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JohnWL
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 20 2015 : 9:53:45 PM
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I tried to search for any past discussions here on this topic, but couldn't find anything. So, maybe this is common knowledge.
But apparently modern yoga asanas are not thousands of years old, nor are they even coming from any kind of spiritual tradition. They are basically just variations taken directly from 19th century European gymnastics programs. Here are some links about it:
http://www.yogajournal.com/article/...eater-truth/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sadie..._272821.html
http://www.innerliftyoga.com/blog/2...he-yoga-body
True traditional yoga is pranayama and meditation (without modern asana postures), just like Yogani says. So what does this mean about incorporating modern yoga postures into our spiritual practice? Do asanas really provide any real spiritual benefit, other than just promoting physical strength and flexibility? |
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Dogboy
USA
2197 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 06:18:47 AM
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| Asanas are a key tool for me in arousal of prana, so I personally don't care one bit how old the tradition. Like most my interest in yoga started with asana and better body awareness which led to directed attention (mindfulness). With meditation and the advent of kundalini, a few minutes of simple mountain, forward fold, even child's pose awakens the serpents. My yin classes are now fountains of bliss arousal; I am mindful to radiate it outward, samyama style, and have never overloaded as a result. It awakens me and the rest of my day in a fuller manner than meditation alone. |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 06:34:58 AM
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quote:
Asanas are a key tool for me in arousal of prana, so I personally don't care one bit how old the tradition. Like most my interest in yoga started with asana and better body awareness which led to directed attention (mindfulness). With meditation and the advent of kundalini, a few minutes of simple mountain, forward fold, even child's pose awakens the serpents. My yin classes are now fountains of bliss arousal; I am mindful to radiate it outward, samyama style, and have never overloaded as a result. It awakens me and the rest of my day in a fuller manner than meditation alone.
Hi JohnWL,
I feel the same about it as Dogboy  and can not express myself as good as he! Thanks,
AND I really love asanas......
Edit ; And I know that one person can experience the same asana as a physical work-out and the other person can feel the energie rise and be completely in bliss. it is an unique experience, it depends from experience and yoga skills. Do you practice pure physical or more energetic.
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Edited by - Charliedog on Feb 21 2015 07:34:36 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 06:53:16 AM
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Hi John
I have heard that most of the plethora of asanas known today are a recent creation, but I don't know how many of them, if any, come from ancient traditions. I completely agree - classes that teach asanas only and call themselves 'yoga' are far off the mark. The essence of yoga is working with the mind. At the beginning of his Yoga Sutras, Patanjali defines yoga this way - "Yoga is restraining the thought-streams natural to the mind / Then the seer dwells in his own nature" (1.2.-1.3.)
There has always been a concern with posture however. The same Yoga Sutras say "The eight limbs of Yoga are self-restraint in actions, fixed observance, posture, regulation of energy" etc (2.29).
I agree with Dogboy and Charliedog in that asans have their use. I am enjoying mine a lot more since restarting my meditation practice. Without meditation, I was getting to a point where they seemed pretty useless, but once the energy builds up, it's good to have a tool to help smooth it out.
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Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Feb 21 2015 07:13:22 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4370 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 07:18:27 AM
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Hi John,
Yogani teaches two asana sequences, a simple one and a more advanced one. The simple one is in his book about asana practice (Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas) on p26 where he describes a sequence including 12 asanas. In the Easy Lessons for Ecstatic living book 2 he describes a more advanced asana sequence.
As for the history of asana practice, it is a bit lost in the shadows of time. Various ancient texts refer to asana practice including the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali (approx. 1600 years old) where it is described as one of the eight limbs of yoga. Some other texts including the Goraksha Samhita (approx. 300 years old) refer to the classical 84 asanas taught by Lord Siva. The Hatha Yoga Pradipika (approx. 500 years old) refers to 15 asanas.
Interestingly most texts refer to 4 asanas as being very important, which are all seated asanas and amongst those, siddhasana is often referred to as being the most important. Which ties in with what Yoagni teaches.
I think the thing to remember is that Yoga has never been a fixed thing. It has always been changing and evolving with every new teacher adding some aspects and taking others away. There has also never been one yoga. Different teachers have taught different things in different places and have often had lengthy discussions which have been recorded about what was the true teaching and the true path. That has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years and the same is true today.
So asana practice has been evolving over the last few thousand years and still is. That is not a bad thing at all, but a good thing, as teachers can make improvements based on their own experiences. The British were in India for a long time and certainly would have had some influence on the development of yoga, apparently mostly with the more "gymnastic" developments such as "ashtanga vinyasa yoga". The classical asanas were classical asanas before the British entered India.
As to the benefits of asana practice beyond stretching the body and physical strength: Asana practice activates prana in the body. This means that it helps to purify the body and activate the chakras. Different asanas work in different ways on the subtle body and have a different effect in terms of purification. The whole science of asana practice is quite complex in terms of how each asana activates and purifies the body. The best thing to do is to do it, and over time you will begin to feel the spiritual benefits and how it works.
It is very beneficial to add asana practice to your spiritual practices at the beginning before pranayama.
Christi |
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Dogboy
USA
2197 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 09:09:13 AM
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I am never more the warrior than a Warrior 2; and Warrior 3, I'm Superman  ! |
Edited by - Dogboy on Feb 21 2015 09:10:15 AM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 12:47:08 PM
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| sitting poostures is all patajni talked about |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4370 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 2:03:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by adishivayogi
sitting poostures is all patajni talked about
Hi Adishivayogi,
Patanjali did not actually mention any specific asanas by name, sitting or standing or otherwise. He only said two things about postures, one is that they comprised one of the eight "limbs" of yoga (ashtanga), and the other is that they should be "steady and comfortable".
Christi |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 2:37:16 PM
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As I read it, the sitting position during meditation is all Patanjali cared about when it came to posture.
Makes me think not many asanas were around at the time. Which doesn't mean to say the evolution towards the variety we have today is not a positive development (as long as teachers remember asanas are not the central part of yoga) |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Feb 21 2015 2:38:32 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2197 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2015 : 4:40:28 PM
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Charliedog:
quote:
Do you practice pure physical or more energetic.
Unsure if this is directed to me or JohnWL, but my answer is yes . |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4370 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2015 : 05:06:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
As I read it, the sitting position during meditation is all Patanjali cared about when it came to posture.
Makes me think not many asanas were around at the time. Which doesn't mean to say the evolution towards the variety we have today is not a positive development (as long as teachers remember asanas are not the central part of yoga)
Hi BlueRaincoat,
Yes, Patanjali almost certainly used one or more sitting postures for meditation practice. What we don't know is what other asanas were being used as part of Ashtanga Yoga at the time.
And yes, it does seem that there has been a gradual increase in the number of postures being used in yoga over time up to the present day.
Christi |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2015 : 3:55:50 PM
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Hi,
Whenever I have been in India I have never seen anyone using any specific sitting posture for meditation or japa. Most simply sit cross legged with their feet tucked well behind.
L&L
Dave |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4370 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2015 : 5:28:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
Hi,
Whenever I have been in India I have never seen anyone using any specific sitting posture for meditation or japa. Most simply sit cross legged with their feet tucked well behind.
L&L
Dave
Hi Dave,
They could be using sukhasana or siddhasana. Sometimes when people are using siddhasana it can look as if they are just sitting cross-legged with their feet tucked in.
Christi |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2015 : 6:09:57 PM
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| the layers of our selves are many starting with body our vessel of the soul we penetrate this with control of our posture sitting, standing ,bending twisting,awareness rises ,we go from feeling musles to our skin from here to the subtle body this body has many layers inwards we go as far as we can reach in this life time ,from the outside to the inner world . |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2015 : 07:04:46 AM
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Beautiful described Kumar!
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2015 : 07:26:10 AM
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I don't think that we need to create separation between "traditional asanas" and "modern asanas". If the intent is in line with the goal of yoga, it does not matter if the asana you perform is 4000 years old or a very modern variation that your teacher has just tailored to your personal needs.
By the way, asanas (modern asanas) have been for me the main door into the world of yoga. I had some issues that needed an asana based approach. Back then, I think I woul not have been interested in an approach like AYP. I had to work on the gross level of body first. So, having around classes teaching modern asanas was very relevant for me. And I bet many practitioners in the West follow a similar path: first you try asana classes, and only after you look for more. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2015 : 2:34:21 PM
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Asanas teach concentration and the breath. They are the foundation of our sitting practices.
After all, the body is an extension of the mind. And much easier to access.
The seated asanas are the most advanced. You can think of the other asanas as preparation to sit, if you like. |
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Prem
Canada
90 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2015 : 08:41:16 AM
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| That's interesting! My two cents' worth...The asanas have a purpose - because anyone who has done asana long enough I hope! will begin to be drawn inward - not all yogis are though just look at bad boy Bikram. Some never progress beyond the asanas - maybe it's their karma. The body - asana - it's a portal to the inner layers - asanas have also kept my nearly 60 y/o body relatively strong and pain free (I came to yoga with arthritis and high emotional stress). Asanas brought me profound healing after two deaths in the family and kept me away from pharmaceuticals. So I don't agonize about where they originate although it's interesting. Asanas are not an end in themselves - just know when I've completed my asana portion, my body is relaxed, I feel patience and love, my spirit is open, My mind has become one pointed and I'm very ready for my bandhas, SP, DM etc. Asanas are the draw that get people to classes and after some time pull them deeper into AYP. We are a very physically based culture where it seems to be all about physical experience. We have to begin somewhere!. So I say yes they do provide real spiritual benefit but not immediately and perhaps never if you're not "ready". As my guru often said "you can do postures all day and all night, if your head is not screwed on correctly they won't do you a bit of good" Thanks for sharing your thought provoking post! |
Edited by - Prem on Mar 04 2015 09:37:51 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2015 : 09:40:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Prem
Asanas are not an end in themselves
But a beautiful start of a journey!
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Prem
Canada
90 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2015 : 2:52:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog
quote:
Originally posted by Prem
Asanas are not an end in themselves
But a beautiful start of a journey!
Amen to that Charliedog! |
Edited by - Prem on Mar 04 2015 3:01:28 PM |
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thezuck
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2015 : 4:16:03 PM
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From my experience, asanas seem to be a manifestation from the nervous system to release blockages and tensions, allowing for much deeper meditative states. During my DM practice, I find the body automatically moving into versions of the more common asanas as a way to help along energy flow.....spinal twists, backbends etc.
Isn't it likely that asanas evolved from early practitioners working on their spiritual practices and observing the nervous system's natural tendencies to adjust the physical form? Then teaching these to others as the poses/exercises that help release and refine the attention?
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Dogboy
USA
2197 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2015 : 4:21:56 PM
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quote:
Isn't it likely that asanas evolved from early practitioners working on their spiritual practices and observing the nervous system's natural tendencies to adjust the physical form? Then teaching these to others as the poses/exercises that help release and refine the attention?
Most likely, Mr Zuck! |
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Topic |
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Asanas Are 19th Century European Gymnastics?
