growth.
I think spiritual growth (for me at least) takes work. To perform and practice physical yoga, daily meditation, pranayama and reflection are work, take time and represent an investment. I see the payback in my daily life. I don't know if I'll reach enlightenment (I yearned for it in my 20's) nor kundalini, but the journey has been much better with spiritual practices than without. |
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Spirituality has its own limitations so why bother
