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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 27 2014 : 10:40:18 PM
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I have been following this system of yoga for 4 years and I beleive to have discovered Self-Pacing 6 months ago. I beleive the language of the instruction is misleading to what I beleive to be the
correct meditation practice (unless ofcourse it was intentional to have me figure out self pacing and correct meditation through trial and errors, or excessive purification and balanced
purification interchangbly, respectively) And, I'd like to nail down the precise language for the procedure so as to pass it on when the time comes to do so if it ever does, and not have this
confusion in my instructions. So, I have a question regarding meditation and the instruction. The questions are below, but let me explain what led me to beleive the instruction could be better:
Every couple months I would come back to reread instructions and align my practice to the instructions because as time passed by the sitting practice I did a day after reading was different from
the one that it evolved to months later. Tenseness and favorable silence swayed repetitions from 1 second apart to minutes apart. Sometimes it was easy and effortless seconds later, other times
minutes later, and randomly pleasurable: ecstacy somtimes othertimes without. So, because the practice changes, I have come back for clarification on the instructions of meditation countless times
and have always been confused as to the correct procedure, in spite of the positive changes I've derived from it, correct or not,or by accident or not. (Should I wait to pick up the mantra or
should I continue in spite of Discomfort in the forehead?, if the answer is wait to pick up the mantra then why doesnt the instructions say so in plain english?)
About 7 months ago and before then with my previous understanding, to "repeat continuously easily and effortlessly" was hard and required effort because it caused tenseness in the forehead.
But I was sure I was following the instructions, because I was trying to repeat it effortlessly and easily, although it wasn't so! My mantra if outloud would be like this: "iam [seconds later,
with thoughts and the previous mantras impression] iam [still thinking of the mantra] iam [thoughts] iam" and tenseness at every repetition. My aim was to repeat it, and to try to do it as easy
and effortless as possible, that endeavor lead me to tenseness in the forehead every time.
About 6 months ago I stopped what I understanded to be 'repeating the mantra easily and effortlessly' autonomously, and instead was letting the mantra go (didnt repeat it) and picked it up
when I would be sure I would not tense up picking it up/repeating it . I realized I was calmer after meditation during the days after the change, the problem is I was sure I wasn't following the
instructions because i wasnt repeating it, i was letting it go. (so you guessed it: I came back, reread and began tensing myself trying to repeat it easily and effortlessly thinking "theres gotta
be away to do it easily and effortlessly!")
So, two observations before my questions: When I repeat it continuously it is not always easy, I experience 'kundalini' or ecstatic feelings which are very pleasurable, I notice myself tensing up
my face simultaneously with each mantra as mentioned before and I realize this isn't proper self pacing. At other times it is easy and effortless and very pleasurable and very rare! These rare
times usually happen when I come back to reread after a calm few months of consistent balanced meditation and self pacing. The former common experience of tenseness and uneasyness with the same
exact practice goes against the instruction 'repeat it easily and effortlessly' because its producing tenseness or stress to the forehead and it isnt easy. To my understanding, 'easily and
effortless repetitions' means comfortable, and comfortable repetitions are achievable when I let time pass so the next repetition (Which is the original IAM.) isn't tensing my face.
Although a relaxing, and rewarding effort, waiting is an effort because I am doing it, that is waiting, instead of the mantra. It is a doing of not doing... [wait i think i just had an epiphany.
I cant beleive I said that (it is a doing of not doing)], (and the instructions say "effortlessly", yet effortlessly takes waiting which isnt repeating) I am splitting hairs with these
instructions here because I've been at it four years, and I must make sure I am doing it correctly, and can explain it correctly. Its reasonable right?
and second observation: Self pacing justifies my waiting to repeat the mantra to bypass discomfort. But. The instructions, or the language of the instructions are on my Concience saying "you're
doing it wrong!"
"and begin to repeat it easily and effortlessly in your mind " implies both: I should wait until I am comfortable, and should not wait to repeat the mantra at a time when I am comfortable.
"begin to repeat implies repeat the mantra until you lose it, vs pick up the mantra and wait to lose it and
"easily and effortlessly" implies to wait until it is easy and comfortable and effortless vs even if it is uncomfortable. Unless of course waiting is considered favoring the mantra (and if
that was the case, as a beginner I did not connect the dots from "favor the mantra" to "wait until you can repeat the mantra comfortably without discomfort" and other beginners shouldn't be left
to guess either!)
its like "repeat it" and "easily and effortlessly" are complete opposites in practice!
kind of like stand up and sit down. its one then the other; not one AND the other. yes? no?
1. Is 'the waiting' another "thing" that I should favor the mantra over?
2. Or is 'the waiting': favoring the mantra?
3. Do I have to find a way to continue repeating in a way that is easy and effortless ? EDIT:Revised question: The question is Do i have to find a way to
'continue repeating in a way that is easy and effortless[in spite of my discomfort]?" or better yet: having understood my nervous systems reaction, namely the tenseness in the forehead when I do
not 'wait' to repeat the mantra after some time, is there another way that does not require me to wait and that does not give me blockages/tenseness? seeing as waiting goes against favoring the
mantra (or is the word 'favoring' the same as 'waiting for the right time' which is question 2)
4. Does " do not hang on to or focus but favor the mantra." mean wait for the proper time (when you are comfortable) to repeat the mantra?(question 2 reworded)
I think the answers for 1 is. no 2 is yes 3 is no EDIT: for the revised question I obviously think the answer is no, but is there another way? and 4 is yes. Am I right?
And if that is so, then the instructions are: not wrong per say, they've gotten me this far and I am thankful for them being available, but: are a bit contradicting and I would be forever sad if
they mislead or confuse other beginners.
So I am proposing these new instructions for the website, assuming my own answers are correct, to not confuse others such as myself on the correct practice and are also asking for your
critisism as to its correctness because I plan on teaching my daughters and wonder questions 1,2,3, 4 and whether this procedure and my conclusions are correct:
Once you have gotten comfortable, slowly close your eyes. You will notice thoughts, streams of thoughts. That is fine. Just observe them without minding them.After about a minute, gently
introduce the thought …I AM… You will eventually realize this has happened: your mind wanders off into other thoughts, and/or you will also have periods where you are not repeating the
mantra but are aware of having just repeated it, in these two circumstances wait until you realize that you are absent of both: thoughts and awareness of having repeated it, then gently repeat it, and if it wasn't gentle and absent of tenseness, then you weren't absent of the mantra and/or thoughts yet. The goal is not to stay on it after repeating it, or repeating it with tenseness.The goal is to follow the simple procedure of thinking the mantra,waiting over thoughts and awareness of having repeated the mantra, losing it, and repeating it when you find yourself comfortable.
Edit: I also consider the possibility that Yogani purposely left the instructions vague so as to leave the true practice of meditation =self pacing to be be discovered
by a level of bhakti (bhakti that pushes you to continue practice in spite of difficulties) where the practitioner following the instructions says 'screw the repetition, let me get some rest in between and avoid difficulty/tenseness' hence discovering autonomous self pacing like I did. I suppose this is my ultimate question. [i]Is the instruction vagueness intentional? ( and by the same coin: are specific and accurate instructions counterproductive to the discovery of selfpacing?) |
Edited by - Jayleno214 on Oct 28 2014 05:11:08 AM |
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jusmail
India
491 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2014 : 12:25:06 AM
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| You could even consider mantra enhancement to go deeper. As regards waiting, more knowledgible people sould be able to help you out. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2014 : 02:24:51 AM
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You made an excellent post, and I yet have to read it over more carefully.
My first reaction to your question to yogani is: I do not think that yogani left this out intentionally. It is just very difficult to describe the process of thought, the mantra, the easily favoring. Because the mantra inevitably becomes the thought.
Again, very good post, and I expect that yogani chimes in here !
Wolfgang |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2014 : 02:29:56 AM
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| Another point for discussion: for your question 3 the answer is Yes in my opinion. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2014 : 04:35:55 AM
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We had an extensive debate on this subject a couple of years ago. See below:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=9738
Yogani reiterate the correct technique on this thread.
Jayleno - Have you experienced an improvement in the quality of your daily life? Self-pacing is good but self-pacing taken to an extreme will slow down your progress. A little tenseness and discomfort we can live with. Extreme discomfort we self-pace by cutting back on the time spent in meditation or SBP.
For the over-sensitive, there are alternatives available. Have you read this lesson?
http://www.aypsite.org/367.html
Good luck in your practices
Sey 
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2014 : 06:30:15 AM
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quote:
A little tenseness and discomfort we can live with
Thank you for the thread and response. This is what I was asking.
Consider the thread closed.
My answer is: continue repeating the mantra. Literally repeating it with attention on it, continuously.
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2014 : 07:29:13 AM
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Hi Jayleno
quote:
Originally posted by Jayleno214
I to "repeat continuously easily and effortlessly" was hard and required effort because it caused tenseness in the forehead.
Yogani says that in situations like his, when discomfort or a strong sensation/emotion gets in the way, what you need to do is allow your attention to be with that discomfort/emotion/sensation till it subsides and you can go back to easily picking up the mantra.
It is true this instruction is not in Lesson 13, but in some later lesson.
quote:
Originally posted by Jayleno214
"easily and effortlessly" implies to wait until it is easy and comfortable and effortless vs. even if it is uncomfortable. Unless of course waiting is considered favouring the mantra (and if
that was the case, as a beginner I did not connect the dots from "favour the mantra" to "wait until you can repeat the mantra comfortably without discomfort" and other beginners shouldn't be left to guess either!)
It seems to me that being comfortable throughout practices is a strong theme that comes back again and again in Yogani's lessons. On the other hand it is difficult to specify exactly where 'discomfort' begins. IMO this is best left to each practitioner to decide; some trial and error may be involved. As Sey rightly points out, if you aim to avoid every single uncomfortable sensation, you will dramatically slow down your progress.
I'd say your experience is not uncommon, we all develop our own detailed meditation instructions based on Yogani's teaching and our own practice experience. To a new practitioner, I would recommend reading all the lessons in AYP Volume 1, as useful hints about meditation technique come up in later lessons. There are even some Q&As about meditation in Volume 2. It's worth looking through the index and finding these lessons. |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 02:44:33 AM
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Hi. I learned my mistake was samyama type letting go of the mantra repetitions at every repetition thus having minute-plus space-time between repetitions in the name of self pacing. ANDlearned the precise operative instructions language: back to back repetitions of the mantra and no letting go of the action of repeating the mantra.
My problem is this: this is not in the lessons. And my question is this: i want to teach my daughters the practice. Is the result of someones meditation going to be the one intended by ayp if they follow the instruction " repeat the mantra back to back and never let go of the act of repeating the mantra"? |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 08:40:04 AM
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Hi Jayleno
"Easily picking up the mantra when you realise you've lost it" is definitely not the same as "not letting go of the action of repeating the mantra". Yogani says you should not cling to the mantra (again it's not in Lesson 13 but further into the AYP Volume 1). The mantra should not be used to repress the contents of the mind. Thoughts and emotions will come up and that is part of the process.
Yogani does not prescribe the frequency with which the mantra is to be repeated. This varies from meditator to meditator and even from one meditation session to another. The whole point is to let everyone fall into the rhythm that feels right for them at the time.
I too would want to get the instruction spot on before teaching somebody else how to meditate, but you mustn't be too prescriptive. Everyone has to find their own rhythm. Giving an instruction like 'wait' makes the process too complicated.
It is possible that you were a sensitive meditator - instead of cutting back on the length of the sessions you introduced this 'wait' step as a self-pacing tool. It worked for you, but it is not part of Yogani's instructions and I would not pass this instruction onto somebody else.
My recommendation would be to let your daughters have Yogani's instructions in Lesson 13 plus the following two points, which he makes in further lessons:
- The frequency of the mantra repetition is whatever feels right/comfortable for you.
- If any strong emotion or sensation (including discomfort) comes up and interferes with the process of repeating the mantra, let your attention be with that emotion/sensation till it subsides and you feel you can easily pick up the mantra again.
I hope this helps. |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Oct 29 2014 08:46:17 AM |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 12:26:25 PM
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Thank you again and especially for your Continued dialouge.
Your last post sets me back to where i was before i made the thread. Im passionately confused and willing to find out how to proceed.
I completely understand the need for universal-aimed-at-the middle-of-the-bell-curve type of instruction. That means 98%of everybody. 1% top of bell curve and 1% on bottom. i suppose iam that 1% and why i find the instructions contradicting and your post as well cor that matter. Let me explain so as to give you information you need to help me.
You mentioned what i disclose in the thread. Which is that at different points in time, days later after ive corrected the practice to back to back repetitions or holding on, which os precisely what it feels like, i tended to go for the smoother lax 'experience' of letting time pass in between the mantra because it felt better and was definetly more comfortable especially because i was not getting tenseness in the face particularly the forehead.
Now i would justify that type of priority, letting the space, as self pacing, as you accurately mentioned. I knew i had to repeat the mantra while waiting, also thoughts came into the picture. But it all flew under the name of self pacing. This was okay with me and i wasnt confused. This is my comfortable personal pace as you call it. But it osnt repeating the mantra, and im aware of that while im waiting, but its the only way i wont tense up! Moreover, until i came bacj to reread instruction and read 'repeat easily and effortlessly" which threw me off balance fir two reasons: i wasnt repeating it , and secondly it wasnt easy or effortless, which sounds like mechanical repetitionsto me. If i try to repeat it, or back to bqck, what i call hanging on, and perhaps i need elaboration on difference between hanging and j to back, it requires effort and not only that but like i said i thought that was a no-no, hanging on that is. I tried it now, back to back, after reading the linked thread above and it is okay. A labourous affair to keep my attention on it for sure, and easy, sure, very rapid, yes, still somehow losing it automatically which was magical, big relief, yes. But bygolee this wasnt in the lessons, why doesnt it say hang on to the mantra or repeat it back to back?
I cant speak for others but i can set the tempo of repetitions. I do that. Always. I interpret what you say above to let it be comfortable tomean that i can stay in lax mode of repetitions, which is to let samyama type letting go to achieve the relaxed forehead. Precisely because i can set the tempo. On the other hand i can continue back toback for the 20 minutes. I can also tempo it anywhere inbetween. So i need exact instructions on the tempo because the interpretation of the instructions, which by the way i detailed in the Original post, can go both ways: aimed at comfort or aimed at repetition. For me it rarely is both at once, i mention that also, but im more concerned abou 99% of the other times when its nonextraordinary meditation when its one or the other AND one THEN the other. I must also mention that when i ramp up to SB things do go smoother. I realize the kundalini helps avoid tenseness no matter what the tempo, especially back to back, in fact i keep the pleasure of kundalini present with back to back repetitions when ive done comfortable SB. However i shy away from relying on SB to alleviate this whole matter because i self pace on SB because some days, and ive learned to tell when it will be pleasurable and when it will be a drag through clogged pipes, i feel like a clogged pipe. The measure by the way is whether or not i am upset, or with kundalini/sliht pleasure in my testes. Both these produce pleasureable SB, and easy and effortless repetitions. But please remember that that is not the problem im experiencing. Its the times i dont do SB because i wont get pleasure because i dont have energy in the testes or are upset. And even without this new SB variable disclosed above. The same tempo options are available to me that 1% of the time when there can be no wrong type of meditation experience. I need you to be more specific or perhaps someone who understands my current experience, to elaborate on these three specs of electrons which to me are jupiter scale: self pacing, repeating, and easy and effortless. They all ask for different things at times when i dont have pleasurable SB to accompany meditation. self pacing calls for comfort which calls for samyama during meditation. ( should i instead interpret this to mean shorter time?) repeating calls for hanging on ( which proved to lose itself in spite of my "hanging") and easy and effortless calls for selfpcing.
I thnk that those words, easy and effortlessly, were placed to protect oneself as an instructor against people who would sue or otherwise complain to say " i hurt myself doing ayp". I HAVE derived benefits. Im wise enough to say instead Perceived Benefits. Im not going to sue or complain and can take a little pain. But i can go both ways in this and i beleive the instructions can be interpreted both ways as well.
Which way is the right way? |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 12:33:45 PM
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Im on cellphone and im sorry for missspelling and punctuation and doubleposting vs editing.
Another good point: picking up the mantra when youve lost it IS the SAME as repeat the mantra and dont let go of the action of repeating because i still manage to lose the action, thus im mantraless for a moment and must now act again to repeat the mantra.
I find this wording to be more precise of my cirrent understanding of the correct meditation procedure as prescribed by yogani. The question is: is it? |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 1:32:02 PM
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Ive just completed my morning meditation with the above-linked-threads back2back meditation instruction. Or what i call hanging on meditation. I experienced different occurances throughout it that i will npt mention because i know its scenery and rest assured it was not uncomfortable. Most importantly i feel giddy, ready for the day, and lightweight; and i wouldnt ask for anything else. (well maybe the rapture of pleasure that is the scenery of SB and Yoni khumbaka) i must point out that it feels just like my gym workouts where i pick up the weight and continue picking it up time after time no matter he pain( although i might quickly lower the weight and continue). Does this sound right? I dont want a "well it isnt riht or wrong because everyone is different and has their own pace" answer because i can set the pace and for me its simply a matter of choosing the pace.
What say you? |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 2:45:35 PM
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Hi Jayleno214:
When we first learn to meditate, it is not unusual to feel like we have to be doing something extra with the mantra, with the procedure, hold on to something, set the pace, fight our way through, fall back and wait, like a general running an army on the battlefield. It would not be an exaggeration to say that for some of us, using the mantra with a fixed rhythm as a "battering ram" has happened, especially in the early days. It does not work like that. None of those strategies have anything to do with deep meditation. But most of us have to go through them before we finally surrender to the natural process that can occur in us, if we would only let it.
Here we are several years later in your case, and maybe things are coming to a head. Maybe time to end the war? The best advice you can get on meditation is what others have been saying above. Let it go as it will and don't try to make your meditation session into a campaign or a mental gymnastic routine. The more we try to "fix" it, the less effective it will be, not to mention frustrating.
The art is in the letting go and easily picking the mantra back up as faint as it may be whenever we become aware we have wandered off. That's it. With that, we go naturally deeper and deeper. Thoughts and sensations can be there at the same time. If any of it becomes too much, then just relax for a few minutes during your session and let the attention (witness) be drawn to the sensation without any intention to do anything. Then back to the mantra when the intense experience eases up. If it stays too intense for whole sessions, then think about reducing the time of your practice sessions for a while and see how that goes.
As you know, we have help for over-sensitivity in Lesson 367. You will find what works best for you.
Make sure to take plenty of rest before getting up from meditation -- 5-10 minutes lying down if feasible. That is for a smooth transition to regular activity, which is where the lasting results of our practice will be found. Meditation sessions themselves can be anything, and we just continue with the simple procedure. If we are finding more peace, creativity and energy in daily activity, that is the fruit, the true measure of our practice.
If you can develop the habit of easily picking up the mantra without a predetermined plan on what it must be, then all will be well. And, no, none of the instructions are about me or what I may need, except for all practitioners to find good progress on their path on their own terms, with comfort and safety. That goes for all of AYP. We are providing the best tools we can in the most flexible and open format we can. The rest is up to each practitioner.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 4:49:15 PM
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I gotta say that the meditation mist be working because i let go of the desire to reply and just go on about my day and look forward to the next meditation at least 10 times per reply, but the next meditation is inevitable and so are its contents under the hood. I must open this discussion one more time, and the hood, to make sure im not going to break my metaphoric car, or have my transmission in reverse so to speak.
You still didnt answer my question. You introduced another variable, the favoring of the naturally fainter mantra, if at all fainter.
But what of the picking the mantra up? Faint or not?
You say to let it go as it will. Mine goes to the samyama type of waiting, at these times i find myself at a crossroad where i know iam not favoring the mantra bit favoring the silence.
Reading your post leaves me with a question about the [ram] & [back to back] & [repeat] & [pick up] concepts.
1. Arent the ram concept and the back to back repeating with no favoring the naturally fainter mantras the same idea? I missed the part of this fainter processwhere we aim to pick up the mantra at its most faint-subtle level. In my defense: this isnt in lesson13, the lesson i come back to for reassurance after a couple months of not visiting ayp. I suppose this is whay you mean by "easy and effortless", and it could pass as a synonym after extensive clarification such as this one. But never otherwise, hence this thread.I just relate better to the word 'faint' over 'easy and effortless'.And i must say i did in fact forget this because i was intentionally repeating each next mantra louder than the one before it, simply to comply with the 'back to back' repetition' instructions, and simultaneously avoid avoid the samyama-like waiting before the next repetition, which by the way i thought was unram and unhang- like. I was thinking about the current mantra milliseconds after repeating it so i said the next mantra louder so as to favor it, and not the it, the mantra that is, that i just repeated, and on and on. Never minding subtle levels, that made louder repetitions harder, about 13 minues into the practice.
2. I understand that we do not set the pace or tempo and we pick it up when we find we are off of it. I am not setting any tempo, but that doesnt mean there is jo tempo. I let it be what it is and i can describe it after the 20 minutes are up. And there are two tempos that happens in two very different ways, and I thought i got my answer when i read your backtoback response. Which now, by the way, i interpret to mean: back to back repetitions of naturally fainter and fainter levels of the mantra. Then theres the, as per your words, that describe my origonal posts practice at the time (yesterday), samyama type of waiting to repeat the next mantra. Rewritten as: picking up the mantra and notpicking up the mantra for some time then picking it back up once ive lost it, which is when i think OH SNAP, ive been long enough without it. This method im focused on losing it, not repeating it, and i can assure you it happens on its own, i cant force the time it takes to get that " OH!! Ive been without".
Arent both of these non intentional tempos still following the instructions "repeat the mantra easily and effortlessly" plus "at naturally fainter levels" |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 5:08:17 PM
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Sorry for above post. Im on a phone and its a bhakti practice just trying to post with all the difficulty of navigating through it.
I posted prematurely before proofreading.
In a nutshell. Bottom line. Once and for all and until i come back for making sure im on track again:
1. do i have to realize that i have been without the mantra to repeat the mantra?
AND
2. Do i have to keep repeating the mantra ceaselessly without first losing it.
in yes or no answers please and only answer both or none at all in the format : 1: yes/no 2:yes/no
Any other response and ill end up more confused. |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 6:11:00 PM
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To justify the end all be all questions above: you say to not have strategies, and i hate that because that leaves me in the valley while ur in he mountain top saying yo"you just gotta walk". I reply "but there are two roads" and you keepsaying " just keep walking" .
And i buy that. Until i reread "dont hang on to it" which eliminates road one and "repeat it easily and effortlessly" which eliminates road two. And im here again asking how do i climb?!
Lets start with the above posts questions please
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Dogboy
USA
2198 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 7:52:28 PM
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| Some valleys are just too deep to climb out of. Maybe Guru can help you out of this one. |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 7:59:55 PM
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I just finished my second sitting with SB for 5 min because i felt sexual energy in my testes. And after the mantra turned into an impulse wih no sound the asvini mudra began to repeat with th mantra impulse. Soon after i was filled from beneath with pleasurable sensations a whilst continuing the impulses. Then i returned ti audible mantra repetitions and felt the vibrations of he mantra move the sensations. Needless to say it was a great meditation, first time this has hwppened for more than a moment, mainly because i would move away from such expwriences because the instructions said to favor th mantra, that by the way werent subtle impulses but audible repetitions, and thats mentally audible by the way. I'd like to mention that id always, like 2 years ago always, have had he mantra so baked in so as to be able to go as subtle as an impulse, but again, because of the instructions i would go back to an mentally audible mantra, never once taking "easy and effortlessly" to refer to an impulse, which really, by definition, is in fact easy and effortless. Haha. Who knew.
I expect validation so as to make sure the abive experience and disclosure of the impulse mantra is right practice. Since these pleasureble experienxes are surfacing then i must be on the right track, right?
EDIT: the method i used by the way was no waiting to lose it. Back to back steadyrepetitions until i chose its impulse over the audible mantra. |
Edited by - Jayleno214 on Oct 29 2014 10:47:59 PM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2014 : 11:02:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jayleno214
Sorry for above post. Im on a phone and its a bhakti practice just trying to post with all the difficulty of navigating through it.
I posted prematurely before proofreading.
In a nutshell. Bottom line. Once and for all and until i come back for making sure im on track again:
1. do i have to realize that i have been without the mantra to repeat the mantra?
AND
2. Do i have to keep repeating the mantra ceaselessly without first losing it.
in yes or no answers please and only answer both or none at all in the format : 1: yes/no 2:yes/no
Any other response and ill end up more confused.
Hi Jayleno214:
The answer to both questions is no, and there are specific reasons. I can go into them if you like, or we can just leave it for now.
The less we analyze, the better. If you continue with daily practice, the process of meditation will refine naturally over time and your own experience will reveal more to you than anyone else ever could.
You are doing fine. Carry on!
The guru is in you.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2014 : 12:59:29 AM
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 Has our beloved Yogani surrendered??!
Dear Jayleno,
As to teaching your daughters meditation, here's the lesson:
http://www.aypsite.org/256.html
Sey
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2014 : 01:52:56 AM
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In the same way that sugar dissolves in water, the mantra dissolves and merges with the tranquil ocean of consciousness which we are. The process is refinement. If I pluck a string on my guitar, it will reverberate for a little while but ultimately return to silence. If I roll a stone on the ground, it will inevitably stop its motion. So it is with the mind. Its natural state is to be still, at rest. Refining (easily favoring the mantra) helps the mind come to rest.
Attentive relaxation. Calm, abiding awareness. Soft concentration. These are qualities which Deep Meditation cultivates. And the cultivation occurs because layers are gently peeled off, the soil is mildly plowed, and the water of the river rounds off the edges of jagged stones in its own bed.
Thoughts may be there, but like clouds in a distant sky, they are further away. This is the glory of the witness.
OK. That's probably way too many metaphors, but I couldn't resist. Godspeed. And, most of all, take 'er easy.  |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2014 : 02:50:58 AM
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Haha. @dogboy
@yogani the instruction regarding naturally fainter levels of the mantra did it for me as described above. Full of pleasure and still picking up the mantra that made it possible. The whole issue of lose it first or repeat till yoi lose it and pock it up again was moot in light of my last experience. Thank you. |
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Jayleno214
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2014 : 01:46:55 AM
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Since my last post ive undergone changes within DM. Thanks to the quotr" meditation is not defined by the presence of the mantra but by the favorung of it with attention"
I consider that to be "hanging on" and that is why just now i allow myself to repeat the mantra and have ecstatic experiences. I also learned after orgasmic meditation that balqnce and moderation of bhakti are more important than the lure of pleasure becauae of the following letdown.
This talks about this post " Again and again, we see people arriving in the AYP community, continuing to explore 100 different strategies, even when they happen to be standing in the middle of a super highway, where all they have to do is step on the gas and go. The journey can be convoluted like that because human karma is convoluted. But the path does not have to be convoluted. A path can be straight-forward and clearly marked. As long as a path is there in plain sight, people will find it. That is the simple premise in AYP, flowing through an engineer's mentality: Build it and they will find it"
I used to come back for only one lesson. Now i realize that the full instruction with all angles covered spans all 400 lessons. I urge anyone with doubts to read them all. And thqnk you Yogani for this resource. The guru is indeed within me. It took ayp to discover it. |
Edited by - Jayleno214 on Nov 12 2014 02:07:30 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2014 : 12:15:47 PM
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Hello Jayleno214
It's wonderful you've got into the right groove with your meditation.
I too love that Lesson 423 from which you quote. |
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Suggested Correction on Meditation Instructions
