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roboto212
USA
56 Posts |
 Posted - May 15 2015 : 2:49:52 PM
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Has anyone else gotten to a phase where intentional efforting or investigation with the mind is seen as unnecessary strain? There was a shift in my vipassana practice where doing anything with the mind cause mental strain and its most natural to just leave it be as it is. Even if there are disturbing emotions or unpleasant mindstates arising it seems that leaving the mind be is the path of least resistance.
Like now just sitting for meditation, mindfulness seems to just happen. There is still a major tendency for the mind to try try do do, trying this or that. Even this sense of letting go of effort is a sort of effort, seen as strain and so it automatically drops it more and more.
I don't do any AYP practices atm because I have to eat a very specific diet regimen or I overload to thr point of feeling crazy, so my practices atm are just sitting, some chanting (being careful not to overdue it) and light stretching.
I want to eventually return to AYP practices when my life situation allows those practices, But it seems things are developing by just sitting.
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2015 : 10:01:48 PM
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Hi,
I can relate to the feeling that doing anything outside of the "flowing-of-yoga,' outside the path, is exhausting. I am a high energy person, with good endurance, but I have found myself recently with a feeling of exhaustion when doing things away from the path. In the same time, going with the flow of spiritual life has been effortless. The entire experience is like a gentle guiding on the path.
I do not know where you are with your yoga practice. I wonder if you do samyama. Once you start doing samyama, you can use it to do insight practice, effortless, by releasing the inquiries into the stillness. And then, peacefully, you listen for the sillence to move and answer. It is amazing.
As you say, the mind tries to do things, but the best way to proceed is to surrender, to let it go. Follow your inside guru. Less is more.
I hope you feel better, and get back to practice soon.  
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2015 : 06:57:15 AM
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Hi roboto
To my experience, what you're describing is the opposite of what should happen as you progress in yoga - life becomes effortless, including mental activity. While the mind becomes quieter, when it does need to work, there is a lightness and easiness about it.
What Blanche is describing is lack of motivation for activities outside her spiritual interests. What you are describing sounds to me like exhaustion.
What is your calorie intake on a typical day? What is your body mass index? Have you paid attention to those recently? I very much hope I am wrong but, having read your post, I feel I should warn you. Anorexia is a serious condition my friend. Don't let yourself be drawn down that path.
Take care  |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on May 16 2015 07:07:57 AM |
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roboto212
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2015 : 12:48:16 PM
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Id say when the situations arise that require me to use my intellect that it just happens, not really too much effort.
What im trying to say is that.. to use an analogy ( which is prbabaly not the best analogy) , I would for the past 4 years do various meditative practices like vipassana via mahasi sayadaw style noting, intentional investigation of the sensations arising, or self enquiry of asking where is this sense of "I". Or other practices of entering the j hanic absorbtions, entering the witness state. All sorts of intentional manipulation of the mind in order to light up various parts to see them more clearly.
Now the analogy: my mind is now like a rubber band. And applying intentional effort in the way of investigating sense of I is seen as mental strain, like the rubber band stretching out of its natural state.. just leaving the mind be it relaxes into its natural condition which is free of strain or efforting. Its natural peaceful so trying to do anything with the mind is an effort and is going away from the very peace we are seeking.
I can still do all sorts of directing with the mind.. like accessing memory, and doing arithmetic etc...these things when they are necessary seem to just happen.. most of the time.. though my memory has been like sh*t lately.. the mind is reluctant to do anything but rest in its natural state
To answer your other questions: im 6 1' male 155lbs. 25 yo .. I eat about 3000cals a day of plant based foods , usually raw foods.. if you saw the volume of food I eat each day you wouldn't think I'm anorexic, even though I'm slim figure, ive been that way my whole life.
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roboto212
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2015 : 1:23:23 PM
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Side note: it seems like memory is very similar to the samyama practices here where you hold intention or thought to remember this or that.. release it into silence and Walla, the memory magically appears.. though sometimes not : / . Obviously samyama has a different purpose than what I just described.. but similar process of holding and releasing a thought into emptiness, and seeing what springs out of emptiness.
My mind has been feeling sort of like a vegetable lately lol.. a very calm blissful vegetable and is reluctant to do anything really.. people often ask me what i did earlier in the day and I honestly can't remember. Im sure if I really tried to remember I could, but its just nice leaving the mind be. |
Edited by - roboto212 on May 16 2015 1:39:01 PM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2015 : 05:00:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by roboto212
Side note: it seems like memory is very similar to the samyama practices here where you hold intention or thought to remember this or that.. release it into silence and Walla, the memory magically appears.. though sometimes not : / . Obviously samyama has a different purpose than what I just described.. but similar process of holding and releasing a thought into emptiness, and seeing what springs out of emptiness.
My mind has been feeling sort of like a vegetable lately lol.. a very calm blissful vegetable and is reluctant to do anything really.. people often ask me what i did earlier in the day and I honestly can't remember. Im sure if I really tried to remember I could, but its just nice leaving the mind be.
Just wondering, are you satisfied with your state? Can you function in daily life? I mean, it is very nice if you can leave the mind for what it is, but it is also a functional instrument for a human being. Forgetting everything immediately is not very handy in my opinion.  |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2015 : 10:33:31 AM
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Hi roboto212
Your BMI is within the healthy range. That is a relief. Perhaps you are just going though a phase when the mind is trying to get quiet.
One other thing to watch for of course is that you get all the essential nutrients from your vegan raw diet. Excluding whole groups of foods from one's diet can be tricky.
There is one experience I can relate that might be relevant to you. Some years ago I had difficulties with my brain activity (not related to yoga, as I wasn't doing much at the time). My concentration was not as good as it used to be and I could perceive a bit of a delay computing anything, as if my mind had trouble engaging with any new task. That went away completely when I rebalanced the fats in my diet. It turned out I was eating way too many unsaturated fats and especially polyunsaturates (yes, all those heavily advertised omegas).
With regards to your experience, if it boils down to "it's just nice leaving the mind be" then it's probably just a phase.
I don't know if the people on this forum can relate very easily to your experiences. We don't lead with diet in AYP. We lead with meditation and pranyama and the diet has to fit in with our practices and lifestyle. I personally can't imagine going though the kundalini experience I've had while at the same time eating raw vegan. No way! A gallon of full-fat milk a week was often not enough, not to mention all the butter, cheese (full-fat of course) and the occasional chicken and fish on days of raging hunger. I'm probably fairly typical. Here is a paragraph from Yogatattva Upanishad (thank you Blanche for pointing me to it when I was developing my dairy addiction )
“During the early stages of practice, food of milk and ghee is ordained” 46(b)-49
Hope this helps. All the best |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2015 : 11:04:16 AM
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Sounds like you are using prudent self-pacing, Roboto, and following the path of least resistance, which is optimal. Keep doing, or non-doing, what works for you. The best effort surely has an effortless quality. By the cadence and tone of your language and self-inquiry, it seems like you are abiding in The Flow. Godspeed on your journey.
(The AYP techniques aren't going to disappear anytime soon, so don't worry, the toolshed will be available for your discrimination and discernment if it ever feels comfortable to jump back in.  )
To each his His/Her own! |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on May 18 2015 09:32:44 AM |
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roboto212
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2015 : 1:01:39 PM
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Charliedog: Id say there isnt 24/7 mega bliss :0 ... there is a 24/7 background calm , even though emotional energy is still a very regular arising and passing occurrence. It seems even though emotional energy may be arising, that not trying to do anything with the mind, leaving it be with these phenomena arising is path of least resistance. Im satisfied with how things seem to be progressing. I have periods during the day where the mind realizes its already happy, and any doing its doing is going away from that...so much conditioning coming undone. Still doing formal sits, things seem to develop on their own... mindfulness just happens. Id also say im just as functional as those around me. I have periods of having no sense of agency, where Im watching myself do things and I seem to do a pretty good job most of the time. Though sometimes I wonder why I did this or that, as it isn't always in alignment with my hearts values.
Blueraincoat: I should mention that I only follow a specific diet when I was engaging in ayp practices, which im not doing atm. I still eat a plant based diet and feel completely satisfied with that. When engaging in AYP practices There is major overload if im not eating a specific diet schedule, and my life situation doesnt allow the specific diet schedule ... for now. I still have bhakti though and a desire to return to ayp practices when the timing is right. Im not worried though, things seem to be progressing regardless of those practices. I am curious though about how ayp practices will affect this unfolding that is happening :)
Bodhi Tree: Thank you! I sense ill engage with ayp practices again when timing is right. |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2015 : 02:03:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by roboto212
Charliedog: Id say there isnt 24/7 mega bliss :0 ... there is a 24/7 background calm , even though emotional energy is still a very regular arising and passing occurrence. It seems even though emotional energy may be arising, that not trying to do anything with the mind, leaving it be with these phenomena arising is path of least resistance. Im satisfied with how things seem to be progressing. I have periods during the day where the mind realizes its already happy, and any doing its doing is going away from that...so much conditioning coming undone. Still doing formal sits, things seem to develop on their own... mindfulness just happens. Id also say im just as functional as those around me. I have periods of having no sense of agency, where Im watching myself do things and I seem to do a pretty good job most of the time. Though sometimes I wonder why I did this or that, as it isn't always in alignment with my hearts values.
Hi Roboto,
Sounds wonderful, It is a change of perspective if you notice you can rest in the mind in stead of always be the doer. I can relate to that.
Just let the thoughts pass by, see the emotions and know that it is not you, resting in bliss, peace and harmony. And at the same time you see that everything is happening, all by itself... Thanks for sharing and enjoy |
Edited by - Charliedog on May 18 2015 03:35:20 AM |
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roboto212
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2015 : 01:48:37 AM
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Thought I'd update this thread a bit.
Things have continued to unfold over the last couple months regardless of having sporadic formal sitting practice. It seems life is the meditation now. I'm seeing how, now, the mind has certain habits while going through everyday life. It's seeing these habits as painful and unnecessary and life seems to drop them. It's like the hand realizing it's holding a hot coal and just automatically let's go cause it hurts. I'm also noticing how my body is involved in this letting go. My body seems to be becoming more open and less contracted over the last month's. It feels more at rest and open throughout the day, even with painful physical sensations occurring.
I read a thread on another forum once where a meditator described his mind as being like Teflon nonstickiness, that's how I would describe this mind here too. Much less grasping onto phenomena , things :just flowing through. This is really nice because going through painful experiences in life seems more effortless. How can disturbing emotions affect you if they seemingly arise and pass in the same instant.. It's almost as if they never really happened. One instant a heavy feeling or mindstate, it's seen as unnecessary fluff, and is dropped, leaving the mind unstained, clear, fresh, alert, calm and relaxed #128524; . That heavy emotion was a lifetime ago it seems.
There are periods during the day where there is recognition of Rigpa (dzogchen term for the natural state of the mind) it's as if I'm looking. Out at the world one instant, enjoying it's beauty, then next moment mind falls open and there is no longer anyone looking out at the world.. The world is looking at itself... There is a pure lucidity and perfect stable quality while having this view. If I leave be the experience seems to gather momentum and becomes more stable and wakefulness begins to dawn more.
That's the problem, as my mind has a habit of doing doing, so the view jab lost very easily. This recognition of rigpa happens many times during the day, sometimes just for a second or two, sometimes for up to a minute.. Various other practices seem to help stabilize the mind in this view, such as eating lighter and exercising like running to bring the nervous system into more relaxed state.
Anyways, love you all! |
Edited by - roboto212 on Jul 08 2015 02:11:33 AM |
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roboto212
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2015 : 01:57:24 AM
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| I'm gonna pick up ayp practices again as in the past I found them To make rigpa more stable. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2015 : 09:58:00 AM
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| Sounds like wonderful progress roboto212 |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2015 : 4:35:34 PM
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Hi Roboto,
Your making good progress by the sounds of things. Letting go of mechanical effort is an important step.
Best wishes,
J |
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colours
Sweden
108 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2016 : 11:07:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by roboto212
Charliedog: Id say there isnt 24/7 mega bliss :0 ... there is a 24/7 background calm...
Are you sure this is real? I have had the same experience of background calm, and have it still, but I also have the diagnosis of schizophrenia... Don't want to make you uncertain though. Just a heads up... |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2016 : 6:05:31 PM
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| That's very beautiful Roboto!! thank you for sharing |
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Effort Is Painful
